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Windows Forum / Internet Explorer / General Topics / February 2008Session Handling and tabbed browsing
Session handling is not right when you are using tabbed browsing. It appears that each instance of ie7 maintains a single session for all tabs - destroy the session in tab a and the session being used in tab b is also destroyed. The net effect being that loggin out of a web site in tab a logs you out of all your other open web sites. However, having each web site open in a completely seperate window and each one has an independant session so logging out on one web site has no effect on another. This surely is wrong and each tab should maintain it's own unique session so that tabs work like seperate windows that are 'docked'. > Session handling is not right when you are using tabbed browsing. It > appears [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > so > that tabs work like seperate windows that are 'docked'. The tabs all use the same instance of IE, saving some memory. For a different session cookie you need a different instance of IE and therefore a different IE window.  SignatureFrank Saunders, MS-MVP OE/WM http://www.fjsmjs.com Answer in newsgroup. Don't send mail. > > Session handling is not right when you are using tabbed browsing. It > > appears [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > different session cookie you need a different instance of IE and therefore a > different IE window. Exactly - rather defeats the object of having the tabs. Other tabbed browsers (eg firefox and opera) give a seperate session for each tab so that the tabs are independant of one another which makes a lot more sense. Shout Telecoms Limited schrieb am Wed, 22 Nov 2006 04:38:02 -0800: > Exactly - rather defeats the object of having the tabs. Other tabbed > browsers (eg firefox and opera) give a seperate session for each tab so that > the tabs are independant of one another which makes a lot more sense. I disagree. If you log out from a website that means you want to log out. If you don't want to log out then don't log out. BTW: I just tried with Firefox and it shares session cookies as well. Kai SignatureHelpsites about Windows: http://www.mvps.org IE repair script: http://iefaq.info > Shout Telecoms Limited schrieb am Wed, 22 Nov 2006 04:38:02 -0800: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Kai Yes - if you want to log out of a web site then you want to log out - however if you read my post thoroughly you will see that the problem is logging out of a web site logs you out of ALL other web sites - so you can not use tabbed browsing to say, check that you have enough cash in the bank to pay for your amazon order because as soon as you log into the bank the amazon session gets screwed up and when you log off the banks web site you are also logged out of amazon. (This is a made up example) Firefox and mozilla do not do this. They maintain seperation between what is going on in each tab so that in the above example when you log out of the bank you are still logged into amazon. This is a huge oversight in the usability of tabbed browsing in ie7. > > Shout Telecoms Limited schrieb am Wed, 22 Nov 2006 04:38:02 -0800: > > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > This is a huge oversight in the usability of tabbed browsing in ie7. I made one error. Firefox on windows does indeed share the same session between tabs which is bad. Firefox on Linux keeps seperation between tabs as does Opera on windows. Shout Telecoms Limited schrieb am Wed, 22 Nov 2006 05:18:02 -0800: > Yes - if you want to log out of a web site then you want to log out - > however if you read my post thoroughly you will see that the problem is > logging out of a web site logs you out of ALL other web sites I read that, but you wrote it in such a way that it wasn't clear if you really meant *different* web sites. see below. > Firefox and mozilla do not do this. They maintain seperation between what > is going on in each tab so that in the above example when you log out of the > bank you are still logged into amazon. That's exactly the case with IE. If it is different for you, there's something wrong on your PC and I'm not aware of other reports of this issue. Kai SignatureHelpsites about Windows: http://www.mvps.org IE repair script: http://iefaq.info > Shout Telecoms Limited schrieb am Wed, 22 Nov 2006 05:18:02 -0800: > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Kai That can't be IEs behaviour as IE uses the same session between tabs. You only get a new session if you start an entirely new instance of the browser. Where this really sucks is when the two "sites" share the same domain. IE may well be able to determine that certain parts of the session belong to amazon and other parts belong to a bank but lets look at this example.... (again a bit made up but only to illustrate the point) say there is a group of web sites hoseted under foo.bar and each "site" requires a seperate login. bank.foo.bar is one organisation books.foo.bar is another the "sites" are both independently writting and use php session handling as a convenient way of storing data, including that the current user is logged in and what they have permission to use. currently the only way to achieve the required level of seperation is two instances of the browser and that isn't an intuative use of tabbed browsing. Now, there are difficulties because sometimes when a window pops up from another window it assumes the same session context, however it is not beyond the realms of possibility to get this functionality right so that something opened from javascript inherits the current session but something opened from the UI or desktop gets a new session. I'd also suggest that when a user manually types into the address bar that the tab gets a new session and the old session is destroyed if no other tab/instance is using it. I do appreciate the complexity of the sared memory requirements but I do believe it is a worthwhile enhancement as most end users will not understand about sessions and will just get very upset that they are getting "randomly logged off". It is a reality that this behaviour in a tabbed browser really gets people cross - just take a look at the threads if the firefox bugzilla stie. Microsoft will get a lot of brownie points and win back a lot of open source afficionados if they can get this right. Shout Telecoms Limited schrieb am Wed, 22 Nov 2006 08:42:01 -0800: > That can't be IEs behaviour as IE uses the same session between tabs. Sorry, I'm not able to follow your jumps. It seems you are talking about a different thing each time. You said you get logged out from e.g. Amazon when you log out from e.g. your bank in the same window (but different tab). I can just assure you that this doesn't happen for me (using other sites than Amazon and your bank, but the basic scheme should be clear). If it happens for you there's something wrong with your setup. All the rest of your message seems to apply to yet another scenario. Kai SignatureHelpsites about Windows: http://www.mvps.org IE repair script: http://iefaq.info > Shout Telecoms Limited schrieb am Wed, 22 Nov 2006 08:42:01 -0800: > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Kai Please re-read the examples I have given you and bear in mind that between posts I am doing some thorough testing which may well result in the scenario shifting to reflect the actual behaviour of explorer. The problem is that tabs share the same session. Explorer appears to be able to identify sessions on different domains and keeps seperation. So the bank/amazon example is a bad one and the shift to books.foo.com and bank.foo.com reflects the actual behaviour better. When your seperate and independant web applications run on the same server then seperation is lost and the sessions for the tabs corrupt each other. I am saying, quite simply, that this is not good behaviour. To log onto two applications on the same domain requires two instances of the browser. It can not be done with two tabs - which many users expect to be able to do and I have had to field many support calls on this issue since the release of IE7. Tabbed browsing does not do what the end user expects it to do. This statement can be backed up by the thousands of posts about the same issue on the firefox bugzilla site. Users expect inheritance of the session where an new window/tab opens from a link within a page. They expect a new completely new session if they explicitly open a new tab or window using the browser GUI. Whats so hard to understand? > > Shout Telecoms Limited schrieb am Wed, 22 Nov 2006 08:42:01 -0800: > > [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > > Whats so hard to understand? After much searching I have found this page http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/expertzone/chats/transcripts/06_0713_ez_ie.mspx go there and search for session and you'll find that this is a known issue set to be addresses in the next version. Whether this means ie8 or a 7 update remains to be seen. Shout Telecoms Limited schrieb am Thu, 23 Nov 2006 00:38:02 -0800: > Please re-read the examples I have given you and bear in mind that between > posts I am doing some thorough testing which may well result in the scenario > shifting to reflect the actual behaviour of explorer. Nevertheless, you posted several claims here that simply were not true. > The problem is that tabs share the same session. This is a known issue. > the shift to books.foo.com and > bank.foo.com reflects the actual behaviour better. but it's not a real world example. One may also be able to specify a cookie path like you can do for saved cookies (I didn't test that and am not going to). Basically, the only occasion where a real-world clash can happen if you login to the same site more than once. And that is actually not liked by most sites or even prohibited. Apart from that I cannot see much use for this scenario. On the other side, if a site *wants* to support double logins in a reliable way they *can* do this. e.g. I can login to my bank twice on different tabs in the same window and logout of one and still am logged in to the other. So, it *is* possible if your code is good. Kai SignatureHelpsites about Windows: http://www.mvps.org IE repair script: http://iefaq.info I totally agree with Shout Telecoms on this one. If you are logged in on two different websites (e.g. two email accounts) in two different tabs; when you logout from one of them, IE7 automatically logs you out of the other account also. This is a bug that microsoft needs to take care of ASAP. This does not happen in other browsers like firefox. This does not make sense. What is the use of tabs if you cant login on two different sites on two tabs and instead you need to open another window like in IE6. Both the tabs should be considered as two different sessions. Dont know how people at microsoft just overlooked this before releasing IE7. > Shout Telecoms Limited schrieb am Thu, 23 Nov 2006 00:38:02 -0800: > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Kai Kavan schrieb am Tue, 30 Jan 2007 08:19:02 -0800: > I totally agree with Shout Telecoms on this one. I don't know what he said, seems to be a thread long dead. > If you are logged in on two different websites (e.g. two email accounts) in > two different tabs; when you logout from one of them, IE7 automatically logs > you out of the other account also. I'm sorry to tell you that your claim is simply not true. I don't have this problem nor anyone that I know of. Talk to your bank about the problem. Check your Add-Ons and other software for problems. Kai SignatureHelpsites about Windows: http://www.mvps.org IE repair script: http://iefaq.info Hi, Let me give you another example : Let's say I 'm working in insurances in a company. I need to connect to a web server/site to manage the car/bike insurance contracts I have made. I need to connect to another web server to manage life insurance contract. I am an end user and I certainly don't know that the site hosted on this server (2nd one) actually contains an iframe wich is an instance of the first website (and so hosted on the first server). Once this is done, I come back to my first tab, and refresh the page. The sessions completely overlap themselves, and one will be destroyed ! Do not tell me this could be an expected behaviour... > Session handling is not right when you are using tabbed browsing. It appears > that each instance of ie7 maintains a single session for all tabs - destroy [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/list/en-us/default.aspx?mid=0dbf 7fa9-f5df-4e5a-b8b5-b3c0ace21b4a&dg=microsoft.public.internetexplorer.general I have another example that shows how broken this is. I have two application hosted by the same web site, if I access each application in its own instance of IE (at the same time) they work great. If I open the two applications in the same IE in two different tabs, (created a new tab manually) they behave badly. I investigated (have access to the applications on the server). The developer for the second application must have copied some code from the first application - they both contain a session variable with the same name. When I rebuilt the second application changing the name of the session variable then they work in the tabbed view. So all session variables are shared between all applications from the same domain - which to me is broken. If a user opens a new tab then it should be a new session, if a window is lunched by an application then it shares the session (even if it is lunched as "open in new window"). Yes this would require a little more work, but it is the correct behavior. > Session handling is not right when you are using tabbed browsing. It appears > that each instance of ie7 maintains a single session for all tabs - destroy [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/list/en-us/default.aspx?mid=0dbf 7fa9-f5df-4e5a-b8b5-b3c0ace21b4a&dg=microsoft.public.internetexplorer.general |
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