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Outlook Express v Windows Live Mail

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Bob Lucas - 30 Apr 2008 10:45 GMT
Windows XP Professional, SP2
IE7
OE6
Microsoft Office Professional 2000

I use Outlook Express as my default program for the following purposes:

a)    Downloading and sending emails (POP3 & SMTP servers)

b)    To access my free "grandfather" Hotmail and MSN accounts via the
HTTP server at http://services.msn.com/svcs/hotmail/httpmail.asp

c)    Newsreader (NNTP servers)

I use the address book C:\Documents and Settings\...\Address Book\Bob
Lucas.wab in conjunction with OE.  My address book includes several
Groups / Distribution Lists.

I have received an email from Microsoft, which states, "we want to
provide advanced notice that as of June 30, 2008, Microsoft is disabling
the DAV protocol and you will no longer be able to access your Hotmail
Inbox via Outlook Express. As an alternative, we recommend that you
download Windows Live Mail, a free desktop e-mail client that has the
familiarity of Outlook Express and much more."

It seems I will have the following options:

1.    Switch to Windows Live Mail or

2.    Continue to use Outlook Express to access my POP3, SMTP and NNTP
servers - and use the webmail interface for Hotmail and MSN mail
accounts.

Microsoft are promoting Live Mail, so it would be naive for me to expect
them to tell me about the drawbacks (if any).  I like OE, which until
now, has done everything I require from an email and newsreader.   To
assist with this decision, I wonder whether anyone can provide a brief
summary of the primary differences between Outlook Express and Windows
Live Mail.

In particular, does Live Mail have any major disadvantages.  Is it
compatible with my existing address book and the spell-checker in Word
2000.  Most importantly, would I be able to revert to Outlook Express,
if I don't like Live Mail?
Ron Sommer - 30 Apr 2008 12:08 GMT
You have a third option.
Use WLM for http and continue using OE for pop and imap.
WLM can run at the same time as OE.
When you install WLM, the OE shortcuts may be removed.
WLM will also want to be the default email program.
WLM will import all of the accounts in OE.  Just remove the accounts from
WLM.
Signature

Ronald Sommer

> Windows XP Professional, SP2
> IE7
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
> 2000.  Most importantly, would I be able to revert to Outlook Express, if
> I don't like Live Mail?
VanguardLH - 30 Apr 2008 12:44 GMT
> Windows XP Professional, SP2
> IE7
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> a)    Downloading and sending emails (POP3 & SMTP servers)

Both OE and WLM support POP3 and SMTP.  So the change from WebDAV to
DeltaSync is irrelevant to those accounts.  You can use either OE or
WLM.

> b)    To access my free "grandfather" Hotmail and MSN accounts via the
> HTTP server at http://services.msn.com/svcs/hotmail/httpmail.asp

I haven't heard what Microsoft will do regarding grandfathered accounts
(whether they were grandfathered back in Feb 2000 for MSN or back in Nov
2004 for Hotmail).  Don't expect Microsoft to keep carrying them along.

This is the account that could be affected by the switch from WebDAV to
DeltaSync and you'll either have to use Outlook with the Outlook
Connector add-on (only works with Outlook 2003/2007) or WLM.  Well, a
3rd choice is to dump the old Hotmail account and find a freebie POP3
account somewhere else.  Okay, there is a 4th choice: convert your old
MSN Hotmail account to a new Windows Live Hotmail account (if you
weren't already forced over) and get a Plus account which gives you
access to their POP3 mail host (this was returned around last Nov 2007).

> c)    Newsreader (NNTP servers)

Since neither WebDAV or Deltasync have anything to do with NNTP (both
support NNTP), it's up to you as to whether you use OE or WLM.  This
point has no bearing on which of Microsoft's free e-mail clients that
you use; that is, newsgroups support is superfluous to your decision.

> I use the address book C:\Documents and Settings\...\Address Book\Bob
> Lucas.wab in conjunction with OE.  My address book includes several
> Groups / Distribution Lists.

WLM has the familiar File -> Import navigation of OE.  It shows as
supporting the import of .wab files.  I have tried it yet.  I've spent
most of my time redoing my rules because what worked in OE may not
necessary work as expected in WLM.  For example, in OE the POP3 accounts
got aggregated into one message store and you used rules to slice out
the e-mails to different folders.  In WLM, each account has its own
message store and there is a general storage area.  You might have to
rethink your rules in WLM.  To keep messages within an account, for
example, you'll have to add the clause to test through which account an
e-mail was received and then pick a folder under that account's message
store rather than have the rule move it under the general storage area
(unless you want it that way).  About two-thirds of my rules had to be
modified in WLM and got multiple by the N accounts that I have.  They
might've worked okay as-is but not how I would've expected for behavior
under OE.

> I have received an email from Microsoft, which states, "we want to
> provide advanced notice that as of June 30, 2008, Microsoft is disabling
> the DAV protocol and you will no longer be able to access your Hotmail
> Inbox via Outlook Express. As an alternative, we recommend that you
> download Windows Live Mail, a free desktop e-mail client that has the
> familiarity of Outlook Express and much more."

Which only affect your point b above.

> It seems I will have the following options:
>
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> servers - and use the webmail interface for Hotmail and MSN mail
> accounts.

That's a choice and one that I kept considering while trialing WLM (in a
virtual machine so I could get rid of it very easy without impacting my
current working setup).  Or see the other choices that I noted under
your point b.

> Microsoft are promoting Live Mail, so it would be naive for me to expect
> them to tell me about the drawbacks (if any).  I like OE, which until
> now, has done everything I require from an email and newsreader.   To
> assist with this decision, I wonder whether anyone can provide a brief
> summary of the primary differences between Outlook Express and Windows
> Live Mail.

You could start trialing WLM now so you are already prepared to have
WebDAV yanked away from your grandfathered account *if* it happens for
grandfathered accounts.  I'm leaning that grandfathered accounts are
going to get killed in or soon after June.  One Microsoft blog noted
that when POP3 was returned (only for Windows Live Hotmail PLUS
accounts) in November that there was consideration of bring back POP3 in
about another 12 months for freebie accounts.  

Not everyone is keeping their e-mails online to qualify Microsoft's
claim about DeltaSync being better for the huge mailboxes (because a
huge capacity doesn't equate to a huge consumption).  At most, in any
mail poll, my e-mail client sees maybe all of half a dozen, or less,
e-mails waiting and I want them to be local instead of up on the mail
host, so I will never be consuming gobs of disk space up on the mail
host.  I'd have to poll my mail account about once after abandoning
after 3 years to maybe have a gigabyte of disk space consumed.  Repeated
polling of my account means there won't be much on the mail host and
usually there won't be anything there - but then I don't go leaving
e-mails sitting for months or years in my Inbox and instead delete them
or move them into other holding folders (but which are in my local
message store, not up on the mail host).  

That there is even 6.6GB of storage in my Live Hotmail account is
ridiculous.  The gigabyte wars between Hotmail, Yahoo, and Gmail were a
joke to me because I never consumed more than maybe 100MB at any time -
but maybe I manage my e-mails better or differently.  I've seen plenty
of boobs desparately begging how to restore their old many year-old
e-mails that they stupidly left in their Inbox.  Flat-filing your entire
e-mail storage in one folder just sounds stupid and also very lazy.  I
have one family member that has many thousands of e-mails sitting in
their Inbox dating back years ago.  Because of her laziness over all
that time, she hasn't a clue what's in there anymore to know if she
wants it anymore, and because she is lazy means she isn't going to clean
it up, either (her house is a pig sty, too).

> In particular, does Live Mail have any major disadvantages.  Is it
> compatible with my existing address book and the spell-checker in Word
> 2000.  Most importantly, would I be able to revert to Outlook Express,
> if I don't like Live Mail?

Well, you know how to visit newsgroups.  So now go over to the one for
WLM at microsoft.public.windows.live.desktop to do some lurking while
reading the posts.  There are definite defects with WLM but some appear
to be in how users have to rethink how the message stores are managed
under WLM which is different than for OE, some will have to modify their
old rules, some complain about losing the [clumsy] identities feature
available in OE but not in WLM, and so on.  Of course, trialing WLM
would let you better figure out whether YOU want to use it or not.  Just
because you install it doesn't make OE explode and disappear (although,
as mentioned, WLM's install will fark over the OE shortcuts *if* you
left them in their default Start menu paths rather than organize your
Start menu how you want - yep, I've seen users that flat-file their
shortcuts so they see a many hundred item Start -> Programs folder as if
that is really convenient to scroll through).
PA Bear [MS MVP] - 30 Apr 2008 18:23 GMT
In OE, you can continue to receive messages in your Hotmail inbox (only)
after 30 June 2008 if you (1) subscribe to Windows Live Hotmail Plus
(http://get.live.com/mail/options) *and then* (2) reconfigure the Hotmail
account for POP3 access
(http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.outlookexpress.general/msg/1dd1c
1da2d68ea43
).

Windows Live Mail includes just about all of the functionality (at least)
currently available in Outlook Express (access to POP3, IMAP, Hotmail, and
newsgroups).

Windows Live Mail overview
http://get.live.com/wlmail/overview

Windows Live Mail newsgroup
news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsoft.public.windows.live.mail.desktop

> Most importantly, would I be able to revert to Outlook Express,
> if I don't like Live Mail?

Yes, although installing Windows Live Mail will remove your shortcuts to OE
in Start menu and Quick Launch bar and will assert itself as the default for
Email in Set Program Access and Defaults.

See this recent, ongoing conversation about all of this:
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.outlookexpress.general/browse_fr
m/thread/54b191d2ef1c9614

Signature

~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
DTS-L http://dts-l.net/

> Windows XP Professional, SP2
> IE7
[quoted text clipped - 40 lines]
> 2000.  Most importantly, would I be able to revert to Outlook Express,
> if I don't like Live Mail?
Michael Santovec - 30 Apr 2008 19:02 GMT
Windows Live Mail (WLM) is based on Outlook Express and pretty much the
same program and has similar features including a number of the same
quirks.

One of the biggest differences is under the covers.  WLM dumps the
fragile DBX files for the message store and uses EML files (one per
message).

If you are using Identities, that's one thing you'll lose.  If you are
using them for multiple users on a PC, then WLM expects you to use
Windows User Logons instead.  If you are using them to separate POP3
accounts, WLM does a better job of that directly.  But if you are truly
using identities, such as to separate personal verses business accounts,
that will be a problem.

There are some cosmetic differences in the look and feel.  But once you
look at the menu options, you'll find much that is a direct copy,
although some options have been moved around.

As to your specific questions:

1) WLM uses its own address book.  It will import the OE WAB file.  It
supports groups but not folders.  Members of a group must be in the main
contacts, whereas OE allows you to put e-mail addresses in a group
without putting them in the main contacts.

2) WLM has its own spell checker and is not dependent on Word/Office.
The upside is that you avoid the OE/Office 2007 fiasco.  The down side
is a limited number of languages (English, Spanish, French, German,
Korean).

3) On install WLM will import the OE data and make itself the default
mail program.  OE is still installed with all its data.  It's pretty
easy to switch back.

To set Outlook Express back as the default mail program:
Start, Run and enter:

 "C:\Program Files\Outlook Express\msimn.exe"   /reg

To recreate missing shortcuts to start OE, create a shortcut with the
target:

 "C:\Program Files\Outlook Express\msimn.exe"

Signature

Mike - http://pages.prodigy.net/michael_santovec/techhelp.htm

> Windows XP Professional, SP2
> IE7
[quoted text clipped - 41 lines]
> 2000.  Most importantly, would I be able to revert to Outlook Express,
> if I don't like Live Mail?
PA Bear [MS MVP] - 30 Apr 2008 19:29 GMT
Thanks, Michael.  Your post's a keeper.

> Windows Live Mail (WLM) is based on Outlook Express and pretty much the
> same program and has similar features including a number of the same
[quoted text clipped - 40 lines]
>
>  "C:\Program Files\Outlook Express\msimn.exe"
<snip>
Bob Lucas - 01 May 2008 19:46 GMT
A big Thank You to Michael (and everybody else who responded).  You have
provided all the information I need to make an informed decision.

I have now installed Windows Live Mail.  In the process, the
installation program asked me whether I wanted Live Mail to become the
default email program - to which I answered "No".  Consequently, I still
have Outlook Express as my default email and newsreader.

Then, the installer copied all of my POP3/SMTP and HTTP mail accounts
from OE to Live Mail.   It also copied the NNTP news accounts from OE to
Live Mail.

Live Mail works well with the MSN / Hotmail accounts and I like the
"Unread Feed" facility.  However, I still prefer OE for everything else,
so I have deleted the POP3/SMTP and NNTP accounts from Live Mail.
Similarly, I deleted the HTTP Hotmail and MSN accounts from Live Mail.
Now, I have the best of both worlds with no conflicts between the OE6
and Live Mail programs.

Incidentally, Live Mail did not delete the OE shortcuts from my Desktop,
Start Menu or the Quick Launch bar.  As far as I can see, the only snag
affected the address book in Live Mail.  I maintain my comprehensive
address book (Bob Lucas.wab) locally on my computer.  Initially, Live
Mail imported a heavily abbreviated address book from the webmail
interface of my Hotmail account (which I use very infrequently, whilst I
am away from home).  I needed to import my full address book manually.

> Windows Live Mail (WLM) is based on Outlook Express and pretty much
> the same program and has similar features including a number of the
[quoted text clipped - 86 lines]
>> Word 2000.  Most importantly, would I be able to revert to Outlook
>> Express, if I don't like Live Mail?
PA Bear [MS MVP] - 01 May 2008 19:59 GMT
[X-post to WLM NG]

> I have now installed Windows Live Mail.  In the process, the
> installation program asked me whether I wanted Live Mail to become the
> default email program - to which I answered "No".  Consequently, I still
> have Outlook Express as my default email and newsreader.
<snip>
> Incidentally, Live Mail did not delete the OE shortcuts from my Desktop,
> Start Menu or the Quick Launch bar.

Hoorah!

> ...It also copied the NNTP news accounts from OE to
> Live Mail.

But not news messages, right?

Please tell us if installing any future Outlook (not OE) Updates affects the
status of WLMail being the default Mail Client.

Request: Please test the MailTo/SendTo functionality in MS Word right now
and let us know (1) if it works and (2) what Mail Client is invoked if it
works.
Signature

~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-IE, Mail, Security, Windows Desktop Experience - since 2002
AumHa VSOP & Admin http://aumha.net
DTS-L http://dts-l.net/

> A big Thank You to Michael (and everybody else who responded).  You have
> provided all the information I need to make an informed decision.
[quoted text clipped - 113 lines]
>>> Word 2000.  Most importantly, would I be able to revert to Outlook
>>> Express, if I don't like Live Mail?
Bob Lucas - 02 May 2008 09:32 GMT
1.    Live Mail copied the news accounts from OE.  I deleted the news
accounts from Live Mail, without bothering to check whether it had also
copied news messages.

2.    I use Outlook (from Office 2000) very rarely.  Microsoft Update
does not download automatic updates for Office 2000 - and there are no
updates available at present on Office Update.  If a future Outlook
Update changes the default Mail Client, it is very easy to change it
back to OE.

3.    As requested, I have tested the "Send to/Mail to" function in Word
2000.  It invoked Outlook Express as the Mail client - which worked OK.
I don't know whether this also applies to Word 2003 or later.

> [X-post to WLM NG]
>
[quoted text clipped - 161 lines]
>>>> Word 2000.  Most importantly, would I be able to revert to Outlook
>>>> Express, if I don't like Live Mail?
N. Miller - 02 May 2008 03:32 GMT
> Live Mail works well with the MSN / Hotmail accounts and I like the
> "Unread Feed" facility.  However, I still prefer OE for everything else,
> so I have deleted...the HTTP Hotmail and MSN accounts from Live Mail.
> Now, I have the best of both worlds with no conflicts between the OE6
> and Live Mail programs.

Um, you might want to reconsider that line of action. MS Outlook Express
(your preferred client) uses WebDAV for HTTPMail access to Hotmail accounts.
Windows Live Hotmail is discontinuing support for WebDAV access (in favor of
DeltaSync) on June 30, 2008. Microsoft as already ceased development of MS
Outlook Express, and DeltaSync support will not be added. What this means is
that, commencing July 1, 2008, MS Outlook Express will not be able to access
Windows Live Hotmail accounts. Only Windows Live Mail will work at that
time.

Signature

Norman
~Shine, bright morning light,
~now in the air the spring is coming.
~Sweet, blowing wind,
~singing down the hills and valleys.

Ron Sommer - 02 May 2008 03:45 GMT
I believe Bob meant to say:
so I have deleted the POP3/SMTP and NNTP accounts from Live Mail.
Similarly, I deleted the HTTP Hotmail and MSN accounts from *OE6*.
Now, I have the best of both worlds with no conflicts between the OE6
and Live Mail programs.

If Bob deleted all of the accounts from WLM, then Bob wouldn't "have the
best of both worlds".
Signature

Ronald Sommer

>> Live Mail works well with the MSN / Hotmail accounts and I like the
>> "Unread Feed" facility.  However, I still prefer OE for everything else,
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
> Windows Live Hotmail accounts. Only Windows Live Mail will work at that
> time.
Bob Lucas - 02 May 2008 09:19 GMT
>> Live Mail works well with the MSN / Hotmail accounts and I like the
>> "Unread Feed" facility.  However, I still prefer OE for everything
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> that
> time.

Sorry.  That was  a typo!

All POP3/SMTP and NNTP accounts are in Outlook Express.

The HTTP (Hotmail and MSN) accounts are in Windows Live Mail.  I deleted
Hotmail and MSN from OE - not from Live Mail.
Liviu - 02 May 2008 05:38 GMT
>A big Thank You to Michael (and everybody else who responded).  You
>have provided all the information I need to make an informed decision.
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> still have Outlook Express as my default email and newsreader.
> [...] As far as I can see, the only snag affected the address book...

You may want to also check the file associations for the .EML and .NWS
extensions (.eml is used for example when someone forwards you email as
an attachment). WLM install seems to take them over, even if _not_ being
set as  the default email client. If necessary, associations can be
restored individually by hand, or running "msimn /reg" does that, too.
Bob Lucas - 02 May 2008 09:31 GMT
>>A big Thank You to Michael (and everybody else who responded).  You
>>have provided all the information I need to make an informed decision.
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> set as  the default email client. If necessary, associations can be
> restored individually by hand, or running "msimn /reg" does that, too.

Thank you.  You are quite correct.

I have restored OE as the file association for .EML.
 
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