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Windows Forum / Windows 95 / January 2004extremely slow boot in a 486 (windows95B)
hello and happy new year 486 which finally loaded windows 95B (very slowly) just want to know whether the following lines in autoexec.bat are needed (on this 1 i cannot instal anything like ?BLA? to see what's booting b/c the floppy drive does not work in dos, in windows (but is in the BIOS)) if anyone could advise it would be very much appreciated! autoexec.bat @ECHO OFF prompt $P$G path c:\windows;c:\windows\command;c:\dos set temp = c:\dos LH C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\MSDEX/D:MSCD000 (if this is for the cd-rom -- it is not connected on purpose for now) c:\windows\a3init.exe in startUp it has cleanSweep 95 instal monitor and cleanSweep 95 usage monitor THANKS VERY MUCH! >just want to know whether the following lines in autoexec.bat are needed Neither Windows 95 nor Windows 98 requires an autoexec.bat or a Config.sys. What is this? >c:\windows\a3init.exe Unless there is some reason why you want to run a3init, you can delete the Autoexec.bat. You can probably also delete the Config.sys file. One exception would be a computer in which drive C: is a SCSI drive. Bill Starbuck (MVP) > >just want to know whether the following lines in autoexec.bat are needed > > Neither Windows 95 nor Windows 98 requires an autoexec.bat or a > Config.sys. i wrote below why i am concerned re: removing them bc this machine ran dos (486dx) > What is this? > >c:\windows\a3init.exe i have no idea. > Unless there is some reason why you want to run a3init, you can delete > the Autoexec.bat. there's no reason i want it... i could comment it. problem though is that the pc's floppy drive does not function at all so if i have to boot off a floppy i can't however the a3init.exe is not a windows file is it? so likely it's just adding to the problem? > You can probably also delete the Config.sys file. One exception would > be a computer in which drive C: is a SCSI drive. it's ide however the controller is on the controller card in a vesa(?) slot. also the findFast -- those aren't essential are they? > Bill Starbuck (MVP) i also answered on your next post THANKS VERY MUCH! sincerely Tanya >there's no reason i want it... i could comment it. problem though is that the >pc's floppy drive does not function at all so if i have to boot off a floppy >i can't Might this be the reason why the computer is starting slowly? Perhaps it is trying to verify that the harddisk works. As to your other issues -- I would first REM out the a3init. That is, change the line to read REM c:\windows\a3init.exe Then if I saw nothing wrong, I would change the name of the Autoexec.bat to Autoexec.baz. This will eliminate the Autoexec.bat from the startup process. Then if I saw nothing wrong, I would change the name of the Config.sys to Config.syz. This will eliminate the Config.sys from the startup process. However, I would not expect either of these steps to speed up things noticeably. As I pointed out in a separate message, you need to try a Safe Mode startup and possibly to uninstall some programs that are starting automatically. Bill Starbuck (MVP) On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 09:28:31 -0500, Bill Starbuck >>there's no reason i want it... i could comment it. problem though is that the >>pc's floppy drive does not function at all so if i have to boot off a floppy >>i can't >Might this be the reason why the computer is starting slowly? Could be. >Perhaps it is trying to verify that the harddisk works. That's a scary thought that should be foregrounded until clarified! >As to your other issues -- >I would first ... change line to REM c:\windows\a3init.exe >Then if nothing wrong, change Autoexec.bat to Autoexec.baz >Then if nothing wrong, change Config.sys to Config.syz >I would not expect either of these to speed things noticeably. I'd also look at this from another perspective, i.e.: 1) At what point in the startup process does the slowdown occur? - before anything appears on screen? (PSU init) - before "Starting Microsoft Windows..."? (BIOS POST) - before splash screen appears? (early IO.SYS) - before splash screen re-appears? (Config.sys, Autoexec.bat) - before desktop? (early Windows init) - before logon, if applicable? (Windows' Local Machine phase) - after logon, if applicable? (Windows' per-user phase) - after icons appear, before really useable? (underfootware) If slowdown is during BIOS POST phase, I'd worry about sick HD. 2) What is going on during the delay? - HD LED fixed on, with no HD sound? (same-cylinder retries) - HD LED fixed on, with repeated clicking? (cyl seek retries) - HD LED flutters, random noises? (business as usual) - HD LED stays off? (waiting for other hardware, or in-RAM loop) - Other hardware indicators, e.g. LAN card activity? Hardware retries (sick HD, missing LAN cable or add-in card that added-in startup items or drivers may look for) can be slow++ 3) Do different boot strategies change your mileage? - F8 Safe Mode? (suppresses Win32 drivers and startup axis) - MSConfig suppression? (suppresses startup axis only) - Shift+F8 single-step? (adds big latency, ?fixes timing issues) - F8 Logged Boot? (adds fine latency, ?fixes timing issues) - F8 Command Prompt Only? (excludes Windows factor) - F8 Safe Mode Command Prompt Only? (excludes startup files too) If you state-chart the above, some answers will leap out at you, e.g. OK F8 Safe Mode? (suppresses Win32 drivers and startup axis) Bad MSConfig suppression? (suppresses startup axis only) Bad Shift+F8 single-step? (adds big latency, ?fixes timing issues) Bad F8 Logged Boot? (adds fine latency, ?fixes timing issues) OK F8 Command Prompt Only? (excludes Windows factor) OK F8 Safe Mode Command Prompt Only? (excludes startup files too) -> Windows drivers issue, or hardware they are looking for OK F8 Safe Mode? (suppresses Win32 drivers and startup axis) OK MSConfig suppression? (suppresses startup axis only) Bad Shift+F8 single-step? (adds big latency, ?fixes timing issues) Bad F8 Logged Boot? (adds fine latency, ?fixes timing issues) OK F8 Command Prompt Only? (excludes Windows factor) OK F8 Safe Mode Command Prompt Only? (excludes startup files too) -> Windows startup axis issues OK F8 Safe Mode? (suppresses Win32 drivers and startup axis) OK MSConfig suppression? (suppresses startup axis only) Bad Shift+F8 single-step? (adds big latency, ?fixes timing issues) Bad F8 Logged Boot? (adds fine latency, ?fixes timing issues) Bad F8 Command Prompt Only? (excludes Windows factor) OK F8 Safe Mode Command Prompt Only? (excludes startup files too) -> Real-mode startup axis issues (Config.sys and Autoexec.bat) OK F8 Safe Mode? (suppresses Win32 drivers and startup axis) Bad MSConfig suppression? (suppresses startup axis only) OK Shift+F8 single-step? (adds big latency, ?fixes timing issues) OK F8 Logged Boot? (adds fine latency, ?fixes timing issues) OK F8 Command Prompt Only? (excludes Windows factor) OK F8 Safe Mode Command Prompt Only? (excludes startup files too) -> Windows driver timing issues (live with "Logged Boot" as default?) All bad - points to POST/BIOS/sick-hardware. Worry and chase. >--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - Error Messages Are Your Friends >--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - hi and thanks again... don't know if i should rePost this but there *DEFINATELY* is a problem w/ the floppy drive itself and more than likely the original floppy cable.... (just traded data cables with a known working floppy and tried to read a regular diskette (that works)) if the floppy drive sounds like a cranking car (with the lights on and off (irregular) as the lights should look on a healthy one) i guess that points to the floppy read/write heads? > On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 09:28:31 -0500, Bill Starbuck > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > >Then if nothing wrong, change Config.sys to Config.syz > >I would not expect either of these to speed things noticeably. <notSIPPEDhelpfullInfo> > I'd also look at this from another perspective, i.e.: > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > - after logon, if applicable? (Windows' per-user phase) > - after icons appear, before really useable? (underfootware) currently the last but not that slow anymore > If slowdown is during BIOS POST phase, I'd worry about sick HD. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > - HD LED stays off? (waiting for other hardware, or in-RAM loop) > - Other hardware indicators, e.g. LAN card activity? unfortunately the hd's led had to be disconnected b/c (this is the thin wired one in this case red and white twisted that sticks onto the controller card:- the white wire was out of the connector -- unless it's safe to push it back, i have to listen to the drive which sounds louder than most but it is *OLD* also there are TWO other hdd on the pc (DISCONNECTED DATAWISE AND POWERWISE) the owner aren't too worried re: the hd on this one... > Hardware retries (sick HD, missing LAN cable or add-in card that > added-in startup items or drivers may look for) can be slow++ [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > Error Messages Are Your Friends > >--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - ok i'm going to try all these and post back.......... appreciated however first i think i should rpl the floppy drive from the 1 that lent the ribbon cable:) THANKS On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 20:06:12 -0500, Tanya >hi and thanks again... Hi! >don't know if i should rePost this but there *DEFINATELY* is a problem w/ the >floppy drive itself and more than likely the original floppy cable.... OK. Diskette drives do fail, as do controllers... >if the floppy drive sounds like a cranking car i guess that points to the >floppy read/write heads? Most likely a metal diskette door slider stuck in the mechanism, as state which you may be able to infer from presence of one diskette with a missing metal door slider. Surprisingly, the drive often survives this disaster, once opened and the door removed! >> On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 09:28:31 -0500, Bill Starbuck wrote >> >Perhaps it is trying to verify that the harddisk works. >> That's a scary thought that should be foregrounded until clarified! ><notSIPPEDhelpfullInfo> Snipped this time ;-) >> I'd also look at this from another perspective, i.e.: >> 1) At what point in the startup process does the slowdown occur? >> - after icons appear, before really useable? (underfootware) >currently the last but not that slow anymore OK, that's most likely late Windows startup axis (or the protracted agonies of something that started from early Windows startup axis) or - something one often forgets - issues with Explorer itself. Well, not so much the .exe itself, but additional code integrated via CLSIDs >> If slowdown is during BIOS POST phase, I'd worry about sick HD. >> 2) What is going on during the delay? >> - HD LED ...variations snipped... >> - Other hardware indicators, e.g. LAN card activity? >unfortunately the hd's led had to be disconnected b/c (this is the thin wired one >in this case red and white twisted that sticks onto the controller card:- the white >wire was out of the connector -- unless it's safe to push it back, When powered off, it will be (VL-bus era had *real* mains switches). >i have to listen to the drive which sounds louder than most >but it is *OLD* also there are TWO other hdd on the pc >(DISCONNECTED DATAWISE AND POWERWISE) >the owner aren't too worried re: the hd on this one... OK. The disconnected HDs aren't a factor, of course :-) No LAN card? >however first i think i should rpl the floppy drive from the 1 that lent the ribbon >cable:) Yep. Are diskette and HD data cables connected to headers on the mobo? - if so, implies either a recent generic or any-age proprietary - also implies tighter binding of BIOS/CMOS settings to IDE - perhaps better chance of the secondary channel working If so, is it a "brand name" PC? - if so, may not be recent; if recent, all the better - if proprietary, the list of "what could go wrong?" grows++ If not, is/are the card/s they are connected to ISA or VL-bus? - different speed mileage can be considered there - ISA-16 is 16-bits, should be 8MHz - VL-bus is 32-bits, locked to RAM speed (more on that later) Is there a CD-ROM drive? - if not, that does simplify matters ATA / IDE If so, is it slave to the HD or on a different IDE channel? - if slave, HD and CD jumpers must be correct - mind you, same if on separate channels... - ...some HD different jumpers for "single" vs. "master+slave" If CD-ROM on "different channel", is it on a sound card? - if so, may be proprietary or third-IDE; another complication If on a sound card, is it ATAPI ("IDE") or earlier proprietary? - pre-ATAPI Creative, Panasonic, Sony etc. interfaces: - ...won't show up in CMOS - ...won't work with generic drivers (OakCDROM.sys etc.) What is the processor's MHz and base speed? - SX/DX-25, DX2-50, DX4-75 all 25MHz base speed - ISA should be CLK2/3 = 8MHz, VL will be 25MHz OK - SX/DX-33, DX2-66, -100 or -133 all 33MHz base speed - ISA should be CLK2/4 = 8MHz, VL will be 33MHz OK - DX-40, DX2-80, DX4-120 all 40MHz base speed - ISA should be CLK2/5 = 8MHz, VL will be 40MHz (!!) - the rare true i486DX-50 is 50MHz base speed - ISA should be CLK2/6 I guess, VL will be 50MHz (!!!) - VL-bus should be 33MHz tops, esp. if 2 x VL controllers - this includes inbuilt VL IDE as one of the devices - look for "33/>33" or "1x/0.5x" jumpers to curb VL o'clocking - IDE datascramble will Spoil Your Day [TM] Those ground 0.1v variations aren't likely to be an issue, unless the PSU doesn't issue a power good as a result (which delays the very first part of the boot process, before any screen text appears). HD and diskette controllers have no bearing on each other, with one exception - if you plug a device mean for one into a data cable from the other, you can expect problems that fit your desc (e.g. diskette drive connected to the secondary IDE instead of the diskette controller). Unlikely, but another "gotcha"; the "diskette drive" that is actually an LS-120, which *should* connect to IDE :-) >--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - Error Messages Are Your Friends >--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - hi MANY thanks for answering! [...below...] > On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 20:06:12 -0500, Tanya > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > with a missing metal door slider. Surprisingly, the drive often > survives this disaster, once opened and the door removed! actually, tried another drive (not in the bay) and the system would not boot...... hooked up the original drive ... AND ... tried an enDust (ancient) "disk not formatted" then it read the several boot disks! i wonder why it would not boot w/ the other floppy? > >> On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 09:28:31 -0500, Bill Starbuck wrote > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Snipped this time ;-) lol > >> I'd also look at this from another perspective, i.e.: > > >> 1) At what point in the startup process does the slowdown occur? > >> - after icons appear, before really useable? (underfootware) > > >currently the last but not that slow anymore i'll add to this it stops after the post escape => some bios settings; RAM (btw it has 36 MB???????) cpu under this is "starting windows 95..." > OK, that's most likely late Windows startup axis (or the protracted > agonies of something that started from early Windows startup axis) or [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > When powered off, it will be (VL-bus era had *real* mains switches). i'll plug it back in........... HOWEVER the hd grinds away -- so i don't need the led :) > >i have to listen to the drive which sounds louder than most > >but it is *OLD* also there are TWO other hdd on the pc [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > No LAN card? no and i removed the isa modem too (it wasn't recognized anyWay and this system <needs to retire> would need a hardWare modem 56K) > >however first i think i should rpl the floppy drive from the 1 that lent the ribbon > >cable:) > > Yep. above > Are diskette and HD data cables connected to headers on the mobo? the floppy hd and mouse are attached to a controller card (into a vesa slot) > - if so, implies either a recent generic or any-age proprietary > - also implies tighter binding of BIOS/CMOS settings to IDE > - perhaps better chance of the secondary channel working don't know what headers are? > If so, is it a "brand name" PC? > - if so, may not be recent; if recent, all the better > - if proprietary, the list of "what could go wrong?" grows++ it's a hewit-rand (company is extinct) > If not, is/are the card/s they are connected to ISA or VL-bus? if vl means vesa then it's connected to the vsa slot > - different speed mileage can be considered there > - ISA-16 is 16-bits, should be 8MHz > - VL-bus is 32-bits, locked to RAM speed (more on that later) > > Is there a CD-ROM drive? > - if not, that does simplify matters ATA / IDE i disconnected it and commented out config.sys and autoexec.bat's references to the cd-rom (it had been getting warm (according to owners but was slave to the hd...)) > If so, is it slave to the HD or on a different IDE channel? > - if slave, HD and CD jumpers must be correct > - mind you, same if on separate channels... > - ...some HD different jumpers for "single" vs. "master+slave" ? -- i think it's already set up..... > If CD-ROM on "different channel", is it on a sound card? > - if so, may be proprietary or third-IDE; another complication channel? -- there's a grey wire that goes from the cd-rom to the sound card but that's not what you are asking? > If on a sound card, is it ATAPI ("IDE") or earlier proprietary? > - pre-ATAPI Creative, Panasonic, Sony etc. interfaces: > - ...won't show up in CMOS > - ...won't work with generic drivers (OakCDROM.sys etc.) it's not on a sound card, it must have been slave so it would be atapi > What is the processor's MHz and base speed? no idea... it's an INTEL 486 @ 100 Mhz > - SX/DX-25, DX2-50, DX4-75 all 25MHz base speed > - ISA should be CLK2/3 = 8MHz, VL will be 25MHz OK [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > - look for "33/>33" or "1x/0.5x" jumpers to curb VL o'clocking > - IDE datascramble will Spoil Your Day [TM] not sure re: the above -- how to determine the ?vesa or vl bus)? > Those ground 0.1v variations aren't likely to be an issue, unless the > PSU doesn't issue a power good as a result (which delays the very [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > controller). Unlikely, but another "gotcha"; the "diskette drive" > that is actually an LS-120, which *should* connect to IDE :-) no won't do that:) > >--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - > Error Messages Are Your Friends > >--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - thanks very much for the information On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 22:51:08 -0500, Tanya >> On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 20:06:12 -0500, Tanya >> >if the floppy drive sounds like a cranking car i guess ... heads? >> Most likely a metal diskette door slider stuck in the mechanism, as >> state which you may be able to infer from presence of one diskette >> with a missing metal door slider. Surprisingly, the drive often >> survives this disaster, once opened and the door removed! >actually, tried another drive (not in the bay) and the system would not boot...... >hooked up the original drive ... AND ... tried an enDust (ancient) "disk not formatted" >then it read the several boot disks! enDust being a head cleaner? OK; can also ->gently<- use isopropyl alcohol (e.g. "alohol swabs") or meths to clean the heads. >i wonder why it would not boot w/ the other floppy? Could be it was an old 720k drive? >> >> 1) At what point in the startup process does the slowdown occur? >> >> - after icons appear, before really useable? (underfootware) >> >currently the last but not that slow anymore Guuud >i'll add to this >it stops after the post Is there an error there? Or is it slowing downm when detecting disk drives? Is the Real-Time Clock slow, and/or do CMOS settings revert? >escape => some bios settings; RAM (btw it has 36 MB???????) cpu 36M = 2 x 4M + 2 x 16M - 4M for onboard SVGA? Odd for that generation of onboard SVGA to use more than 1-2M. Sure it's not 32M, 39M, 48M? >under this is "starting windows 95..." Once you see "Starting Windows..." (text), IO.SYS has loaded - so you know you are past BIOS, POST, BIOS HD discovery, Master boot Record, partition table, Partition Boot Record. Once you see the splash screen appear, you are still in IO.SYS but further along. The splash will vanish while Autoexec.bat is processed by Command.com (two more waypoints passed, as well as IO.SYS) and re-appear when interpretation of Autoexec.bat is done. Slowdown within IO.SYS could be soggy HDs, issues related to disk compression, initial registry access or items in Config.sys >> No LAN card? >no Guuud... >and i removed the isa modem too (it wasn't recognized anyWay and this system <needs to >retire> would need a hardWare modem 56K) Yep; or an external serial - BUT those VL-bus-era UARTs are likely to be the old ones without the 16-bit buffers, so would choke down the serial speed something awful. Use MSD.EXE to query UARTs in DOS. >> Are diskette and HD data cables connected to headers on the mobo? >the floppy hd and mouse are attached to a controller card (into a vesa slot) OK, sounds like a VL-bus multi-IO card; would expect that to be 1 or 2 IDE, 1 x diskette, 1 x parallel, 2 x serial (hopefully fast UARTs), 1 x Joystick - and a barrage of jumpers to configure in hardware <brr> >> - if so, implies either a recent generic or any-age proprietary >> - also implies tighter binding of BIOS/CMOS settings to IDE >> - perhaps better chance of the secondary channel working >don't know what headers are? Context lost; "headers" are the pins on cards or motherboard to which ribbon cables attach, or ("header cables") the ribbons that go from these to external sockets facing outside the case etc. >> If so, is it a "brand name" PC? >> - if so, may not be recent; if recent, all the better >> - if proprietary, the list of "what could go wrong?" grows++ >it's a hewit-rand (company is extinct) Hopefully generic - which is guuud. >> If not, is/are the card/s they are connected to ISA or VL-bus? >if vl means vesa then it's connected to the vsa slot VL = VESA Local (bus). Looks like a black ISA-16 with a brown extension (with closer-packed but non-tiered contacts) behind it. >> - different speed mileage can be considered there >> - ISA-16 is 16-bits, should be 8MHz >> - VL-bus is 32-bits, locked to RAM speed (more on that later) >> >> Is there a CD-ROM drive? >> - if not, that does simplify matters ATA / IDE >i disconnected it and commented out config.sys and autoexec.bat's refs to cd OK. If it was on the back of the HD as save, the HD may need rejumpering from "master with slave present" to "single". This only applies to certain HD brands; others don't care beyond Master or Slave >> - ...some HD different jumpers for "single" vs. "master+slave" >? -- i think it's already set up..... See above - you may impact on that when you pull the CD. >> If CD-ROM on "different channel", is it on a sound card? >> - if so, may be proprietary or third-IDE; another complication >channel? -- Standard IDE defines a primary and secondary channel, but non-standard tertiary and quaternary channels may be added - and often an old ISA-16 sound card will have its own IDE channel that either conflicts with those in the system, or is invisible as non-supported tertiary. >there's a grey wire that goes from the cd-rom to the sound card >but that's not what you are asking? No; that's just the analog audio feed used by adio CDs. >> If on a sound card, is it ATAPI ("IDE") or earlier proprietary? >> - pre-ATAPI Creative, Panasonic, Sony etc. interfaces: >> - ...won't show up in CMOS >> - ...won't work with generic drivers (OakCDROM.sys etc.) >it's not on a sound card, it must have been slave so it would be atapi Correct - or it's a proprietary one that shouldn't have been connected to IDE, and therefore won't work and may cause problems if so :-) >> What is the processor's MHz and base speed? >no idea... it's an INTEL 486 @ 100 Mhz That's an i486DX4-100, then - which is 33MHz x 3 (not "x 4" as "DX4" implies - a bit of sharp practice that Intel justifies by the boost in L1 cache from 8k to 16k that makes the 'DX4 a faster core). 33MHz base speed is good, because that's the best VL-bus is rated for. >> - SX/DX-33, DX2-66, -100 or -133 all 33MHz base speed >> - ISA should be CLK2/4 = 8MHz, VL will be 33MHz OK >no, wouldn't do that Of course; I've never done that either... <fib> ;-) >--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - Error Messages Are Your Friends >--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - hi, apologies to you and anyone who reads this for not snipping and leaving out things so here is M.O.R.E. > <snipped> (answered above) > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > >> If slowdown is during BIOS POST phase, I'd worry about sick HD. i am worried about the NOISY hd but seagate's utilities and ms scandisk all say it's ok > Is there a CD-ROM drive? > - if not, that does simplify matters ATA / IDE [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > - mind you, same if on separate channels... > - ...some HD different jumpers for "single" vs. "master+slave" (when the cd-rom was attached... 1st of all it ran warm and 2nd here, it was not in the bios as a 2'ary device even when attached) the hd is on the controller card -- it can have a 2 ide devices i assume? > Those ground 0.1v variations aren't likely to be an issue, unless the > PSU doesn't issue a power good as a result (which delays the very > first part of the boot process, before any screen text appears). i misTyped it was 0.01 volts so even better..,.i guess the psu's ruled out as a problem. thanks > >--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - > Error Messages Are Your Friends > >--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - thanks again for the info / reply / help! sincerely Tanya addendum... > I'd also look at this from another perspective, i.e.: > > 1) At what point in the startup process does the slowdown occur? > - before anything appears on screen? (PSU init) 1 thing: measuring the psu (back probing w/ dig voltmeters showed that the p8 wire 6 and p9 wire 1 (the ones next to each other (black) when on the board) read -.01 volts and so did the black grounds on the hd (load) and others not connected. whereas the p8 wire 5 and p9 wire 2 read 0 volts... i DID ask about this various places and the consensus was that it's not an issue... <REST SNIPPED> > >--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - > Error Messages Are Your Friends > >--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - hello and thanks again for answering [...below...] > >there's no reason i want it... i could comment it. problem though is that the > >pc's floppy drive does not function at all so if i have to boot off a floppy > >i can't > > Might this be the reason why the computer is starting slowly? Perhaps > it is trying to verify that the harddisk works. it has been doing that every <successful> boot for 10 days combined with MULTIPLE hd errors (scandisk is ok both windows and dos); multiple hdc failures "insert boot disk press any key" "drive not ready" (in the BIOS) the hd is set up correctly etc..... i still canNOT figure out why the floppy drive is not reading (sorry for going off topic) the floppy's errors were fdc failure / floppy drive failure; drive not ready etc it too is set up correctly and the boot diskS are working everywhere else currently there are no h/w errors fwiw > As to your other issues -- > > I would first REM out the a3init. That is, change the line to read > REM c:\windows\a3init.exe done (it didn't convey sound card audio anyway; just pc speaker beeps.) > Then if I saw nothing wrong, I would change the name of the > Autoexec.bat to Autoexec.baz. This will eliminate the Autoexec.bat > from the startup process. if it won't boot i could still get to the file via dos and rename it right? actually perhaps i should try the selective startUp way (just b/c i have no floppy drive --> no boot disk possibilities) > Then if I saw nothing wrong, I would change the name of the Config.sys > to Config.syz. This will eliminate the Config.sys from the startup > process. config.sys has device=c:\himen.sys which i thought needed to be there??? i guess i cannot ask in this group re: the floppy drive? > However, I would not expect either of these steps to speed up things > noticeably. As I pointed out in a separate message, you need to try a > Safe Mode startup and possibly to uninstall some programs that are > starting automatically. it's only got explorer and systray in the close program and NOTHING in startUp (nor the clock in systray) it actually is booting and loading faster... it's just very slow when in windows i'll try the safe mode though THANKS! > Bill Starbuck (MVP) p.s. being *A BIT* cautious b/c today it would NOT boot (had no video) but had beep codes... all the above were negated by using the other vesa slot for the video card (but this occurred spontaneously...) inline, and snipped..... > > >there's no reason i want it... i could comment it. problem though is that the > > >pc's floppy drive does not function at all so if i have to boot off a floppy [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > it too is set up correctly and the boot diskS are working everywhere else > currently there are no h/w errors fwiw Forget Scandisk at this point. It may well show no problems, when in fact the drive is about to die. If you floppy drive was working, you would run a disk diagnostic from the hard drive manufacturer, or the generic test from Seagate SeaTools, or OnTrack.....but these run from a bootable floppy disk. The fact that your floppy drive is giving errors also makes me wonder if the motherboard itself is going, unless the floppy controller and IDE controller are on a controller card, in which case I would suspect the controller card. However, the error below in your P.S., regarding the video failure requiring you to switch slots for the vid card, takes me back to the motherboard again. > p.s. being *A BIT* cautious b/c today it would NOT boot (had no video) but had > beep codes... > all the above were negated by using the other vesa slot for the video card (but > this occurred spontaneously...) I'd pull out all drives, install a different known-good floppy drive and cable, and try to boot from a bootable floppy disk. If this gets the floppy drive functional, then re-connect the hard drive with a known-good cable and boot from a floppy containing the hard disk diagnostics program. If you do not know the brand of the hard drive, download Seagate SeaTools. After it is downloaded, double-click it, and it will create a bootable floppy disk with the diagnostic program on it. Then boot your problem computer using the bootable floppy, and choose the Generic long test. It will create a report that you can read from within the program when the tests are complete, and it is also saved as a text file on the floppy disk. Alternately, you can use the evaluation version of Ontrack Data Advisor, which is the same program in its original version. They both are created the same way. Seagate SeaTools: http://download.microshopper.com/hardware/disks/seagate/seatoold.exe or http://www.seagate.com/support/seatools/B7a.html Error codes: http://www.seagate.com/support/npf/seatools/st_error_index.html Data Advisor: http://www.ontrack.com/freesoftware/#dataadvisor Installation instructions for both: http://www.ontrack.com/dataadvisor/downloadinfo.asp If you DO know the brand, find the diagnostics here: Fujitsu http://www.fcpa.fujitsu.com/download/hard-drives/#diagnostic IBM and Hitachi http://www.hgst.com/hdd/support/download.htm#DFT Maxtor http://www.maxtor.com/en/support/products/index.htm Seagate http://www.seagate.com/support/seatools/index.html Western Digital http://support.wdc.com/download/ or www.westerndigital.com  SignatureGlen Ventura, MS MVP W95/98 Systems http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm thanks Glen, [...below...] > inline, and snipped..... > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Forget Scandisk at this point. even scanDisk in dos? surface scan? btw i've defragged 2 times -- initially was 1% fragmented next time 0% > It may well show no problems, when in fact the drive is about to die. If you floppy drive was working, you would run a disk diagnostic from the hard drive manufacturer, or the generic test from Seagate SeaTools, or OnTrack.....but these run from a bootable floppy disk. The fact that your floppy drive is giving errors also makes me wonder if the motherboard itself is going, unless the floppy controller and IDE controller are on a controller card, in which case I would suspect the controller card. However, the error below in your P.S., regarding the video failure requiring you to switch slots for the vid card, takes me back to the motherboard again. sorry i have to repeat myself: i switched floppy data / ribbon cables from another 486 (isa) and the floppy sounds like a car that won't start -- a step forward really...so right now going test a working floppy drive if it works then i'll have a floppy and 'll be able to follow the above... > > p.s. being *A BIT* cautious b/c today it would NOT boot (had no video) but had > > beep codes... > > all the above were negated by using the other vesa slot for the video card (but > > this occurred spontaneously...) > > I'd pull out all drives, install a different known-good floppy drive and cable, and try to boot from a bootable floppy disk. If this gets the floppy drive functional, then re-connect the hard drive with a known-good cable and boot from a floppy containing the hard disk diagnostics program. ok > If you do not know the brand of the hard drive, download Seagate SeaTools. After it is downloaded, double-click it, and it will create a bootable floppy disk with the diagnostic program on it. Then boot your problem computer using the bootable floppy, and choose the Generic long test. It will create a report that you can read from within the program when the tests are complete, and it is also saved as a text file on the floppy disk. > [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > Glen Ventura, MS MVP W95/98 Systems > http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm thanks, Glen IF the floppy drive works and boots (now i'll have to make another bootdisk b/c if the rr heads are doing something wrong that'll likely wreck the disk and perhaps the next drive i would <NOT> use it on???) :) > > What is this? > > >c:\windows\a3init.exe > > i have no idea. It is an Asound sound card driver, for DOS sound, no doubt. SignatureGlen Ventura, MS MVP W95/98 Systems http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm > > > What is this? > > > >c:\windows\a3init.exe [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Glen Ventura, MS MVP W95/98 Systems > http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm it was and did not make any sound before or after (it doesn't have speakers thought -- no big deal) THANKS! > >just want to know whether the following lines in autoexec.bat are needed > > Neither Windows 95 nor Windows 98 requires an autoexec.bat or a > Config.sys. i wrote below why i am concerned re: removing them bc this machine ran dos (486dx) > What is this? > >c:\windows\a3init.exe i have no idea. > Unless there is some reason why you want to run a3init, you can delete > the Autoexec.bat. there's no reason i want it... i could comment it. problem though is that the pc's floppy drive does not function at all so if i have to boot off a floppy i can't however the a3init.exe is not a windows file is it? so likely it's just adding to the problem? > You can probably also delete the Config.sys file. One exception would > be a computer in which drive C: is a SCSI drive. it's ide however the controller is on the controller card in a vesa(?) slot. also the findFast -- those aren't essential are they? > Bill Starbuck (MVP) i also answered on your next post THANKS VERY MUCH! sincerely Tanya Your message has a title about a slow boot. The boot process ends before Windows starts, and if you are talking about this boot process, then there is probably something wrong with the computer hardware. Booting involves very little and so it normally ends quickly. On the other hand, you might be using the word "boot" to denote the startup of Windows. If Windows is starting slowly, this is very likely due to problems with the software that tells Windows how to cope with hardware. If this slow booting started recently, think back to see if you installed some new hardware just before Windows began to start slowly. Slow starting of Windows could be due to programs that are starting automatically when Windows starts up. Try starting Windows in Safe Mode. If Safe Mode starts quickly whereas Windows' Normal Mode starts very slowly, then you might investigate the programs that are starting automatically to see if one of them is causing the slow starts. Bill Starbuck (MVP) hello Bill, thanks for the reply [...below...] > Your message has a title about a slow boot. The boot process ends > before Windows starts, and if you are talking about this boot process, > then there is probably something wrong with the computer hardware. > Booting involves very little and so it normally ends quickly. my erroneous definition *was* that the time from powering the pc on to viewing the deskTop was the boot process > On the other hand, you might be using the word "boot" to denote the > startup of Windows. If Windows is starting slowly, this is very likely > due to problems with the software that tells Windows how to cope with > hardware. If this slow booting started recently, think back to see if > you installed some new hardware just before Windows began to start > slowly. this belongs to a friend... it was not booting at all initially (i.e. past the cmos) (i guess loading windows is better terminology?) there are h/w problems (i removed the modem etc) however, my concern is that this is a 486dx processor and i thought i'd read that since it originally ran dos, there were exceptions to the autoexec.bat and config.sys being needed... > Slow starting of Windows could be due to programs that are starting > automatically when Windows starts up. Try starting Windows in Safe > Mode. i already did and it took the same amount of time (guestimating) > If Safe Mode starts quickly whereas Windows' Normal Mode starts > very slowly, then you might investigate the programs that are starting > automatically to see if one of them is causing the slow starts. also the cd-rom is not attached currently and when i hit esc to see what was occurring during the loading process there was mention of not finding the cd rom which i guess is the line: LH C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\MSDEX/D:MSCD000 i could comment this for now? > Bill Starbuck (MVP) i have answered the above post too many thanks! sincerely Tanya On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 13:22:27 -0500, Tanya >486 which finally loaded windows 95B (very slowly) There are 486s and 486s. Is yours an ISA-bus era 486 or a PCI-bus 486DXn? >just want to know whether the following lines in autoexec.bat are needed >autoexec.bat >@ECHO OFF >prompt $P$G >path c:\windows;c:\windows\command;c:\dos Don't ever keep old OS versions in the Path; rather use a different Path'd dir for non-OS utils, e.g... path c:\windows;c:\windows\command;c:\tools >set temp = c:\dos That's a Really Bad Idea [TM] that illustrates early MS cluelessness (duh, why shouldn't I dump huge wads of frequently-sritten files in the OS dir? Answer; because it will extend, fragment and slow down access to the dir as well as risk corrupting it altogether( >LH C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\MSDEX/D:MSCD000 >(if this is for the cd-rom -- it is not connected on purpose for now) Take that out anyway. Real-mode CD-ROM drivers are better served via DOSStart.bat for "Use with current..." .pif (requires util such as CTLoad to avoid need for Config.sys involvement) or better still, the private startup files within a "Specify a new..." >c:\windows\a3init.exe Starts up the sound card; prolly harmless, can relocate to DOSStart.bat and "Specify..." private Autoexec.bat >in startUp it has cleanSweep 95 instal monitor and cleanSweep 95 usage >monitor Tora! Tora! Tora! Kill those bloaters!!! What's Config.sys like? >--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - Error Messages Are Your Friends >--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - thanks for the reply... [...below...] > On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 13:22:27 -0500, Tanya > > >486 which finally loaded windows 95B (very slowly) > > There are 486s and 486s. > Is yours an ISA-bus era 486 or a PCI-bus 486DXn? this pc is the ISA-bus with "3" VESA slots (now 2 working) the case cover states "486 cache" > >just want to know whether the following lines in autoexec.bat are needed > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Don't ever keep old OS versions in the Path; rather use a different > Path'd dir for non-OS utils, e.g... i cannot take *any* credit for setting up the os. i'm trying to troubleShoot it for someone. > path c:\windows;c:\windows\command;c:\tools i assume this will not effect the boot load process? > >set temp = c:\dos > > That's a Really Bad Idea [TM] that illustrates early MS cluelessness > (duh, why shouldn't I dump huge wads of frequently-sritten files in > the OS dir? Answer; because it will extend, fragment and slow down > access to the dir as well as risk corrupting it altogether( ok so that'll go... just comment out...? > >LH C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\MSDEX/D:MSCD000 > >(if this is for the cd-rom -- it is not connected on purpose for now) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > CTLoad to avoid need for Config.sys involvement) or better still, the > private startup files within a "Specify a new..." i'll comment that 1 now (btw reference to the cd-rom drive is in config.sys as well) so i should be editing dosstart.bat not sure re: the above..... > >c:\windows\a3init.exe > > Starts up the sound card; prolly harmless, can relocate to > DOSStart.bat and "Specify..." private Autoexec.bat it's mute anyway so i remmed it -- no real effect > >in startUp it has cleanSweep 95 instal monitor and cleanSweep 95 usage > >monitor > > Tora! Tora! Tora! Kill those bloaters!!! they're gone only explorer and systray in the close program and nothing in startUp. > What's Config.sys like? DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\SETVER.EXE DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEN.SYS <note re: the above line doesn't it have to stay?> DOS=HIGH DEVICEHIGH=C:\CDROM\GSCDROM.SYS/D:MSCD000/V (that'll go with its autoexec.bat counterpart for now) > >--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - > Error Messages Are Your Friends > >--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - thanks again and if you have a chance to verify / confirm the above, i''d appreciate it! On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 17:29:21 -0500, Tanya >> On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 13:22:27 -0500, Tanya >> >486 which finally loaded windows 95B (very slowly) >> Is yours an ISA-bus era 486 or a PCI-bus 486DXn? >this pc is the ISA-bus with "3" VESA slots (now 2 working) >the case cover states "486 cache" OK; I'd expect poor to middling performance, and exquisite sensitivity to additional demands on the processor (e.g. underfootware, malware, drivers for "soft" hardware). Most "soft" hardware is PCI, but there were some "soft" ISA modems and sound cards (ALS is OK) >> >autoexec.bat >> >@ECHO OFF >> >prompt $P$G >> >path c:\windows;c:\windows\command;c:\dos >> Don't ever keep old OS versions in the Path; rather use a different >> Path'd dir for non-OS utils, e.g... >i cannot take *any* credit for setting up the os. i'm trying to troubleShoot >it for someone. Tactfully put ;-) >> path c:\windows;c:\windows\command;c:\tools >i assume this will not effect the boot load process? No. What I'd do is have a look at C:\DOS and see if there are any .bat files or non-Microsoft executables present. If so, they may have used C:\DOS as a dumping ground for 3rd-party utilities that the system still needs to have in the Path after the upgrade to Win9x (e.g. to run unattended backups by batching PKZip etc.). If so, copy those files to a C:\TOOLS and edit the Path as shown. If OTOH no C:\DOS exists, or all the .com and .exe files in C:\DOS are parts of DOS (charactaristic time stamps such as 06:22 for DOS 6.22 etc. is how you can guess) then just take C:\DOS out of the Path, and don't worry about creating a C:\Tools or Pathing it (unless you want to add your own grab-bag of tools to the Path). In practice, I'd do this... path c:\windows;c:\windows\command REM path c:\windows;c:\windows\command;c:\dos ...as an undoable trial. >> >set temp = c:\dos >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >ok so that'll go... >just comment out...? That one you can kill, but your instincts are spot-on :-) >> >LH C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\MSDEX/D:MSCD000 >> >(if this is for the cd-rom -- it is not connected on purpose for now) >> Take that out anyway. Real-mode CD-ROM drivers are better served via >> DOSStart.bat for "Use with current..." .pif (requires util such as >> CTLoad to avoid need for Config.sys involvement) or better still, the >> private startup files within a "Specify a new..." >i'll comment that 1 now OK. See http://users.iafrica.com/c/cq/cquirke/whatdos.htm if you are interested in getting the most out of both DOS mode and Windows, as your subject line suggests. A slow old PC will thank you! >(btw reference to the cd-rom drive is in config.sys as well) The usual mileage is that the driver in Config.sys will be ignored when in Windows with no ill-effects, but an un-REMmed-out MSCDEx is quite likely to cause problems, such as DOS compat mode, duplicate drive letters for the optical drive, failure to auto-detect inserted CDs (a consequence of DOS compatibility mode) etc. In practice, the Config.sys driver is sometimes not ignored and causes problems too. I'm a but surprised the installation of Win95 didn't find and REM out the MSCDEx line; it usually does. How are the HD and CD wired up inside the case? Usual best practice (especially for this vintage, where inter-device slowdowns were more of a problem when two drives shared the same IDE channel) is to have the HD as sole device (master) on primary, and CD on secondary IDE channel. But VL-bus secondary channels never seem to work in my experience, so you'd prolly have to have the HD as master and CD as slave, both on the primary channel. OTOH, they may have needed the CD drivers in both Config.sys and Autoexec.bat to have the drive work at all, if Windows cannot otherwise see the VL-bus secondary IDE. This will of course cause DOS compatibility mode (ouch!) and loss of auto-insert notification (shrug), as is always the case when real-mode disk drivers are used. See http://users.iafrica.com/c/cq/cquirke/doscompat.htm >so i should be editing dosstart.bat not sure re: the above..... See http://users.iafrica.com/c/cq/cquirke/whatdos.htm there; quite a bit of detail on "Use with current..." vs. "Specify a new..." etc. >> >c:\windows\a3init.exe >> Starts up the sound card; prolly harmless, can relocate to >> DOSStart.bat and "Specify..." private Autoexec.bat >it's mute anyway so i remmed it -- no real effect OK. From my experience, it's not a bummer. In fact, the ALS-100 was quite a good sound card for its time; all-hardware, and one of the few generics that successfully ran as a Sound Blaster 16 in most DOS games (most have to pretend to be Sound Blaster Pro). >> >in startUp it has cleanSweep 95 instal monitor and cleanSweep 95 usage >> >monitor >> Tora! Tora! Tora! Kill those bloaters!!! >they're gone only explorer and systray in the close program and nothing in >startUp. OK. Bear in mind that Ctl+Alt+Del won't show you services (loaded via the RunServices keys in HKLM and/or HKCU); to spot those, download MS's WinTop (one of the KernelToys) or 3rd-party similar. >> What's Config.sys like? >DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\SETVER.EXE >DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEN.SYS ><note re: the above line doesn't it have to stay?> >DOS=HIGH >DEVICEHIGH=C:\CDROM\GSCDROM.SYS/D:MSCD000/V >(that'll go with its autoexec.bat counterpart for now) Yes, there's nothing there that DOS=Auto (the default behaviour) doesn't do better anyway (DeviceHigh and all that) I'd also step back a bit and check the HD for surface errors - incipient failure may cause profound slowdown due to retries even if Scandisk surface scan hasn't yet detected these as B(ad) blocks. Do a formal virus check, too! Other hardware defects (RAM, fans) would cause crashes rather than slowdown, unless a CMOS disablement of L1 or L2 cache has been set to mask a stability problem. See http://users.iafrica.com/c/cq/cquirke/bthink.htm on preliminary testing, and http://users.iafrica.com/c/cq/cquirke/virtest.htm on the hows and whys of formal virus testing. Old PCs may have old viruses, and a boot sector virus would cause DOS compatibility mode slowdown. Once you know the hardware is sound and stable, you can clear out the Temp files, clear Temporary Internet Files (TIF), reduce the TIF cache to 20M or less, and do a defrag to speed things up. >--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - Error Messages Are Your Friends >--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - hello [...below...] > On Mon, 05 Jan 2004 17:29:21 -0500, Tanya > >> On Sun, 04 Jan 2004 13:22:27 -0500, Tanya [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > drivers for "soft" hardware). Most "soft" hardware is PCI, but there > were some "soft" ISA modems and sound cards (ALS is OK) i removed the isa modem... if it ever gets off the ground i *would* get it a hardWare modem 56K but very doubtful that'll happen > >> Don't ever keep old OS versions in the Path; rather use a different > >> Path'd dir for non-OS utils, e.g... [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > (e.g. to run unattended backups by batching PKZip etc.). If so, copy > those files to a C:\TOOLS and edit the Path as shown. it has a LARGE number of *.*exe, *.*bat i'll be doing that tomorrow... > If OTOH no C:\DOS exists, or all the .com and .exe files in C:\DOS are > parts of DOS (charactaristic time stamps such as 06:22 for DOS 6.22 [quoted text clipped - 57 lines] > > See http://users.iafrica.com/c/cq/cquirke/doscompat.htm thanks for this link and the others.... > >so i should be editing dosstart.bat not sure re: the above..... > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > the RunServices keys in HKLM and/or HKCU); to spot those, download > MS's WinTop (one of the KernelToys) or 3rd-party similar. i'll do that > >> What's Config.sys like? > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > cause crashes rather than slowdown, unless a CMOS disablement of L1 or > L2 cache has been set to mask a stability problem. viral check definitely... it doesn't have one (antiVirus) > See http://users.iafrica.com/c/cq/cquirke/bthink.htm on preliminary > testing, and http://users.iafrica.com/c/cq/cquirke/virtest.htm on the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Temp files, clear Temporary Internet Files (TIF), reduce the TIF cache > to 20M or less, and do a defrag to speed things up. i used seaGate's generic test (from bootable floppy) mem was ok hd 1 (C) was ok; HOWEVER it stated that there's BIOS drives... 2-4 (hex (81, 82 etc) all 10 mb they all failed the tests i/o mbr etc do you know what a bios drive is? fdisk only shows 1 drive. thanks again for the explanations! sincerely Tanya > >--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - > Error Messages Are Your Friends > >--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - again apologize for not answering questions asked and for not snipping......... > OK; I'd expect poor to middling performance, and exquisite sensitivity > to additional demands on the processor (e.g. underfootware, malware, [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > (e.g. to run unattended backups by batching PKZip etc.). If so, copy > those files to a C:\TOOLS and edit the Path as shown. C:\DOS is full of many .bats and exe and .coms Microsoft's. (like defrag; chdkk drivespace and others) i don't see third party.... fwiw i was going to copy now but there is no tools unless of course i should make one? ;-) i'm trying to compare my p 200 mmx (win95B) there's no c:\dos nor c:\tools either also is there a chance that the dos directory contains older (sameNamed) files which are used by other programs and are not compatible with newer (i can go and look) actually i just did and there are so far all different sizes (not the .bats) but the.coms and the exe's. the ones in c:\dos are smaller than the ones in win:\command but same names so i am going to wait until replied to before moving them due to confusion > If OTOH no C:\DOS exists, or all the .com and .exe files in C:\DOS are > parts of DOS (charactaristic time stamps such as 06:22 for DOS 6.22 > etc. is how you can guess) only a few are dos so i guess it contains all windows and related... what i really should do is compare windows content with c:\dos contents. well i compare btwn C:\win\command and c:\dos. do i still create a tools directory? > then just take C:\DOS out of the Path, and > don't worry about creating a C:\Tools or Pathing it (unless you want > to add your own grab-bag of tools to the Path). i'll await your reply. > In practice, I'd do this... > > path c:\windows;c:\windows\command > REM path c:\windows;c:\windows\command;c:\dos > > ...as an undoable trial. i just found windows\command with what looks like many duplicates (however for example c:\dos has xcopy.exe whereas win\command contains xcopy.exe AND xcopy32.exe (see above too:) > >> >set temp = c:\dos here's a <major> finding (problem) windows\temp contains A LOT MORE FILE extensions than tmp. i almost deleted the contents but did not. it has exe's a number of dlls etc. i just wonder whether i should do a find for all the questionable files to see whether these in temp are duplicates is there any way that the "set temp = c:\dos" could have confused things? > >> That's a Really Bad Idea [TM] that illustrates early MS cluelessness > >> (duh, why shouldn't I dump huge wads of frequently-sritten files in > >> the OS dir? Answer; because it will extend, fragment and slow down > >> access to the dir as well as risk corrupting it altogether( there are only a very few tmp's in the c:\dos directory fwiw. > >ok so that'll go... > >just comment out...? > > That one you can kill, but your instincts are spot-on :-) will > >> >LH C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\MSDEX/D:MSCD000 > >> >(if this is for the cd-rom -- it is not connected on purpose for now) [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > interested in getting the most out of both DOS mode and Windows, as > your subject line suggests. A slow old PC will thank you! well i am... > >(btw reference to the cd-rom drive is in config.sys as well) > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > drive letters for the optical drive, failure to auto-detect inserted > CDs (a consequence of DOS compatibility mode) etc. there is NO DOS compatibility mode under properties and no splats in device mgr also before i forget it boots w/ 96% avail resources and this remains! (there's no meter nor system monitor on it and won't be until i get the cd-rom to run) > In practice, the Config.sys driver is sometimes not ignored and causes > problems too. I'm a but surprised the installation of Win95 didn't > find and REM out the MSCDEx line; it usually does. > How are the HD and CD wired up inside the case? Usual best practice > (especially for this vintage, where inter-device slowdowns were more [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > experience, so you'd prolly have to have the HD as master and CD as > slave, both on the primary channel. ok i see what a channel is BUT there's only ONE ide controller on the controller card so how could it obtain a 2'ary IDE CONTROLLER > OTOH, they may have needed the CD drivers in both Config.sys and > Autoexec.bat to have the drive work at all, if Windows cannot > otherwise see the VL-bus secondary IDE. This will of course cause DOS > compatibility mode (ouch!) and loss of auto-insert notification > (shrug), as is always the case when real-mode disk drivers are used. i've just commented it out for now > See http://users.iafrica.com/c/cq/cquirke/doscompat.htm > > >so i should be editing dosstart.bat not sure re: the above..... there doesn't appear to be a dosstart.bat anywhere on it i think i am catching whatever the pc has :) > See http://users.iafrica.com/c/cq/cquirke/whatdos.htm there; quite a > bit of detail on "Use with current..." vs. "Specify a new..." etc. [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > generics that successfully ran as a Sound Blaster 16 in most DOS games > (most have to pretend to be Sound Blaster Pro). > >> >in startUp it has cleanSweep 95 instal monitor and cleanSweep 95 usage > >> >monitor > > >> Tora! Tora! Tora! Kill those bloaters!!! major thing here (it's still there mainly b/c i used uninstaller (not uininstal) and that was just before the pc totally failed (and this pc acts similar to mine btw) that was a nightMare i uninstalled it then i couldn't uninstal or run many things that i had installed (or hadn't) when it was there) SOOoo i am going to leave it for now (where it is NOT obviously doing anything) but it may be perhaps that's why the MAJOR stall is "starting win 95..." > >they're gone only explorer and systray in the close program and nothing in > >startUp. > > OK. Bear in mind that Ctl+Alt+Del won't show you services (loaded via > the RunServices keys in HKLM and/or HKCU); to spot those, download > MS's WinTop (one of the KernelToys) or 3rd-party similar. another point: the pc has a 500 mb drive; (until last pm 45 mbs were taken up by the recycle bin) so now it has 100 mbs left. plus it doesn't have winzip.(so all i can instal are < 1.44 mbs) (diskette) (isn't there a pkunzip from dos on the system or something?) i guess it would be stupid for me to edit the registry (the runOnce?) LOL > >> What's Config.sys like? > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > >DEVICEHIGH=C:\CDROM\GSCDROM.SYS/D:MSCD000/V > >(that'll go with its autoexec.bat counterpart for now) himen.sys is in the c:\dos directory fwiw these are still on the pc > Yes, there's nothing there that DOS=Auto (the default behaviour) > doesn't do better anyway (DeviceHigh and all that) [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > cause crashes rather than slowdown, unless a CMOS disablement of L1 or > L2 cache has been set to mask a stability problem. i guess i should look next boot for this (btw, the BIOS is 7/25/94) > See http://users.iafrica.com/c/cq/cquirke/bthink.htm on preliminary > testing, and http://users.iafrica.com/c/cq/cquirke/virtest.htm on the > hows and whys of formal virus testing. Old PCs may have old viruses, > and a boot sector virus would cause DOS compatibility mode slowdown. i cannot find only a bootable virus scanner from f-prot. > Once you know the hardware is sound and stable, you can clear out the > Temp files, clear Temporary Internet Files (TIF), reduce the TIF cache > to 20M or less, and do a defrag to speed things up. i have my doubts... it's been defragged 2 times no improvement i also got plain windows background on the desktop (vs tiling clouds which it had) plus set back h/w acceleration -- it's no better there's nothing in int temp but as i <hope> i mentioned above the temp directory is full of nonTemp files (they're in folders with extensions like .aaa~, .aab~) also re: the test (h/w) this is a repeat from above post btw: ram was fine (although it has 36 mbs) and drive 1 ("msdos-6_c" is fine (files, surface etc but it has 3 BIOS drives each 10 mbs and at 82, 83 hexes etc)) and these all failed sector 7968 i/o error; error reading mbr; surface sectors 0-9 all i/o errors. and as mentioned fdisk has ONE C partition; fat 16...100% usage) so main problems: 1. slow from "starting win95" sorry -- i still need to do the safe mode and selective startUp) 2. hd is 500 and has 100 mbs "free" 3. very slow in windows -- mouse has delayed effect 4. temp file contains otherThanTemp files 5. C:\dos. 6. windows:\command 7. following getting to the desktop, the hd continues making noise as though it's loading things. 8. the failed bios drives. > >--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - > Error Messages Are Your Friends > >--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - thanks and sorry for any (or all) duplications / omissions i'll check your Web site links now sincerely Tanya inline, below.... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tanya" <tjtmdREMOVE_THIS@attglobal.net> Newsgroups: microsoft.public.win95.general.discussion Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 1:22 PM Subject: extremely slow boot in a 486 (windows95B) > hello and happy new year > 486 which finally loaded windows 95B (very slowly) [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > the floppy drive does not work in dos, in windows (but is in the BIOS)) > if anyone could advise it would be very much appreciated! The floppy drive does not work in DOS or in Windows? Check the cables and if still no joy, replace the floppy drive. > autoexec.bat > @ECHO OFF [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > (if this is for the cd-rom -- it is not connected on purpose for now) > c:\windows\a3init.exe Nothing is needed in the autoexec.bat file except a3init.exe for DOS sound, and this can be loaded elsewhere, as Chris suggests. The DOS folder as the temp variable is a terrible idea....one of MS' bigger goofs, I think, from the DOS days....there are some horror stories about that. > in startUp it has cleanSweep 95 instal monitor and cleanSweep 95 usage > monitor Yikes! I would ditch CleanSweep altogether, ASAP. Uninstall. Please post the config.sys file also....glen -- Glen Ventura, MS MVP W95/98 Systems hi Glen, [...below...] actually i have nearly diagnosed the floppy and the book (A book) i have was wrong where it states that ANY TIME one sees drive not ready or reentry abort fail this is supposed to be indicative of the floppy DISK WRONG > inline, below.... > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > The floppy drive does not work in DOS or in Windows? Check the cables and if still > no joy, replace the floppy drive. almost done > > autoexec.bat > > @ECHO OFF [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > The DOS folder as the temp variable is a terrible idea....one of MS' bigger goofs, I > think, from the DOS days....there are some horror stories about that. so i just remove that line and when i understand dosstart.bat i edit it -- iow it's not going to cause the pc problems???? > > in startUp it has cleanSweep 95 instal monitor and cleanSweep 95 usage > > monitor > > Yikes! I would ditch CleanSweep altogether, ASAP. Uninstall. > Please post the config.sys file also....glen i did here it is again LOL > -- > Glen Ventura, MS MVP W95/98 Systems config.sys DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\SETVER.EXE DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\HIMEN.SYS <note re: the above line doesn't it have to stay?> DOS=HIGH DEVICEHIGH=C:\CDROM\GSCDROM.SYS/D:MSCD000/V (that'll go with its autoexec.bat counterpart for now) nb i want to keep the himen.sys don't i? thanks sincerely Tanya inline...... <snippage> > > > autoexec.bat > > > @ECHO OFF [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > so i just remove that line and when i understand dosstart.bat i edit it -- iow it's not > going to cause the pc problems???? I would just rename the entire autoexec.bat to autoexec.ba_ for now, as you do not need any of it in Windows. > > > in startUp it has cleanSweep 95 instal monitor and cleanSweep 95 usage > > > monitor [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > nb i want to keep the himen.sys don't i? Don't need anything there either, for Windows...you should also be able to rename this file to config.sy_ with no problems. SignatureGlen Ventura, MS MVP W95/98 Systems http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm thanks again, Glen [...below...] > inline...... > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > I would just rename the entire autoexec.bat to autoexec.ba_ for now, as you do not need any of it in Windows. ok <snip> > > config.sys > > DEVICE=C:\WINDOWS\SETVER.EXE [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Don't need anything there either, for Windows...you should also be able to rename this file to config.sy_ with no problems. i removed config.sys from a win98 se pc (PIII) and it gave blue screens re: himen.sys -- perhaps i should put it somewhere else or just leave it? thanks again sincerely Tanya p.s. a bad floppy drive could cause a system not to boot or to have errors -- couldn't it? THANKS! > -- > Glen Ventura, MS MVP W95/98 Systems > http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm If you *must* have himem.sys in a config.sys file to boot, there is usually something else wrong. If you don't want to rename it, then comment out all the lines except that one. Yes, bad floppy drive *could* interfere with boot up, but you say it is recognised by the BIOS, so I have doubts that is the problem. SignatureGlen Ventura, MS MVP W95/98 Systems http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm > thanks again, Glen > [...below...] [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > Glen Ventura, MS MVP W95/98 Systems > > http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm thanks for the reply....... > If you *must* have himem.sys in a config.sys file to boot, there is usually something else wrong. If you don't want to rename it, then comment out all the lines except that one. > [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > > > Glen Ventura, MS MVP W95/98 Systems > > > http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm Continuing via email, temporarily..... SignatureGlen Ventura, MS MVP W95/98 Systems http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm > thanks for the reply....... > [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > > > > Glen Ventura, MS MVP W95/98 Systems > > > > http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm |
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