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Windows Forum / Windows 98 / Internet / March 2006How to remove modem's playback and recording drivers and start counting from #0 again?
Hello, I have noticed, that each time I reinstall my modem (uninstall and install it again). the number associated with Playback (and Recording) device increases. At that moment my modem uses: Modem #5 Line Playback and Modem #5 Line Record. My questions: 1. Does it really matter what that number actually is? 2. What has happened to #0 to #4 line devices? Where are they? 3. I would feel better if my modem started using #0 device again. How to do that? Removing modem and Unimodem from Device Manager does not help. The next modem installation will rise that number again. Please help, Penny > Hello, > I have noticed, that each time I reinstall my modem (uninstall [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Please help, > Penny This behavior is normal and harmless. Leave it be. >Hello, > I have noticed, that each time I reinstall my modem (uninstall [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >Please help, >Penny Can you remove the duplicate entries via the Modems applet in Control Panel? - Franc Zabkar  SignaturePlease remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email. No. You do not understand. I do not have multiple instances of modem driver installed. I do not have multiple instances of playback and recording modem devices installed. Device Manager shows only 1 modem and 1 Unimodem installed. It is only the numbering of that devices which puzzles me. Anyone else? Penny >>Hello, >> I have noticed, that each time I reinstall my modem (uninstall [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > - Franc Zabkar Boot into Safe Mode and remove ALL of those devices. Restart and reinstall devices as necessary. SignatureGary S. Terhune MS MVP Shell/User > No. > You do not understand. [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > > > - Franc Zabkar You are not paying attention what I said. I am sorry to say that, but your response has NOTHING to do with my questions. Penny > Boot into Safe Mode and remove ALL of those devices. Restart and reinstall > devices as necessary. [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] >> > >> > - Franc Zabkar Perhaps there is a misunderstanding. Where are these "playback" and "line record" devices listed. If they're listed in Device Manager, then proceed as I suggested. In Safe Mode, you're liable to find a total of ten such devices listed. If these devices are listed elsewhere, where is that? SignatureGary S. Terhune MS MVP Shell/User > You are not paying attention what I said. > I am sorry to say that, but your response has NOTHING to do with my [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > >> > > >> > - Franc Zabkar You are NOT a hardware man Gary, aren't you? :) No. Playback and Recording devices such as: Modem #5 Line Playback and Modem #5 Line Record. are NOT shown under Device Manager. They are listed in Control Panel >Sounds & Audio Devices under Audio tab. These devices are part of modem's unimodem driver (wave driver) and they are gone when the modem is uninstalled. However, when modem is installed again these devices will be installed with 1 number higher then the last ones. I repeat: If I uninstall my modem now and install it again, the new devices in Control Panel >Sounds & Audio Devices under Audio tab will be listed as: Modem #6 Line Playback and Modem #6 Line Record. Please tell me, which part don't you understand? Penny > Perhaps there is a misunderstanding. Where are these "playback" and "line > record" devices listed. [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] >> >> > >> >> > - Franc Zabkar I understand all of it, now, and the answer is to ignore the number. Unless you want to get into Registry hacking, in which case you should already know the answer. SignatureGary S. Terhune MS MVP Shell/User > You are NOT a hardware man Gary, aren't you? :) > No. [quoted text clipped - 70 lines] > >> >> > > >> >> > - Franc Zabkar >You are NOT a hardware man Gary, aren't you? :) >No. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >Panel >Sounds & Audio Devices under Audio tab will be listed as: >Modem #6 Line Playback and Modem #6 Line Record. See my other post which describes my personal experiences with a similar (?) problem. In your case, since you do not appear to be able to resolve your issue via CP or DM, I would endeavour to determine where in the registry the various entries are stored. I would first uninstall your modem and then export the registry to a file named before.reg, say. Then I would reinstall your modem and export the new registry to a file named after.reg. I would then compare the two files from the DOS prompt, as follows: fc before.reg after.reg > diff.txt To view the changes, type ... edit /r diff.txt There is a little more detail in this post: http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion/msg/a163aac 85017f2dd?dmode=source&hl=en - Franc Zabkar SignaturePlease remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email. > You are not paying attention what I said. > I am sorry to say that, but your response has NOTHING to do with my > questions. Penny, I very much dislike you rude words here! The people responding to your problem are doing it voluntarily, at no charge, in their free time, just trying to help you. Think about your attitude! BTW what is the actual _problem_ you encounter? I don't see an issue just because of the increasing numeration. Why are you repeatedly re-installing the same modem? What's the purpose of it? Please clarify. <rant> If you like re-installing so much, then just re-install the OS and the counter will be reset ;-) </rant> SignatureBest Regards Andreas Marschall Microsoft MVP for TAPI / Windows SDK TAPI / TSP Developer and Tester My TAPI and TSPI FAQ: http://www.I-B-A-M.de/Andreas_Marschall's_TAPI_and_TSPI_FAQ.htm My Toto® Tools (a collection of free, mostly TAPI related tools): http://www.i-b-a-m.de/Andreas_Marschall's_Toto_Tools.htm TAPI development around the world (Frappr! map): http://www.frappr.com/TAPIaroundTheWorld * Please post all messages and replies to the newsgroup so all may * benefit from the discussion. Private mail is usually not replied to. * This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights. HELP!!!! Please help me someone, but if possible not MVP. First, I was pushed over the brink, because one MVP did not read my post and just made some assumptions and gave me a standard, automatic and not addressing my questions at all answer. Now, second MVP is telling me that I am rude, and all of you are right and knights and volunteers. That is very nice, but if you have nothing to say on merit why do you take any bandwidth here. Relax, and drink coffee instead. I am not rude. I am just hot tempered when dealing with morons!!! I have a valid point. I do not want to reinstall OS, because that is absurd answer for that problem. I just want to reset that counter!!!! I have already spent significant amount of time browsing through registry, and I am not able to find it. Is it a Windows bug? Known to Microsoft? Is there another way to reset that counter then reinstalling Windows? I am a curious girl. I can live with that, but isn't that human to look for the right answers????? Penny >> You are not paying attention what I said. >> I am sorry to say that, but your response has NOTHING to do with my [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > will be reset ;-) > </rant> I'm not going to bother responding to your juvenile flame-thrower taunts. Here's the facts. All information contained in the Device Manager is a reflection of certain entries in the Registry (HKLM\ENUM). That crap in the Sounds and Audio Devices dialogue is likewise a reflection of certain entries in the Registry. IF the entries you are concerned about are not reflected in the Device Manager, then you have no choice -- Ignore them or get ready for Registry hacking. IF the entries are reflected in Device Manager, you can boot to Safe Mode, remove all the entries (and the rest of your duplicate device entries), then restart and reinstall as necessary. Your modem is obviously one of those that includes a mic/earphone capability. If you use neither, then the quickest way out of this mess is to ignore them. If on the other hand you wish to fix the problem then you have to ask nicely for assistance in Registry hacking. At that point, it's ALL your fault. Nobody in his/her right mind offers Registry assistance without a complete disavowal of responsibility. SignatureGary S. Terhune MS MVP Shell/User Now, your reply is more professional. :-) Thank you. I am very knowledgeable about computers. I am not new to the registry editing either. I am also a telephony software developer. I know my questions are technical in nature and above what a regular user will ask. But I've posted them in the correct forums, right? Someone should now the answer to my questions. I am not looking for the quick fix. I do not need one. I need to know more. Is that a Windows bug, that the device counter will increase of 1 with each installation? Why, removing the modem does not reset that counter to 0 ???? Why, Andreas are you concerned about me installing modem so many times? Have you thought that I need to do that just to test different modems or another hardware? There could be many reasons to do that, and that has nothing to do with my questions. I expected that you, MVP of TAPI could say more on the subject instead of lashing at me. I am surprised, after searching Google, nobody before me asked that question before. Boys, and they taught me that boys are technical. Are they real? Penny > I'm not going to bother responding to your juvenile flame-thrower taunts. > Here's the facts. [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > without > a complete disavowal of responsibility. > Now, your reply is more professional. :-) Gee, thanks. > Thank you. > I am very knowledgeable about computers. I am not new to the registry > editing either. Then you should have already figured out how to find and delete the extraneous entries for the modem. > I am also a telephony software developer. God help us. > I know my questions are technical in nature and above what a regular user > will ask. Not what a professional would ask, either. A pro, especially a computer telephony pro, would already know. > But I've posted them in the correct forums, right? You could have left out the .win98.comm.modem group if you wanted purely SDK groups. >Someone should now the answer to my questions. I am not looking for the > quick fix. > I do not need one. > I need to know more. Is that a Windows bug, that the device counter will > increase of 1 with each installation? > Why, removing the modem does not reset that counter to 0 ???? The "problem" is in the modem's uninstall INF file -- it doesn't remove the appropriate registry entries. And/or a reinstall doesn't remove/replace entreis. Ergo, it is not a "Windows bug". It is a SNAFU created by the modem vendor. What are you, a trainee? SignatureGary S. Terhune MS MVP Shell/User > What are you, a trainee? I think, we all are in the same boat: Trainees, until death as apart. At least I am willing to learn and understand something, which is not so obvious to everyone. :-) Penny > HELP!!!! > Please help me someone, but if possible not MVP. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Penny STOP MUCKING WITH IT IF IT WORKS!! IF YOU KEEP PULLING OUT THE CARD AND REINSERTING IT WILL KEEP DOING THIS. Windows sees this as a new instance of the modem. It has ZERO effect on whether it works or not. What WILL have an effect on whether it works or not is if you keep handling that card, eventually you WILL zap it, or your motherboard with static electricity. STOP IT AND LEAVE IT ALONE! The problem you have is perceived and not actual. DO NOT RESET THE COUNTER. No good will come of it. The behavior is not a bug. It is a feature to allow windows to handle mulitple instances of the same card. Since you have been rude to everybody who has told you this, have you considered that you may be wrong and not everybxody else? Have you gave it a thought it could be an external USB modem, not PCI one ??? :-( I am pulling out nothing, I am zapping nothing. How about that? :-) Penny >> HELP!!!! >> Please help me someone, but if possible not MVP. [quoted text clipped - 42 lines] > Since you have been rude to everybody who has told you this, have you > considered that you may be wrong and not everybxody else? > Have you gave it a thought it could be an external USB modem, not PCI one > ??? > :-( > I am pulling out nothing, I am zapping nothing. > How about that? > :-) Penny It actually doesn't matter. You can *still* zap it through the USB cord. >Device Manager shows only 1 modem and 1 Unimodem installed. >It is only the numbering of that devices which puzzles me. I have sometimes seen references to a modem in Control Panel (Phone and Modems applet) but not referenced in Device Manager. Or maybe it was vice versa but the point is check in both places. -mhd Of course, I am monitoring not only these 2 places but also Control Panel >Sounds & Audio Devices where both PlayBack and Recording devices are listed. Anyone else? please :) Penny >>Device Manager shows only 1 modem and 1 Unimodem installed. >>It is only the numbering of that devices which puzzles me. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > -mhd If they're listed in Device Manager, remove all such devices in Safe Mode. If only listed in Sounds & Audio, ignore the number. SignatureGary S. Terhune MS MVP Shell/User > Of course, I am monitoring not only these 2 places but also Control Panel > >Sounds & Audio Devices where both PlayBack and Recording devices are [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > > > -mhd PS -- If your Control Panel shows a "Sounds and Audio" applet then it isn't a normal Windows 98 installation. The applet you speak of is normally known as "Multimedia". Your first three posts mention nothing about where you are getting the listings, and in fact intimate that you are talking about the Device Manager. That, and you're talking about a not-usual modem. Really, you're a snot-nosed wannabee, right? SignatureGary S. Terhune MS MVP Shell/User > Of course, I am monitoring not only these 2 places but also Control Panel > >Sounds & Audio Devices where both PlayBack and Recording devices are [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > > > -mhd Where did you get that Windows 98 stuff from???? I am talking about Window XP SP2. Maybe I posted it in the wrong forum? I have already asked that question before. :-) Penny > PS -- If your Control Panel shows a "Sounds and Audio" applet then it > isn't [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >> > >> > -mhd Yes, you are in the wrong forum - at least partially, anyway. You specified the win98.comm.modem newsgroup as one of the newsgroups to post to. I would recommend hieing yourself over to an XP group to see if they have more topical advice. SignatureRichard G. Harper [MVP Shell/User] rgharper@gmail.com * PLEASE post all messages and replies in the newsgroups * for the benefit of all. Private mail is usually not replied to. * My website, such as it is ... http://rgharper.mvps.org/ * HELP us help YOU ... http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm > Where did you get that Windows 98 stuff from???? > I am talking about Window XP SP2. > Maybe I posted it in the wrong forum? > I have already asked that question before. > :-) Penny I was not able to locate neither WindowsXP modem forum, nor Windows 2000 nor Windows NT Can you recommend one, please? :-) Penny > Yes, you are in the wrong forum - at least partially, anyway. You > specified the win98.comm.modem newsgroup as one of the newsgroups to post [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> I have already asked that question before. >> :-) Penny >No. >You do not understand. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >Anyone else? >Penny I recently had a problem where two instances of the same modem were visible in the Modems applet but not in Device Manager. I had been experimenting with an internal controller based modem which could be configured for PnP or non-PnP. The duplicate entry was located in the registry. I had been toying with the idea of editing the registry until I realised I could achieve the same end via the Modems applet. By deleting the modem in this way, all the other record and playback devices (eg voice modem wave #0n line and handset) were also deleted. I suppose I could have used the Multimedia applet of Control Panel to remove the duplicates, ie Devices -> Audio Devices, select the wave device, then select Properties -> Remove. FWIW, this may be the relevant registry key: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Enum\MODEMWAVE Just for the sake of experiment, I've installed a second instance of my modem. The Modems applet now shows a "Rockwell 56K ... Voice Modem" and a "Rockwell 56K ... Voice Modem #2". The Multimedia applet shows two identical entries named "Audio for Wave Device for Voice Modem". The abovementioned registry key now has a second entry. In this particular case, if I delete the second instance from DM, it also disappears from all the other places. However, if I rejumper my modem for PnP mode (it is now in non-PnP mode), then it will be seen by DM as a different device and will be installed as such. After doing this, if I then restore the original non-PnP jumpering, the second instance can be deleted from DM but the record and playback devices will remain until I remove the modem using the Modems applet. - Franc Zabkar SignaturePlease remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email. Franc, thank you very much for trying to help me. In my case I do not have any duplicate entries. After removing modem the slate is clean. There is nothing left in Device Manager (modem and Unimodem are removed) and nothing in Control Panel (Line Playback and Recording are gone). But each, next consecutive modem installation will add 1 to the last Line # and I simply do not like it. I would like to have Line #0 after new installation. I have a feeling that Microsoft here is at fault, and MVPs, brave knights are left in dark. Penny >>No. >>You do not understand. [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > - Franc Zabkar It's not Microsoft's fault at all. The fault lies with the modem vendor. SignatureGary S. Terhune MS MVP Shell/User . > I have a feeling that Microsoft here is at fault, and MVPs, brave knights > are left in dark. > Penny > It's not Microsoft's fault at all. The fault lies with the modem vendor. No, it doesn't. Please see my other post. Best regards, Matthias Moetje ------------------------------------- TERASENS GmbH Augustenstraße 24 80333 Munich, GERMANY ------------------------------------- Fon: +49 89 143370-0 Fax: +49 89 143370-22 e-mail: moetje at terasens dot com www: www.terasens.com ------------------------------------- I didn't mean to suggest that there was anything *wrong* with the way the modem support software was written, but it is certainly an issue that originates in the modem's drivers, not within Windows per se. SignatureGary S. Terhune MS MVP Shell/User > > It's not Microsoft's fault at all. The fault lies with the modem vendor. > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > www: www.terasens.com > ------------------------------------- Gary, > I didn't mean to suggest that there was anything *wrong* with the way the > modem support software was written, but it is certainly an issue that > originates in the modem's drivers, not within Windows per se. Sorry, but this is incorrect. The naming of the wave devices is done by Unimodem which is part of Windows. The modem driver (which in the easiest case is just an inf.-file) has no influence on the naming of Unimodem wave devices. Best regards, Matthias Moetje ------------------------------------- TERASENS GmbH Augustenstraße 24 80333 Munich, GERMANY ------------------------------------- Fon: +49 89 143370-0 Fax: +49 89 143370-22 e-mail: moetje at terasens dot com www: www.terasens.com ------------------------------------- > > > It's not Microsoft's fault at all. The fault lies with the modem vendor. > > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > www: www.terasens.com > > ------------------------------------- OK, now I see your point. SignatureGary S. Terhune MS MVP Shell/User > Gary, > [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > > > www: www.terasens.com > > > ------------------------------------- Penny, first I'd like to stress that I dislike the tone and the words you are using. Apart from that I don't think that someone is to blame for the kind of implementation MS had decided for. In fact they use a constantly increasing counter for the numbering of the wave devices. The reason is probably quite simple: This method just minimizes problems. When programming, the easiest solution is in most cases the simplest one. Imagine the following: A plug and play device (modem) can be connected and disconnected an arbitrary number of times, but each time you connect it, you want the device to be the exact same device like before (not just a new installation of the same device type). For PnP devices the instances are hidden in device manager when they are disconnected (you can view these in device manager by setting DEVMGR_SHOW_NONPRESENT_DEVICES=1). When they are reconnected they need to have the same parameters like before and this is also true for the wave device. Therefore Unimodem just cannot start numbering wave devices from 1 because it might be the case that this belongs to a currently nonpresent device. Of course it would have been possible to make Unimodem check all these things and take care of it, but for what benefit? To make 10 people in the world happy that feel bothered by the way numbering is done? Surely not. I really think you should stop ranting here and take care of things that are more important than that numbering method. PS: To reset the wave numbering: HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\ \CurrentVersion\Unimodem\NextWaveDriverInstance Best regards, Matthias Moetje ------------------------------------- TERASENS GmbH Augustenstraße 24 80333 Munich, GERMANY ------------------------------------- Fon: +49 89 143370-0 Fax: +49 89 143370-22 e-mail: moetje at terasens dot com www: www.terasens.com ------------------------------------- > Hello, > I have noticed, that each time I reinstall my modem (uninstall [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Please help, > Penny Matthias, you are the man! Thank you very much for the beautiful explanation. :-) I was already loosing my faith in MVPs, until I read your response. You have made me to rethink that again. Thank you, :-) Penny > Penny, > [quoted text clipped - 66 lines] >> Please help, >> Penny Penny, thanks for your feedback. Hope we can be nice to each other from now on. Best regards, Matthias Moetje ------------------------------------- TERASENS GmbH Augustenstraße 24 80333 Munich, GERMANY ------------------------------------- Fon: +49 89 143370-0 Fax: +49 89 143370-22 e-mail: moetje at terasens dot com www: www.terasens.com ------------------------------------- > Matthias, you are the man! > Thank you very much for the beautiful explanation. :-) [quoted text clipped - 73 lines] > >> Please help, > >> Penny >Matthias, you are the man! >Thank you very much for the beautiful explanation. :-) >I was already loosing my faith in MVPs, until I read your response. You have >made me to rethink that again. >Thank you, >:-) Penny >> PS: To reset the wave numbering: >> HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\ >> \CurrentVersion\Unimodem\NextWaveDriverInstance >>> Hello, >>> I have noticed, that each time I reinstall my modem [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >>> Please help, >>> Penny If you had followed my suggestion regarding comparing the registry before and after a modem installation, then you would have discovered this registry key for yourself. Of course you may have needed a different File Compare command for Win XP, but the principle would have been the same. - Franc Zabkar SignaturePlease remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email. |
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