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Windows Forum / Windows 98 / Setup / December 2003

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Installing 98 Alongside 95

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Jason Teagle - 30 Dec 2003 19:31 GMT
I have a single PC that I want to use purely for testing programs my company
/ I write. The PC has two physical hard drives, each partitioned into two
drives - I thus have drives C:, D:, E: and F:.

I have got Win95 to install on C:, and wanted to now install Win98 on D:.
But when I try to install from the 98 CD, it complains about an OS already
existing and if I continue, it complains about not being able to upgrade, I
need an upgrade CD.

That's fine, except that I don't WANT to upgrade - I want to install Win98
to another partition. But I don't seem to have any way of getting setup to
realise that.

What I'm trying to achieve ultimately is to get the machine with 95, 98, 2K
and XP all on different partitions, so I can switch to whichever OS I want
to test on. But despite having all the OS installation CDs I just seem
unable to get it going.

Can anyone suggest how I might get Win98 to let me install to a different
partition?

Signature

--
Jason Teagle
jason@teagster.co.uk

Oliver Walter - 31 Dec 2003 00:07 GMT
I think W95 and W98 each need to be in a different partition, which
each thinks is drive C. I have done this with the help of Partition
Magic (and Boot Magic, which is part of the package). My (1st of 2)
hard drive has 2 primary partitions: one contains W95 and the other
contains W98. When I boot the PC, Boot Magic enables me to select
which to boot from, and it hides the other one. All my data is on a
further (logical) partition, which can be seen and used by W95 or
W98.
At the time each of these OSs is installed, it thinks it is the only
game in town, as the other partition is hidden at that time.

HTH a little
Oliver
oliver (the AT sign) owalter (dot) co.uk

> I have a single PC that I want to use purely for testing programs my company
> / I write. The PC has two physical hard drives, each partitioned into two
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> Can anyone suggest how I might get Win98 to let me install to a different
> partition?
Li'l Roberto - 31 Dec 2003 07:15 GMT
> I have a single PC that I want to use purely for testing programs my company
> / I write. The PC has two physical hard drives, each partitioned into two
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
> Jason Teagle
> jason@teagster.co.uk

You  need a third party  boot manager, I like  Partition Magic /Boot Magic,
others  prefer bootitng.

rgds
Li'l Roberto
cquirke (MVP Win9x) - 31 Dec 2003 17:36 GMT
On Wed, 31 Dec 2003 17:45:02 +1030, "Li'l Roberto"
>"Jason Teagle" <jason@teagster.co.uk> wrote in message

>> I have a single PC that I want to use purely for testing programs
>>The PC has two physical hard drives, each partitioned into two
>> drives - I thus have drives C:, D:, E: and F:.

>> What I'm trying to achieve ultimately is to get the machine with 95, 98,
>> 2K and XP all on different partitions, so I can switch to whichever OS

>You  need a third party  boot manager, I like  Partition Magic /Boot Magic,
>others  prefer bootitng.

There are several possible approaches here, but you have to work
within the file system support levels of the OSs:

FAT12/16   FAT32   NTFS*    OS

   Yes         No         Old          NT 3.xx
   Yes         No         Newish    NT 4.0
   Yes         Yes        Newer     NT 5.0 (Win2000)
   Yes         Yes        Newest   NT 5.1 (XP)
   Yes         No         No           DOS**, Win3.x, Win95, Win95SP1
   Yes         Yes        No           Win95SR2.xx
   Yes         Yes        No           Win98, Win98SE, WinME

*  NTFS is an undocumented, proprietary file system that can change as
NT versions change, and even within Service Packs of the same version
of NTFS.  Furthermore, NT can take a predatory approach to any "old"
versions of NTFS it sees, automatically upgrading them to the
"correct" version (and too bad if it's a dropped-in HD from an older
NT version that can no longer read its own drive).

That means you have to manage multiple NT-on-NTFS installations very,
very carefully; think partition managers that hide (via partition type
spoofing) partitions and volumes, and be very careful about what is
currently visible when booting NT CDs or diskettes.

**  Really old MS-DOS versions (4.x, 3.xx, older) have limitations on
what they can see, even within FAT16.  Prolly not relevant to you.

Subject to the perils of NTFS, you may be able to share multiple
versions of NTFS on the same system, if not the same volume.  You can
generally share a DOS with an NT on the same volume, and an older
MSDOS version with a Win9x (except for Win95SR2.xx, which is buggy in
this regard and cannot return from "Previous MSDOS" session).

FDisk can't create multiple primary partitions on the same HD, though
once they are there, it can manage them and Win9x and later can cope
with them (NTFS auto-convert hazards apply).  So if going that route,
you'd need a partition manager, and BING would be my recommendation.
You'd need a tool like that to spoof partition types in order to hide
at-risk NTFS volumes from predatory newer NT versions.

Modern BIOSs can boot HDs other than the first, so you can use that to
select between your two physical HDs.  But don't rely on CMOS settings
to hide HDs; Plug and Play may find them anyway, and that could open
the door to inappropriate System Restore "management" and NTFS
auto-upgrade attack.

Both XP and WinME come with System Restore (SR), and both may
spontaneously re-enable SR if their view of the HDs and volumes should
change an any way at all.  When this happens, existing Restore Points
and associated data are generally flushed.  Unless you are rigorous in
hiding all other OSs and volumes from SR-inflicted OSs, I'd recommend
disabling SR, and I wish you luck in keeping SR dead.

Fortunately, SR has no "magic name" overlap between WinME and XP.
WinME creates \_Restore directories on all volumes it sees, and
populates the one on C: with SR data from all volumes.  See
http://users.iafrica.com/c/cq/cquirke/sr-sfp.htm on WinME's SR and
SFP.  XP's SR creates (from memory) "\System Volume information"
subtrees on all volumes it sees, and populates these with data from
the same volume only (far more efficient than WinME).

SR and NTFS considerations aside, the issue of "magic name" overlap
will determine whether two OSs can reside on the same volume.  All
Win9x and NT share the same "\Program Files" name, so that makes
sharing of a volume between any of these a real problem.  

The DOS modes of Win9x (and MS-DOS) are more forgiving, sharing only a
few files in C:\ that you could manage on a copy-from-template basis
to switch between these OSs, or these plus one full Win9x OS.

NT can co-exist with an MSDOS or a Win9x DOS mode without any drama,
other than perhaps swapping \Config.sys and \Autoexec.bat or
preventing the NT from interpreting these files.  If the DOS (mode) is
in place when the NT is installed, the NT installation process should
create an NTLDR-mediated support to choose between these at boot time,
with pointers to both OSs in \Boot.ini

If using new hardware, you might consider a pile of new Serial-ATA HDs
that can be hot-swapped to boot the particular OSs on them.
Serial-ATA's support for hot swapping requires the use of the new
(rather than legacy) power connectors to these HDs.  

If using legacy power connectors, or "normal" xIDE hard drives, you
must physically disconnect mains power before swapping HDs, because
the ATX power "off" does not in fact disconnect the power.  

Note that modern xIDE HDs don't like removable drive brackets, as the
extra data path mechanical contacts degrades the interface below
reliability levels required to sustain UIDE66 or higher modes.

>--------------- ----- ---- --- -- -  -    -
Never turn your back on an installer program
>--------------- ----- ---- --- -- -  -    -
Ron Badour - 31 Dec 2003 21:47 GMT
This is fairly simple.  You have an OEM CD which is designed to be
installed to a drive that has no operating system.  When it sees your
load of W95, it balks at installing W98.

Get the partitioning program and boot manager below.  I would create a
second primary partition on hard drive 0 and install W98 to it.  Then
use the boot manager to hide the partition with W95 on it and install
W98 to the new primary partition.  Then you use the boot manager to pick
which system will boot when you start the computer.

BootIt Next Generation is available from:
http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/  and it does partitioning, makes a
compressed image, does many other partitioning chores and is a boot
manager.  It is not quite as easy to use as Partition Magic but it is
half the cost and has more features.  Unlike the crippled PMagic demo,
BING is a *full function* demo you can try for free for 30 days.  The
web site has a lot of support articles.

Signature

Regards

Ron Badour, MS MVP W98 System
Tips:  http://home.satx.rr.com/badour
Knowledge Base Info:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?pr=kbinfo

> I have a single PC that I want to use purely for testing programs my company
> / I write. The PC has two physical hard drives, each partitioned into two
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> Can anyone suggest how I might get Win98 to let me install to a different
> partition?
 
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