Windows Forum / Windows 98 / Setup / October 2005
Setting up sound drivers in DOS mode
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SlickRCBD - 23 Oct 2005 04:04 GMT I recently aquired a used Windows 98SE computer that somebody I knew wanted to get rid of. I also managed to bum off some old games that I couldn't afford to buy back when I was in high school. These games require DOS mode to play. Unfortunetly, I can't figure out how to set up DOS for the sound drivers.
The drivers can be downloaded from here: http://support.dell.com/support/downloads/download.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=gen&releasei d=R14174&SystemID=PLX_PNT_P03_GX110&os=W98&osl=en&deviceid=170&devlib=0&typecnt= 1&vercnt=2&formatcnt=2&fileid=11984
Could somebody please tell me what exactly I'm suppost to put in config.sys or autoexec.bat or dosstart.bat or whatever to make the sound drivers available when I "reboot in MS-DOS mode" so that I can try the games with sound?
I'm afraid that in the MS-DOS era, I was using an Apple II, and in the win98 era I was using a Macintosh. I never really had to deal with the joys of DOS drivers. Please forgive my ignorance. I had enough trouble figuring how to get the CD-ROM to work in MS-DOS mode without screwing up Windows (I didn't know about dosstart.bat and used autoexec).
Jeff Richards - 23 Oct 2005 05:46 GMT The description indicates it's a Windows driver, not a DOS driver. When you run the EXE that you downloaded, what happens?
 Signature Jeff Richards MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
>I recently aquired a used Windows 98SE computer that somebody I knew wanted >to get rid of. I also managed to bum off some old games that I couldn't [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > figuring how to get the CD-ROM to work in MS-DOS mode without screwing up > Windows (I didn't know about dosstart.bat and used autoexec). SlickRCBD - 23 Oct 2005 09:07 GMT > The description indicates it's a Windows driver, not a DOS driver. When you > run the EXE that you downloaded, what happens? An installer pops up that doesn't give me much in the way of options. Merly asks for a folder to unpack to. It unpacks the archive to a default of c:\DELL\Drivers\1405U that then launches an HTM file with a button marked install, which then installs using a standard installer that just gives me a shrink-wrap license and installs without any questions. I think it's called a wise installer or an install-shield thingie, but I forgot.
What I need to know if it's a Windows driver is how and where do I get the DOS drivers? I assume that's what I need to "Restart in MS-DOS mode" and have sound. I'm sorry, I'm kinda a newbie at these kind of problems, so I don't know what I need to look up. I just want to get the sound "card" working in MS-DOS mode with some old games.
Jeff Richards - 23 Oct 2005 10:26 GMT If your sound is working properly in Windows then I would ignore what you have found on the Dell site. Have a look at the instructions and links here http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=192232 Sound Problems with MS-DOS-Based Games in Windows 98
 Signature Jeff Richards MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
>> The description indicates it's a Windows driver, not a DOS driver. When >> you run the EXE that you downloaded, what happens? [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > don't know what I need to look up. I just want to get the sound "card" > working in MS-DOS mode with some old games. SlickRCBD - 23 Oct 2005 12:39 GMT That was most unhelpful. The article mentions a blaster= line in config.sys, but the provided link makes no mention of such a thing and searching didn't help. I just got info on using a sound blaster card. I have no clue how that should help me.
Perhaps I should rephrase my request. Could somebody explain with step-by-step instructions what to do to get the sound to work in MS-DOS mode? I'm ignorant of WINDOWS, but not with computers. I'm pretty good with Macs and passible with linux/unix.
> If your sound is working properly in Windows then I would ignore what you > have found on the Dell site. Have a look at the instructions and links here [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >>>> The description indicates it's a Windows driver, not a DOS driver. When
>>>> you run the EXE that you downloaded, what happens? > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >> don't know what I need to look up. I just want to get the sound "card" >> working in MS-DOS mode with some old games. Franc Zabkar - 24 Oct 2005 07:05 GMT >Perhaps I should rephrase my request. Could somebody explain with >step-by-step instructions what to do to get the sound to work in MS-DOS >mode? The SoundMAX FAQ doesn't mention anything about getting sound to work in a Windows DOS box, or restarting in DOS mode, but it does say that there are no DOS drivers.
================================================================== http://forms.analog.com/Form_Pages/soundMAX/soundMAXSupportFAQ.html#question37
37 Where can I find DOS drivers for SoundMAX?
SoundMAX does not support DOS operation. Audio may or may not work with different DOS applications. ==================================================================
AFAIK, the problem with getting games to run in MS-DOS mode is that the sound card's resources need to be visible in MS-DOS mode. MS-DOS games usually understand Creative Sound Blaster compatible cards, ie those that occupy the same IO ports and use the same registers as the original standard sound card. I suspect that some games can sniff out the card's resources on their own, while others must consult the BLASTER environment variable for the card's IRQ, DMA, and IO port settings. Newer cards that are unable to emulate the Sound Blaster or other old cards (eg Adlib?) may not be recognised by DOS games.
By way of example, my Win95 box runs an old sound card with an Opti 89C928 chipset. The Opti card came with DOS and Win3.1x drivers, but not Win9x. To get the card to work with Win95 I've had to configure its registers for Sound Blaster mode. I do this using an Opti-supplied configurator utility that runs from autoexec.bat just before the GUI loads. The only feature that I can't get to work is the mixer (and therefore the microphone), but I suspect this is because Opti's mixer may not follow the Creative standard.
What devices do you see in Control Panel in the "Sound, video, and game controllers section"? What resources are assigned to them? Do you see an "SB16 Audio device"? "DOS mode MPU-401 emulator"?
-- Franc Zabkar
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
SlickRCBD - 28 Oct 2005 22:11 GMT >>Perhaps I should rephrase my request. Could somebody explain with >>step-by-step instructions what to do to get the sound to work in MS-DOS [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email. Sorry I took so long, I wasn't able to get back to this issue because of more pressing problems in the real world.
I only see one device: "SoundMAX Integrated Digital Audio" The contents of each panel is as follows General: Device type: Sound, video, and game controllers Manufacturer: Analog Devices, Inc. Hardware version: 002 Device status: This device is working properly Device usage: [ ] Disable in this hardware profile [X] Exists in all hardware profiles Driver: Provider: Analog Devices Date: 10-1-1999 To view detail... (not bothering because it seems illrelivant) Driver File details: Driver files: C:\WINDOWS\OPTIONS\CABS\DRIVERS\smwdm.sys C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\VMM32VXD (ntkern.vxd) C:\SYSTEM\MMDEVLDR.VXD C:\SYSTEM32\DRIVERS\SMWDM.SYS Provider: Analog Devices, Inc. File version: 5.12.01.3620 Copyright: Copyright (C) Analog Devices, Inc. 1998-2003 Resources: [X] Use automatic settings Resource Type Setting Interupt request 10 Input/Output Range D800-D8FF Input/Output Range DC80-DCBF Conflicting device list: No conflicts.
SlickRCBD - 28 Oct 2005 22:12 GMT >>Perhaps I should rephrase my request. Could somebody explain with >>step-by-step instructions what to do to get the sound to work in MS-DOS [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email. Sorry I took so long, I wasn't able to get back to this issue because of more pressing problems in the real world.
I only see one device: "SoundMAX Integrated Digital Audio" The contents of each panel is as follows General: Device type: Sound, video, and game controllers Manufacturer: Analog Devices, Inc. Hardware version: 002 Device status: This device is working properly Device usage: [ ] Disable in this hardware profile [X] Exists in all hardware profiles Driver: Provider: Analog Devices Date: 10-1-1999 To view detail... (not bothering because it seems illrelivant) Driver File details: Driver files: C:\WINDOWS\OPTIONS\CABS\DRIVERS\smwdm.sys C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\VMM32VXD (ntkern.vxd) C:\SYSTEM\MMDEVLDR.VXD C:\SYSTEM32\DRIVERS\SMWDM.SYS Provider: Analog Devices, Inc. File version: 5.12.01.3620 Copyright: Copyright (C) Analog Devices, Inc. 1998-2003 Resources: [X] Use automatic settings Resource Type Setting Interupt request 10 Input/Output Range D800-D8FF Input/Output Range DC80-DCBF Conflicting device list: No conflicts.
SlickRCBD - 28 Oct 2005 22:14 GMT >>Perhaps I should rephrase my request. Could somebody explain with >>step-by-step instructions what to do to get the sound to work in MS-DOS [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email. Sorry I took so long, I wasn't able to get back to this issue because of more pressing problems in the real world.
I only see one device: "SoundMAX Integrated Digital Audio" The contents of each panel is as follows General: Device type: Sound, video, and game controllers Manufacturer: Analog Devices, Inc. Hardware version: 002 Device status: This device is working properly Device usage: [ ] Disable in this hardware profile [X] Exists in all hardware profiles Driver: Provider: Analog Devices Date: 10-1-1999 To view detail... (not bothering because it seems illrelivant) Driver File details: Driver files: C:\WINDOWS\OPTIONS\CABS\DRIVERS\smwdm.sys C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\VMM32VXD (ntkern.vxd) C:\SYSTEM\MMDEVLDR.VXD C:\SYSTEM32\DRIVERS\SMWDM.SYS Provider: Analog Devices, Inc. File version: 5.12.01.3620 Copyright: Copyright (C) Analog Devices, Inc. 1998-2003 Resources: [X] Use automatic settings Resource Type Setting Interupt request 10 Input/Output Range D800-D8FF Input/Output Range DC80-DCBF Conflicting device list: No conflicts.
SlickRCBD - 28 Oct 2005 22:15 GMT >>Perhaps I should rephrase my request. Could somebody explain with >>step-by-step instructions what to do to get the sound to work in MS-DOS [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] > > Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email. Sorry I took so long, I wasn't able to get back to this issue because of more pressing problems in the real world.
I only see one device: "SoundMAX Integrated Digital Audio" The contents of each panel is as follows General: Device type: Sound, video, and game controllers Manufacturer: Analog Devices, Inc. Hardware version: 002 Device status: This device is working properly Device usage: [ ] Disable in this hardware profile [X] Exists in all hardware profiles Driver: Provider: Analog Devices Date: 10-1-1999 To view detail... (not bothering because it seems illrelivant) Driver File details: Driver files: C:\WINDOWS\OPTIONS\CABS\DRIVERS\smwdm.sys C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\VMM32VXD (ntkern.vxd) C:\SYSTEM\MMDEVLDR.VXD C:\SYSTEM32\DRIVERS\SMWDM.SYS Provider: Analog Devices, Inc. File version: 5.12.01.3620 Copyright: Copyright (C) Analog Devices, Inc. 1998-2003 Resources: [X] Use automatic settings Resource Type Setting Interupt request 10 Input/Output Range D800-D8FF Input/Output Range DC80-DCBF Conflicting device list: No conflicts.
Franc Zabkar - 30 Oct 2005 00:52 GMT >>>Perhaps I should rephrase my request. Could somebody explain with >>>step-by-step instructions what to do to get the sound to work in MS-DOS [quoted text clipped - 74 lines] > Conflicting device list: > No conflicts. I'm no expert, but it seems to me that your drivers provide you with no DOS support. There are no Sound Blaster devices, for example. The "WDM" in "SMWDM" refers to the Windows Driver Model which is a departure from the old VXD driver standard. WDM is intended to facilitate a way for software developers to code drivers that can be used across the full range of Windows platforms beginning with Win98SE. I don't know whether this means that DOS support is excluded by design.
-- Franc Zabkar
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
Jeff Richards - 24 Oct 2005 10:07 GMT The article shows what needs to be done for a specific sound card. Your card may require the same thing, or something similar. Without knowing the exact make and model of card (or equivalent motherboard device) there is no way of telling.. However, the article also included a general reference to running games in DOS mode. Did you follow the reference and check out the general tips for getting games to work in DOS mode?
There is no step-by-step procedure for getting sound to work in DOS mode because it should work without following a step-by-step procedure. If that doesn't happen in your case then you have to troubleshoot the problem. Troubleshooting starts by making sure you understand the issues, and by seeing what other people have done to fix similar problems. There is no simple answer, but there is a lot of information available if you look for it.
 Signature Jeff Richards MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
> That was most unhelpful. The article mentions a blaster= line in > config.sys, but the provided link makes no mention of such a thing and [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > mode? I'm ignorant of WINDOWS, but not with computers. I'm pretty good > with Macs and passible with linux/unix. SlickRCBD - 31 Oct 2005 03:22 GMT > The article shows what needs to be done for a specific sound card. Your > card may require the same thing, or something similar. Without knowing the > exact make and model of card (or equivalent motherboard device) there is no > way of telling.. However, the article also included a general reference to > running games in DOS mode. Did you follow the reference and check out the > general tips for getting games to work in DOS mode? Actually, I previously provided such information in my other posts, and it should have been quoted.
Don Phillipson - 23 Oct 2005 22:00 GMT > I recently aquired a used Windows 98SE computer that somebody I knew > wanted to get rid of. I also managed to bum off some old games that I [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > The drivers can be downloaded from here: http://support.dell.com/support/downloads/download.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=gen&releasei d=R14174&SystemID=PLX_PNT_P03_GX110&os=W98&osl=en&deviceid=170&devlib=0&typecnt= 1&vercnt=2&formatcnt=2&fileid=11984
> Could somebody please tell me what exactly I'm suppost to put in > config.sys or autoexec.bat or dosstart.bat or whatever to make the sound > drivers available when I "reboot in MS-DOS mode" so that I can try the > games with sound? Standard implementations of Win98 do not need AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS. Rename these and boot without them unless you want to do something non-standard.
Tweaks to run DOS programs under Win98 are discussed in PROGRAMS.TXT and possibly other MS documentation. E.g. you can manipulate memory or load special drivers via / Properties for each DOS EXE (without rebooting.) In general, common functions like audio are better handled via Win98 rather than DOS drivers.
[ NGs alt.win98,alt.comp.os.windows-98se removed from your multipost.]
 Signature Don Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada)
Ben Myers - 24 Oct 2005 00:23 GMT If the computer has a sound card, please repost with the manufacturer and model number.
Ben
> I recently aquired a used Windows 98SE computer that somebody I knew > wanted to get rid of. I also managed to bum off some old games that I [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > figuring how to get the CD-ROM to work in MS-DOS mode without screwing > up Windows (I didn't know about dosstart.bat and used autoexec). SlickRCBD - 24 Oct 2005 03:46 GMT > If the computer has a sound card, please repost with the manufacturer and > model number. > > Ben
>>http://support.dell.com/support/downloads/download.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=gen&releasei d=R14174&SystemID=PLX_PNT_P03_GX110&os=W98&osl=en&deviceid=170&devlib=0&typecnt= 1&vercnt=2&formatcnt=2&fileid=11984 The computer I aquired used from a friend of my mother's who upgraded was going to get rid of it because they hadn't used it in several years. This person is not very computer literate and had tossed all the manuals. All the information I have is what Windows configuration tells me and that is pretty much mirrored on the link I provided. Not all the cards in the thing are well labeled either.
Don Phillipson wrote:
> Standard implementations of Win98 do not need AUTOEXEC.BAT > and CONFIG.SYS. Rename these and boot without them unless [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > [ NGs alt.win98,alt.comp.os.windows-98se removed from your multipost.] One of the games in question explicidly says that you MUST run it in MS-DOS mode, and Microsoft's website also confirms that. I've tried it and it crashes the computer under windows, though there is sound. When I run it after I "Restart in MS-DOS mode" it runs fine except there is no sound and the game reports that it can't find the card/drivers.
What I need to know is how to take the information/files availble at that link and use it to get sound working in DOS mode.
Ben Myers - 24 Oct 2005 04:02 GMT See if the card has an FCC ID number.
http://www.driverzone.com/fcc_id_search.htm
Ben
> > If the computer has a sound card, please repost with the manufacturer and > > model number. [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > What I need to know is how to take the information/files availble at > that link and use it to get sound working in DOS mode. Don Phillipson - 24 Oct 2005 14:06 GMT > Don Phillipson wrote: > > In general, common functions [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > run it after I "Restart in MS-DOS mode" it runs fine except there is no > sound and the game reports that it can't find the card/drivers. Agreed, running this particular game on a Windows PC requires rebooting to DOS with appropriate DOS (not Windows) drivers for audio components (and possibly others e.g. video.) The simplest way to do this is to put all DOS drivers onto a floppy (if space permits) that boots DOS and (in AUTOEXEC.BAT and CONFIG.SYS) calls the appropriate DOS drivers.
 Signature Don Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada)
mdp - 25 Oct 2005 03:11 GMT Below are two applications that may be able to tell you what kind of soundcard you have without physically examining the HW.
HWInfo: You can download a DOS or Windows version:
http://www.hwinfo.com/
Everest: This runs under Windows:
http://www.lavalys.com/products/download.php?pid=1&lang=en
>> If the computer has a sound card, please repost with the manufacturer and >> model number. [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > What I need to know is how to take the information/files availble at that > link and use it to get sound working in DOS mode. cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user) - 24 Oct 2005 11:24 GMT On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 22:04:07 -0500, SlickRCBD <slickrcbd@hotmail.com>
>I recently aquired a used Windows 98SE computer that somebody I knew >wanted to get rid of. I also managed to bum off some old games that I >couldn't afford to buy back when I was in high school. These games >require DOS mode to play. Unfortunetly, I can't figure out how to set up >DOS for the sound drivers. Ah - this is where one realizes how much better things now are... :-(
>The drivers can be downloaded from here:
>http://support.dell.com/support/downloads/download.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=gen&releasei d=R14174&SystemID=PLX_PNT_P03_GX110&os=W98&osl=en&deviceid=170&devlib=0&typecnt= 1&vercnt=2&formatcnt=2&fileid=11984 Release Title: Audio: Analog Devices AD1881 Integrated Audio, Driver, Windows 98, English, OptiPlex GX110, GX200, v. 5.00.2231, A02 Release Date: 05/01/2000 Description: Analog Devices SoundMAX Integrated Digital Audio (AC97 AD1881) Driver, Version 5.00.2231, A02
OK, that skips a number of questions!
>Could somebody please tell me what exactly I'm suppost to put in >config.sys or autoexec.bat or dosstart.bat or whatever to make the sound >drivers available when I "reboot in MS-DOS mode" so that I can try the >games with sound? Sure, I'll get to that in a moment.
>I'm afraid that in the MS-DOS era, I was using an Apple II, and in the >win98 era I was using a Macintosh. I never really had to deal with the >joys of DOS drivers. Please forgive my ignorance. OK - the downside is, there's a lot to learn; the upside is, you have a wide range of "unrelated" experience that makes learning easier!
"DOS sound drivers" is a trick question - in the DOS era, most games interacted directly with the sound hardware, without DOS or drivers playing any role at all. Your hardware was either compatible, or it wasn't - and that's what gave rise to Creative Sound Blaster's dominance as a de facto standard, to be copied as closely as litigation and patents would allow.
There are two basic sound functionalities that a DOS-capable sound card (or integrated sound) should support in hardware. The first is FM music synthesis, with the old "Ad Lib" card as standard, and the second is digitized sound, to Sound Blaster, Sound Blaster Pro (and Pro 2) and (rarely) Sound Blaster 16 levels of compatibility.
An old PC would or should have this capability. You'd go to DOS mode, and it would work, period. If in Windows, you'd have to use Windows drivers to get support there.
However, your PC is newer than that, from an age when Windows and DirectX were becoming more important than DOS compatibility, and when central processing power made it possible to use minimal sound hardware with software drivers doing all the work. That's what the "AC97" item tells me; that this is more modern "soft" sound hardware built to the AC97 spec to work in Windows, with DOS needs typically being catered for via Windows drivers emulating the old hardware.
So you may need "DOS drivers" after all. You may get sound support for DOS games only while in Windows, or you may need to add DOS drivers or TSRs (resident programs) to emulate the hardware in DOS mode (where there are no Windows drivers in effect).
There is a LOT of detail on this stuff; I'll type what I can manage for now, but be advised there may be more info you need as you go along, so feel free to post back for that.
There are three ways to run DOS apps and games:
1) In Windows 9x GUI, as a "console session"
When you do this, the DOS game gets Windows driver support that provides a LOT of stuff... - XMS, EMS, DPMS memory management, including paging to HD - network, file share locking, disk caching, CD-ROM support - VESA SVGA, sound, mouse driver support ...so often the best way to run DOS games, is to run them within Windows! Out of 50 or so DOS games, the only ones I had to run in DOS mode were: Indy 500, the Jill of the Jungle series, Lemmings, and... that's about all I can think of right now. It's not like Win3.yuk !
2) In "Use with current..." DOS mode
You've discovered "Restart in DOS Mode" from the Shutdown menu, and I'd use that as a single point of entry for any apps that need DOS mode, rather than set individual .pif to run each one directly. If there are conflicting memory management etc. needs, I'd use [Menu] in Config.sys via "Specify a new..." instead of "Use with current..."
"Restart in DOS Mode" uses "Exit to DOS.pif", which basically runs Command.com in DOS Mode. This is controlled via the Properties of the .pif, and this defaults to "Use with current configuration" once you select the option to "Run in DOS Mode".
In "Use with current...", the system exits Windows without booting, and runs DOSStart.bat on the way to running your program (or Command.com, in the case of "Exit to DOS.pif"). When the DOS session is done, Exit will restart Windows without a reboot, unless some resident DOS drivers or programs were loaded in the course of the DOS mode session; if so, then it reboots into Windows.
What the DOS app sees, is whatever was loaded under the Windows boot, plus whatever changes DOSStart.bat can add. Generally, you don't want to pollutre Windows with DOS drivers, so you'd typically have HiMem.sys providing XMS and DOS=High, no Emm386.exe providing EMS or DOS=UMB, no CD-ROM support, and no mouse. You'd add mouse via DOSStart.bat, but it's more difficult to add CD-ROM support, and impossible to alter the memory management.
3) In "Specify a new..." DOS mode
This is far more powerful than "Use with current...", because you can set up your own private Config.sys and Autoexec.bat that will be extracted from the .PIF and into effect, when the PC reboots to run the "Specify..." DOS mode session. DOSStart.bat is not processed in this mode, and Exit reboots the system back into Windows.
Unlike "Use with...", if you reboot while in the DOS mode session, the same DOS mode session runs again, and will continue to do so on every boot until you Exit the session. This I see as desirable behaviour, e.g. when troubleshooting sick PCs where you don't want Windows.
Because you have full cotrol over Config.sys (where memory management is done and DOS drivers are loaded) and Autoexec.bat (where you can automate things you'd normally do from the command line), you can get exactly the settings you want without affecting Windows. You can also use a Config.sys [Menu] to select alternate setups at boot time.
When it comes to sound support, some modern sound chipsets require Plug-n-Play initialization to work. This can be done by BIOS (PnP OS set to No) and is generally (re-)done by Windows. It stays in effect until the system is reset; sometimes it persists across soft restarts, other times not. What this means is that you may find you have "no sound" in DOS mode if you use "Specify a new...", if the soft reset clears the PnP state, or when powering directly up into DOS mode to restart a "Specify..." session or via F8 menu, if the hard reset clears PnP state that you need to use the sound.
If the above applies, then it may be worth trying "Use with current..." after all, as that may preserve the PnP state as the session doesn't restart the PC when it runs.
>--------------- ---- --- -- - - - - I'm baaaack!
>--------------- ---- --- -- - - - - Franc Zabkar - 25 Oct 2005 07:46 GMT >There are three ways to run DOS apps and games: <snip>
>2) In "Use with current..." DOS mode
>"Restart in DOS Mode" uses "Exit to DOS.pif", which basically runs >Command.com in DOS Mode. This is controlled via the Properties of the [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >and runs DOSStart.bat on the way to running your program (or >Command.com, in the case of "Exit to DOS.pif").
>What the DOS app sees, is whatever was loaded under the Windows boot, >plus whatever changes DOSStart.bat can add. Generally, you don't want [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >DOSStart.bat, but it's more difficult to add CD-ROM support, and >impossible to alter the memory management. Thanks for your very informative post. It filled in a lot of gaps for me. I wonder if you could now explain why my PNP ISA hardware modem behaves as it does. :-)
I have my BIOS set to "PnP aware OS = no". Despite this, my modem is not detected by DOS. Using Debug I am able to confirm that the modem's COM port is not present in DOS's port table. It is only after the GUI loads that its resources are assigned.
If I now "restart in MS-DOS mode", or switch to a Windows DOS box, the modem's COM port remains invisible. In MS-DOS mode there is nothing I can do to enable the port as Windows appears to have released all of its resources. However, in a DOS window I can make the port visible to DOS by using Debug to add it to the port table at addresses 40:0 - 40:f.
This behaviour appears to contradict your statement that "the DOS app sees ... whatever was loaded under the Windows boot".
-- Franc Zabkar
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user) - 26 Oct 2005 11:24 GMT On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:46:36 +1000, Franc Zabkar
>On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:24:39 +0200, "cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)"
>>There are three ways to run DOS apps and games:
>>2) In "Use with current..." DOS mode
>>In "Use with current...", the system exits Windows without booting, >>and runs DOSStart.bat on the way to running your program (or >>Command.com, in the case of "Exit to DOS.pif").
>>You'd add mouse via DOSStart.bat, but it's more difficult to add >>CD-ROM support, and impossible to alter the memory management.
>Thanks for your very informative post. It filled in a lot of gaps It's a pleasure!
Personally, I use (3) "Specify..." as it's far more powerful than (2).
>I wonder if you could now explain why my PNP ISA hardware modem >behaves as it does. :-)
>I have my BIOS set to "PnP aware OS = no". Despite this, my modem is >not detected by DOS. That depends on how well the modem can emulate the legacy hardware arrangement of a serial COM port with standard hardware resources that connects to the modem as a serial device.
If that is emulated within Windows device drivers, then the modem won't be visible when those are not in effect, unless alternate drivers are applied to the OS you are using.
Remember, DOS mode is a different OS rather than a "part of Windows", using IO.SYS as the kernel instead of Windows, but using the same file system in almost the same way (exception; no LFN support).
Folks who think that "Win9x runs on top of DOS" may miss this point completely, and remain ineffective in contexts where this matters.
>Using Debug I am able to confirm that the modem's COM port is >not present in DOS's port table. It is only after the GUI loads that >its resources are assigned. Yup. It's a "Windows modem", most likely.
>If I now "restart in MS-DOS mode", or switch to a Windows DOS box, the >modem's COM port remains invisible. In MS-DOS mode there is nothing I >can do to enable the port as Windows appears to have released all of >its resources. However, in a DOS window I can make the port visible to >DOS by using Debug to add it to the port table at addresses 40:0 - 40:f Oooo... debug in Windows; I haven't gone that deep or pokey!
>This behaviour appears to contradict your statement that "the DOS app >sees ... whatever was loaded under the Windows boot". Not really - as what drives the modem is not loaded under the Windows boot, but as part of the driver set loaded within Windows. I code my English as I used to code code, i.e. as carefully as I can :-)
>---------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - - On the 'net, *everyone* can hear you scream
>---------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - - Franc Zabkar - 26 Oct 2005 21:22 GMT >On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:46:36 +1000, Franc Zabkar >>On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 12:24:39 +0200, "cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)"
>>I have my BIOS set to "PnP aware OS = no". Despite this, my modem is >>not detected by DOS. > >That depends on how well the modem can emulate the legacy hardware >arrangement of a serial COM port with standard hardware resources that >connects to the modem as a serial device. It does this perfectly. It's a full hardware, controller based ISA modem. It can be configured in jumpered mode or in PnP mode. In jumpered mode I can choose the IRQ and the IO port. DOS then sees a standard COM port at 2f8, 3f8, 2e8, or 3e8.
The hardware blocks are as follows:
ISA bus <-> PnP chip <-> UART <-> controller <-> DSP <-> DAA
or
ISA bus <-> jumpers <-> UART <-> controller <-> DSP <-> DAA
>>Using Debug I am able to confirm that the modem's COM port is >>not present in DOS's port table. It is only after the GUI loads that >>its resources are assigned.
>Yup. It's a "Windows modem", most likely. Definitely not. It appears to me that the BIOS cannot configure the modem.
>>If I now "restart in MS-DOS mode", or switch to a Windows DOS box, the >>modem's COM port remains invisible. In MS-DOS mode there is nothing I [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >Not really - as what drives the modem is not loaded under the Windows >boot, but as part of the driver set loaded within Windows. There are no drivers, only those that are associated with a standard COM port. It seems to me that DOS (or IO.SYS) detects the ports at bootup and constructs a port table. Windows then finds an additional port and assigns resources to it. If I now switch to a DOS box, DOS refers to the old port table and remains unaware of the newest port. The port's resources have not been released, though. To make DOS aware of the new port, I need to tell it that it exists be using debug to manually update the table.
A "restart in MS-DOS mode" releases the modem's resources. Adding the COM port to the port table at this time does not make the modem visible to DOS.
Now do you see why I'm confused? :-)
Here is some background info on the subject: http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion/msg/8c49a35 b389a6e1f?dmode=source&hl=en http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.win98.gen_discussion/msg/ba19bbe 2edef6078?dmode=source&hl=en
BTW, my apology to the OP for appearing to have hijacked this thread, but I believe that a discussion of how resources are manipulated by DOS and Windows goes to the crux of the OP's question.
-- Franc Zabkar
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
SlickRCBD - 31 Oct 2005 03:24 GMT >>On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:46:36 +1000, Franc Zabkar >> [quoted text clipped - 69 lines] > > Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email. It's ok, I'm lost as it is, form what the other poster said, I need to find some way to emulate SB hardware in DOS mode, though I don't have a clue how to do that. I've got a lot of catching up to do.
SlickRCBD - 31 Oct 2005 03:26 GMT >>On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:46:36 +1000, Franc Zabkar >> [quoted text clipped - 69 lines] > > Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email. It's ok, I'm lost as it is, form what the other poster said, I need to find some way to emulate SB hardware in DOS mode, though I don't have a clue how to do that. I've got a lot of catching up to do on configuring dos/windows. To think that I thought I was proficient in MS-DOS because I know basic and quite a few moe advanced DOS commands.
SlickRCBD - 31 Oct 2005 03:26 GMT >>On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:46:36 +1000, Franc Zabkar >> [quoted text clipped - 69 lines] > > Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email. It's ok, I'm lost as it is, form what the other poster said, I need to find some way to emulate SB hardware in DOS mode, though I don't have a clue how to do that. I've got a lot of catching up to do on configuring dos/windows. To think that I thought I was proficient in MS-DOS because I know basic and quite a few moe advanced DOS commands.
SlickRCBD - 31 Oct 2005 03:27 GMT >>On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:46:36 +1000, Franc Zabkar >> [quoted text clipped - 69 lines] > > Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email. It's ok, I'm lost as it is, form what the other poster said, I need to find some way to emulate SB hardware in DOS mode, though I don't have a clue how to do that. I've got a lot of catching up to do on configuring dos/windows. To think that I thought I was proficient in MS-DOS because I know basic and quite a few moe advanced DOS commands.
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