Windows Forum / Windows 98 / Setup / May 2008
having trouble installing win98 on a laptop with no os
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xskarmah - 04 May 2008 01:06 GMT I got a laptop free and wanted to install 98 on it, a clean install for my nephew. I burned a bootcd, and managed to format and partition it, my trouble starts because I dont have another disk drive to put the iso I have in, I only have the one drive, the laptop does not have a Floppy drive.
Any suggestions? Whenever I try and use any setup commands I get invalid media trying to read disk
philo - 04 May 2008 01:30 GMT > I got a laptop free and wanted to install 98 on it, a clean install for my > nephew. I burned a bootcd, and managed to format and partition it, my trouble [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Any suggestions? Whenever I try and use any setup commands I get invalid > media trying to read disk Win98 cd's at least legit ones are generally bootable so you do not need a floppy
Gary S. Terhune - 04 May 2008 03:25 GMT >> I got a laptop free and wanted to install 98 on it, a clean install for >> my [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Win98 cd's at least legit ones are generally bootable > so you do not need a floppy WRONG!!! Where do you get that? Find me one and describe the label. Bet it didn't come from Microsoft. Bet it was built by some OEM, and probably specifically for laptops, at that. But not even Microsoft's generic "OEM" CD, the one sent out with whitebox builds and smaller OEMs, is bootable.
 Signature Gary S. Terhune MS-MVP Shell/User www.grystmill.com
philo - 04 May 2008 04:12 GMT > >> I got a laptop free and wanted to install 98 on it, a clean install for > >> my [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > specifically for laptops, at that. But not even Microsoft's generic "OEM" > CD, the one sent out with whitebox builds and smaller OEMs, is bootable. That's weird I just setup a machine a few days ago and the Win98 cd was bootable. As I post this I have just confirmed that my win98 cd is bootable. I have the license and everything. Though it does not say OEM on it... it must be one though.
Here is what is says:
Microsoft Windows 98 for PC's without Windows. I have a whole box of similar cd's that came from the many desktops I've scrapped out... none came from laptops and as far as I know, they are all bootable. At least when I do setup a win98 machine I've never yet pulled one out of the box that did not boot. The only exception was a win98 upgrade cd, that I assume was supposed to be installed from within an existing OS or with a boot floppy.
So if most win98 cd's are not bootable then I am wrong!!!! but all I can say is the ones I have come from Microsoft and do not have the name of any mfg on them but they do indeed say : for PC's without windows.
So what's the deal?
Gary S. Terhune - 04 May 2008 04:37 GMT Sounds like Microsoft's generic OEM CDs you got there. Would blow my socks off to find out they're bootable. I can't recall one instance of such a disc. I do recall such with WIN95 discs.
Oh well, unless someone else can clarify... I'll dig through a couple of places and see if I have one or two handy. But non-bootable is the standard AFAIK.
 Signature Gary S. Terhune MS-MVP Shell/User www.grystmill.com
>> >> I got a laptop free and wanted to install 98 on it, a clean install >> >> for [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] > > So what's the deal? philo - 04 May 2008 05:36 GMT > Sounds like Microsoft's generic OEM CDs you got there. Would blow my socks > off to find out they're bootable. I can't recall one instance of such a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > places and see if I have one or two handy. But non-bootable is the standard > AFAIK. You are probably right... because if something is in my house...it's more than likely totally non-standard <G>
Well I never saw a bootable win95 cd OTOH: ...I don't think I ever tried to boot with one.
Now I may have to tear my house apart to find a cd that does not say:
for PC's without windows... I could swear I had some but I doubt I'll find any now that I want to.
Good thing it's way past my bedtime and I'm falling asleep or I'd test all my win98 cd's to see if they boot !
Franc Zabkar - 04 May 2008 09:41 GMT >> I got a laptop free and wanted to install 98 on it, a clean install for my >> nephew. I burned a bootcd, and managed to format and partition it, my [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >Win98 cd's at least legit ones are generally bootable >so you do not need a floppy This URL suggests that Win98 CDs were not bootable: http://www.webtree.ca/newlife/posts/win98_editions.htm
- Franc Zabkar
 Signature Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
philo - 04 May 2008 15:17 GMT > >> I got a laptop free and wanted to install 98 on it, a clean install for my > >> nephew. I burned a bootcd, and managed to format and partition it, my [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > This URL suggests that Win98 CDs were not bootable: > http://www.webtree.ca/newlife/posts/win98_editions.htm I am still looking to see if I have any non-oem cd's but I now think that I was wrong when I said they were bootable.
Though the win98cd's I have are bootable...all the one's I have found are "generic" OEM cd's that were to "be used only with a new PC"
Gary S. Terhune - 04 May 2008 17:37 GMT What little other info I could find (besides what Franc found) suggests that at some point they did start making OEM copies bootable. But while my experience with OEM copies is limited, and my memory sucks BIG TIME, I do recall using several and don't recall them being bootable, but then, when you boil out how many times I actually used one for Setup.... Fact is, my standard setup starts with copying the WIN98 directory to the HD and otherwise using a bootable floppy (or CD version of same) (and/or BING) to prepare the disk(s) and SYS the boot drive. After that, no discs are involved.
I wonder... When shopping for a copy of XP, I found a "system builder's" version that seems to be something different than the OEM versions, though I'm not certain what difference there might be except in license (IIRC once the SB build is installed, it may never be installed again on any except the exact same hardware. No wiggle room.) I don't know the provenance of your machines, but if they come mostly from large industrial/commercial sources... Perhaps there's such a thing as an SB version of Win98SE?
 Signature Gary S. Terhune MS-MVP Shell/User www.grystmill.com
>> >> I got a laptop free and wanted to install 98 on it, a clean install >> >> for [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Though the win98cd's I have are bootable...all the one's I have found > are "generic" OEM cd's that were to "be used only with a new PC" philo - 04 May 2008 19:24 GMT > What little other info I could find (besides what Franc found) suggests that > at some point they did start making OEM copies bootable. But while my [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > machines, but if they come mostly from large industrial/commercial > sources... Perhaps there's such a thing as an SB version of Win98SE? Interesting.
Basically the machines I get could be anything. I scrounge them up from where-ever I can get them. Individuals, offices and junk piles..you name it.
I still have many of the Certificate of Authenticity booklets for the bootable win98 cd's and the ones I have are from either Gateway, Compaq or HP... and they all are just generic Microsoft cd's for win98se.
Though the books have different manufacturer names on them... the one thing is common is all of then have the same number in the lower left hand portion of the cover : X04-15747 and appear to have been printed in 1999. Or at least that is the newest copyright date I can find anywhere.
Well one thing I know I will not ever be doing ...is going with the "system builder's" version of XP...I change my hardware continuously. I am now using my Win2k machine...which is the one I seem to use most often. The HD in here has been transplanted into different machines at least 4 times now over a period of many years. Though it requires a repair install...it just keeps going without and problems.
Franc Zabkar - 04 May 2008 21:41 GMT >Basically the machines I get could be anything. >I scrounge them up from where-ever I can get them. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >and the ones I have are from either Gateway, Compaq or HP... >and they all are just generic Microsoft cd's for win98se. Why do Win98SE CDs still sell for $40 to $50 on Ebay? Surely those old PCs that use Win98 aren't worth that much. Is there a big demand for legacy equipment? Where does it all go? Charities? Old folks?
- Franc Zabkar
 Signature Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
philo - 04 May 2008 22:14 GMT <snip>
> >I still have many of the Certificate of Authenticity booklets for the > >bootable win98 cd's [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > - Franc Zabkar If win98 cd's are selling for that much on eBay... I'm in the wrong business...I figured they'd be in the $15 price range.
That said: Windows 98 still lives on.
Since I am a Microsoft authorized refurbisher who re-certifies donated machines for an NPO...our cost for an XP or Win2k license is just $5...so I am pretty much through setting up win98 machines...but there is still a demand for them.
Though I suppose old folks and charities may account for some of it... there are still plenty of individuals and businesses who rely on legacy software and devices....especially devices that require "real mode" DOS.
Many of the elderly feel they cannot learn anything newer than Win98... and though there is no reason they should have a problem with a newer OS... once you have an idea in your mind...that can often be "end of discussion".
Some of the computers...are used to run factory machinery and use specialized applications. I have a friend who keeps such equipment running. http://www.tdlelectronics.com/ Once in a while he'll come to me for a win98 or even win95 computer... just for the purposes of running the software. Since such a machine would have a replacement cost of at least a million dollars or so, they'd have no problem paying for a legacy computer...even if I wanted to charge some outrageous price.
Franc Zabkar - 05 May 2008 07:30 GMT >> Why do Win98SE CDs still sell for $40 to $50 on Ebay? Surely those old >> PCs that use Win98 aren't worth that much. Is there a big demand for [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >much through >setting up win98 machines...but there is still a demand for them. If you have a spare Win98SE CD, would you be willing to sell it to me?
- Franc Zabkar
 Signature Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.
philo - 05 May 2008 19:45 GMT > >> Why do Win98SE CDs still sell for $40 to $50 on Ebay? Surely those old > >> PCs that use Win98 aren't worth that much. Is there a big demand for [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > - Franc Zabkar Sure...I could always use the $75 <G>
Just kidding... I'll email you shortly.
hilarowg - 04 May 2008 23:14 GMT > > I got a laptop free and wanted to install 98 on it, a clean install for my > > nephew. I burned a bootcd, and managed to format and partition it, my [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Win98 cd's at least legit ones are generally bootable > so you do not need a floppy Great idea, but the CD is not a boot option and the bios has no way to make it a boot option. Any suggestions?
Thanks
Gary
philo - 04 May 2008 23:51 GMT On May 3, 5:30 pm, "philo" <ph...@privacy.net> wrote:
> "xskarmah" <xskar...@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Win98 cd's at least legit ones are generally bootable > so you do not need a floppy Great idea, but the CD is not a boot option and the bios has no way to make it a boot option. Any suggestions?
Well, as it turns out...it looks like not all cd's are bootable anyway. I have kind of lost track of the threads here...and I think someone else made this suggestion... but here is how I load win98 on laptops that have no cd or floppy drive.
I get a laptop HD to ide adaptor such as this http://www.cablestogo.com/product.asp?cat_id=906&sku=17705
Normally they only cost a few bucks
All you have to do is temporarily put the drive into a desktop pc then copy the entire win98 folder over to the laptop HD... (the drive should of course be partitioned and formatted first, if it is not already) then shut the machine down and disconnect all HD's except the laptop drive. now boot with a win98 floppy and enter the command sys C:
if you see the message "system transferred" you should be all set
now you can reassemble the desktop machine and put the small HD back in the laptop and it should bootup to the C: prompt
now enter this: cd win98 now type : setup and the installation should commence
Jeff Richards - 04 May 2008 02:28 GMT You have two options.
One is to make the ISO image setup CD you created a bootable CD. This means you will have to modify the image before creating the CD. The only way I could think to do that would be to use the boot CD you created and copy the _contents_ of the setup CD you created onto it. You might find a 'Virtual CD' utility that allows you to create a virtual CD drive on your desktop hard disk from the ISO image, and then copy the contents to the boot CD, or you could simply copy the contents of the setup CD to a folder onto the desktop hard drive, then create a _bootable_ CD and copy the contents of that folder onto it. There might be a utility that creates a bootable CD from a non-bootable ISO image, but I'm not aware of it.
The other option is to set up the laptop hard disk so that you can access the laptop's CD drive from a boot to hard disk. After partitioning and formatting the disk (as you have already done, from your description) you need to install DOS, or at least a rudimentary set of DOS utilities. You will need to SYS the hard drive, and that will enable you to boot to it. Then you can modify CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT to support the CD drive. After that, when you boot to the hard drive, you can access the ISO image CD you created, and run setup from the CD.
You will need DOS drivers for the CD drive to do this. Laptops often use special hardware and generic drivers often won't work, so the standard CD support files that are available may not be good enough. Look at the manufacturer's www site and see if they provide DOS drivers for that machine.. If the manufacturer makes DOS drivers available they should have instructions for building the CONFIG.SYS and AUTOEXEC.BAT files and copying in the software that's needed.
There is a description of setting up CD support here: http://www.computerhope.com/cdromd.htm
I'm not sure from your description, but you may have already got this far - if so the invalid media messages indicate you do not have the correct drivers for the CD drive.
Also, have a good look around the BOOT CD sites such as Barts and see if there's a source for a bootable CD that automatically configures the hard disk for you. This is a task that's very common for laptop configurations such as yours.
 Signature Jeff Richards MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
>I got a laptop free and wanted to install 98 on it, a clean install for my > nephew. I burned a bootcd, and managed to format and partition it, my [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Any suggestions? Whenever I try and use any setup commands I get invalid > media trying to read disk Gary S. Terhune - 04 May 2008 03:36 GMT My suggestion: Use IsoBuster to extract the contents of the Win98 ISO. All you need from this ISO is the folder named WIN98. The rest is generally useless. Make a bootable CD and copy the WIN98 folder to it. Boot to the CD and then run SETUP.EXE from the WIN98 folder.
But my preferred method is: If you made your original bootable CD from a WIN98 Startup floppy disk, then you should be able to run the following command: SYS C: Then copy the WIN98 folder to the hard drive, remove the CD, restart and you'll get a C:\> prompt. Run the following commands: CD WIN98 SETUP
 Signature Gary S. Terhune MS-MVP Shell/User www.grystmill.com
>I got a laptop free and wanted to install 98 on it, a clean install for my > nephew. I burned a bootcd, and managed to format and partition it, my [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Any suggestions? Whenever I try and use any setup commands I get invalid > media trying to read disk xskarmah - 04 May 2008 21:49 GMT Oh my god, such a fast response, thanks everyone. I'm still struggling, everything I seem to do doesn't seem to work. I got my disk from
Allbootdisks.com
The problem is that the laptop has an interchangeable cd and floppy drive, and I, of course don't have the floppy portion.
Okay, I've read the help file and I tried sys, I've tried the ext, I've tried everything I could think of and these are my results:
"Sys C:" re: Invalid media type reading drive C.
Ext is the extraction utility and I get somewhere, with that one at least. but I don't know exactly what to put in there.
"Ext' re: Microsoft Extract Command Line Helper Please enter the path to the windows CAB files (a:) _ "E:" re: What are the Name(s) of the File(s) that you wish to extract?_ "Win98" re: Please enter the path that you wish to extract to, ( enter for current directory) "(Enter)" I've also tried "C:" re: The options you entered were: Source path E: File(s) to extract Win98 Destination path C: Is this okay? (y/n) "y"
Error cannot open file E: \ (null)
I'm really stuck on this one, and I know I could scrap it and all, but it's become a personal vendetta and i really want completion :)
thanks so much for helping guys.
> My suggestion: Use IsoBuster to extract the contents of the Win98 ISO. All > you need from this ISO is the folder named WIN98. The rest is generally [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Any suggestions? Whenever I try and use any setup commands I get invalid > > media trying to read disk Gary S. Terhune - 05 May 2008 00:45 GMT Please pay close attention, answer ALL questions and try not to go into too much history or explanation. We'll take this step by step. I'll try to get your laptop on its way.
I presume you have a functioning machine with a CD writer and CD writing software. What software do you use (Roxio? Nero?) My Roxio allows my to create a Windows Startup disk emulation CD and add files to it. Can yours do that? Mine needs a real Windows 98 Startup floppy disk or ISO (like from bootdisk.com) to emulate (copy).
You do not use EXT to get files out of an ISO. You use ISOBuster. It's free. http://www.download.com/IsoBuster/3000-2248_4-10208087.html
You install and run ISOBuster on the machine with the CD writing ability. Use it to extract the contents of your WIN98 ISO. The result will be a folder with the contents of a Windows 98 installation CD. One of the main folders should be one called "WIN98". You want to make a Windows Startup disk emulation CD and add that folder to it.
That's enough for now. Can you make a Windows Startup CD with the WIN98 folder on it?
 Signature Gary S. Terhune MS-MVP Shell/User www.grystmill.com
> Oh my god, such a fast response, thanks everyone. I'm still struggling, > everything I seem to do doesn't seem to work. I got my disk from [quoted text clipped - 69 lines] >> > invalid >> > media trying to read disk pemo - 10 May 2008 01:16 GMT - have a similar situation. i have formatted and partitioned a laptop , i have both the external floppy and cd drive units, but while the floppy drive is hooked up with the bootdisk in it, it can't recognize, or find, a cd drive on the laptop, so ultimately i can not run the win98 install disk i have. the lap top does not have the driver installed for the cd drive. what can i do to get the cd drive working when hooked up. thanks for any info.
>I got a laptop free and wanted to install 98 on it, a clean install for my > nephew. I burned a bootcd, and managed to format and partition it, my [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > Any suggestions? Whenever I try and use any setup commands I get invalid > media trying to read disk Jeff Richards - 10 May 2008 01:45 GMT Have you checked the laptop manufacturer's www site for drivers and an installation procedure for the CD in DOS? The usual procedure is to prepare the hard drive for booting to DOS with CD support using the floppy, then do the install from the CD (or the CD copied to the hard drive) after booting to the hard drive with the CD drive connected.
If the CD is a third party product such as USB then it gets a bit trickier.
 Signature Jeff Richards MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
>- have a similar situation. i have formatted and partitioned a laptop , i > have both the external floppy and cd drive units, but while the floppy [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > can i do to get the cd drive working when hooked up. > thanks for any info. pemo - 10 May 2008 04:56 GMT thanks for reply. when bootdisk starts screen asks to choose if i want cd support. i choose yes and when bootdisk finishes screen states MCD001 not found. so when i hook up cd module it is never found on laptop. dell site has cd drivers, but when copied onto floppy and floppy put in laptop module, can't get it to load in dos. to laptop
> Have you checked the laptop manufacturer's www site for drivers and an > installation procedure for the CD in DOS? The usual procedure is to [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >> can i do to get the cd drive working when hooked up. >> thanks for any info. Jeff Richards - 10 May 2008 05:49 GMT Which bootdisk are you referring to? If it's the floppy, that won't work, even though it seems the floppy has the right files on it. The CD drivers will not load properly if the CD drive isn't connected.
If your laptop allows booting from CD, then you can use your CD writing software on the desktop machine to make a bootable DOS emergency startup CD using any of the DOS or W98 startup disks available at bootdisk.com.
Otherwise, you will need to set up the hard disk as bootable, with the required commands to install the CD drivers, then connect the CD drive and boot to the hard disk.
There's a description here: http://kb.iu.edu/data/ajgd.html
Note that your manufacturer may specify something other than the OAKCD*.SYS for the CD driver file - you may need to alter these references to suit.
Also, the site uses the name MSCD001 for the CD device name, whereas others use MSCD0001 - it doesn't matter what you use, but it is critical that you are consistent.
If you are already booting to the hard disk with the CD drive connected and you are getting that message, then the CD drivers are not loading properly. Watch the boot process very carefully to see the error message that is occurring before the MSCDxx not found message.
 Signature Jeff Richards MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
> thanks for reply. > when bootdisk starts screen asks to choose if i want cd support. i choose > yes and when bootdisk finishes screen states MCD001 not found. so when i > hook up cd module it is never found on laptop. dell site has cd drivers, > but when copied onto floppy and floppy put in laptop module, can't get it > to load in dos. to laptop pemo - 10 May 2008 15:29 GMT yes i was using a floppy bootdisk for win98. that was the operating system that was last on the laptop and the one i have a cd for reinstalling. understood. i will try that this evening. i will get the info on the floppy boot to a cd and change the laptop bios to load the cd module first at startup and see how it goes. -- i might be back! thank you jeff.
> Which bootdisk are you referring to? If it's the floppy, that won't work, > even though it seems the floppy has the right files on it. The CD drivers [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >> but when copied onto floppy and floppy put in laptop module, can't get it >> to load in dos. to laptop pemo - 11 May 2008 12:15 GMT jeff, that did it. the link to the description /walk-thru, and the instructions were perfect. thanks again
> yes i was using a floppy bootdisk for win98. that was the operating system > that was last on the laptop and the one i have a cd for reinstalling. [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] >>> drivers, but when copied onto floppy and floppy put in laptop module, >>> can't get it to load in dos. to laptop Jeff Richards - 11 May 2008 21:50 GMT Thanks for letting us know that you got it sorted out.
 Signature Jeff Richards MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
> jeff, > that did it. the link to the description /walk-thru, and the instructions > were perfect. thanks again Gary S. Terhune - 11 May 2008 22:24 GMT If you don't mind, Jeff, just so I'm sure what's what. This laptop could not boot from the CD drive, but could boot from the interchangeable floppy drive? So sufficient stuff had to be done from the floppy boot to make the HD bootable with CDROM support?
Or were bootable CD solutions viable, just not as convenient?
 Signature Gary S. Terhune MS-MVP Shell/User www.grystmill.com
> Thanks for letting us know that you got it sorted out. >> jeff, >> that did it. the link to the description /walk-thru, and the instructions >> were perfect. thanks again pemo - 12 May 2008 01:32 GMT the laptop could boot from the floppy, but while the floppy module was hooked up the cd module could not be, so when it came time to switch to the cd module to load the win98 program the laptop had not been able to recognize the cd module. i did not have a boot disk made on a cd. i chose to take the path of the walkthru and use the floppy boot disk i had, and then install from the win98 cd after. never tried if the laptop could have booted from a cd bootdisk, after i began reading the walkthru, i felt it was an option i could handle, so i never burned a boot cd.
> If you don't mind, Jeff, just so I'm sure what's what. This laptop could > not boot from the CD drive, but could boot from the interchangeable floppy [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >>> that did it. the link to the description /walk-thru, and the >>> instructions were perfect. thanks again Gary S. Terhune - 12 May 2008 02:12 GMT Thanks...
 Signature Gary S. Terhune MS-MVP Shell/User www.grystmill.com
> the laptop could boot from the floppy, but while the floppy module was > hooked up the cd module could not be, so when it came time to switch to [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >>>> that did it. the link to the description /walk-thru, and the >>>> instructions were perfect. thanks again Jeff Richards - 15 May 2008 10:00 GMT Yes - Boot from floppy and set the hard drive up to support a boot with CD-ROM support. Swap the devices, boot to hard drive and install from CD. A little more tedious perhaps but easier to follow as a step-by-step procedure, and easier to stop, review and back up if required.
 Signature Jeff Richards MS MVP (Windows - Shell/User)
> If you don't mind, Jeff, just so I'm sure what's what. This laptop could > not boot from the CD drive, but could boot from the interchangeable floppy [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >>> that did it. the link to the description /walk-thru, and the >>> instructions were perfect. thanks again Gary S. Terhune - 15 May 2008 16:55 GMT Now I just have to remember it, <s>.
 Signature Gary S. Terhune MS-MVP Shell/User www.grystmill.com
> Yes - Boot from floppy and set the hard drive up to support a boot with > CD-ROM support. Swap the devices, boot to hard drive and install from CD. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >>>> that did it. the link to the description /walk-thru, and the >>>> instructions were perfect. thanks again
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