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Windows Forum / Windows 98 / General Topics / June 2007DUN connection issues
With past help here, was able to create a DUN replacing an Ethernet connection. This machine has a Lucent winmodem, when creating the DUN it did get necessary files from my OS on CD, so in Properties, it appears normal for a DUN. Never used a winmodem before, when attempting dialup, I don't hear the normal hardware modem tones, it's quiet. Is that normal? There is no label on the two modem jacks, in one I get error 680 no dial tone- a valid phone line, so this may be the wrong jack. On the other jack, I see the screen "verifying username and password", it then disconects with error 691, can't establish DUN. Advice? ms > With past help here, was able to create a DUN replacing an Ethernet > connection. This machine has a Lucent winmodem, when creating the DUN [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > ms I have in the past saved data on setting up DUN. To add to the above: Does error 691 suggest some particular area to look into? ms >> With past help here, was able to create a DUN replacing an Ethernet >> connection. Not yet, it seems _______________ >> This machine has a Lucent winmodem, when creating the >> DUN it did get necessary files from my OS on CD, so in Properties, [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> the normal hardware modem tones, it's quiet. >> Is that normal? No. Unless you have turned off sounds or some such. ______________ >> There is no label on the two modem jacks, in one I get error 680 no >> dial tone- a valid phone line, so this may be the wrong jack. TWO modem jacks? On the computer? If so, you must have two modems, yes? Maybe one on mobo, other a card? Connect from the phone jack to the computer jack corresponding to the correct modem. _________________ >> On the other jack, I see the screen "verifying username and >> password", it then disconects with error 691, can't establish DUN. >> >> Advice? Have you checked the connection settings in the connectoid? Correct log in name and password? Dialing correct number? ___________________ > I have in the past saved data on setting up DUN. > > To add to the above: > Does error 691 suggest some particular area to look into? Sure... http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=error+691  SignaturedadiOH ____________________________ dadiOH's dandies v3.06... ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico "dadiOH" <dadiOH@guesswhere.com> wrote in news:ubt32R$tHHA.2028 @TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl: >>> With past help here, was able to create a DUN replacing an Ethernet >>> connection. > > Not yet, it seems Maybe you have nothing to do but snipe on my posts, but I have other things that need doing. > _______________ > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > No. Unless you have turned off sounds or some such. As you can see from the other replies, it can be silent, maybe as in this case. > ______________ > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > TWO modem jacks? On the computer? If so, you must have two modems, > yes? Maybe one on mobo, other a card? Wrong, every normal modem I've seen has the two jacks. > Connect from the phone jack to the computer jack corresponding to the > correct modem. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Have you checked the connection settings in the connectoid? Correct > log in name and password? Dialing correct number? Of course. > ___________________ > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Sure... > http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=error+691 Yes, in the other reply. BTW, thanks for the help in another thread in setting up the DUN, on this machine there were different problems. And IIRC, you mentioned Letter Assigner, it worked well to change the drive letters. ms >"dadiOH" <dadiOH@guesswhere.com> wrote >> TWO modem jacks? If so, you must have two modems >Wrong, every normal modem I've seen has the two jacks. It's a YMMV thing. Decent modems have 2 jacks, one to connect to the line (always present) and one to pass through to the next telephony device in the chain (may be absent). One reason it's usually absent on PCMCIA cards and laptops, is the line current that is used to "ring the bell". This can be in excess of that permitted for some stuff, so there won't be another socket to pass this (and the rest of the line's signals) on to other devices. >-------------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - - "If I'd known it was harmless, I'd have killed it myself" (PKD) >-------------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - - >>"dadiOH" <dadiOH@guesswhere.com> wrote > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >line (always present) and one to pass through to the next telephony >device in the chain (may be absent). I've observed that there are at least three ways of wiring the two jacks. (1) Wire them in parallel so that they are always connected to each other. In this case it doesn't matter which is Phone and which is Line. (2) Wire them to a DPDT relay which disconnects the Phone jack when the Line goes off-hook. This prevents the call being accidentally disconnected when someone picks up a phone or fax attached to the modem. (3) Wire them to a DPDT relay as in (2) but connect the phone to a 20mA power source on the modem. This allows the phone to be used as an input device in voice mode, eg to record a message for a software answering machine, or for simultaneous voice and data. - Franc Zabkar SignaturePlease remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email. On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 07:35:27 +1000, Franc Zabkar >On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 16:49:11 +0200, "cquirke" >>>"dadiOH" <dadiOH@guesswhere.com> wrote Ah thanks Franc; this is a "keeper" :-) >>>> TWO modem jacks? If so, you must have two modems >>>Wrong, every normal modem I've seen has the two jacks. >>It's a YMMV thing. Decent modems have 2 jacks, one to connect to the >>line (always present) and one to pass through to the next device >I've observed that there are at least three ways of wiring two jacks. >(1) Wire them in parallel so that they are always connected to each >other. In this case it doesn't matter which is Phone and which is >Line. Hmm... so in that case, it's no better than a line splitter, and anyone who picks up whatever's in the other socket will most likely kill the connection (ar at least, force a retrain). Bummer - I'd hoped it was "smarter" than that :-/ >(2) Wire them to a DPDT relay which disconnects the Phone jack when >the Line goes off-hook. This prevents the call being accidentally >disconnected when someone picks up a phone or fax attached to the >modem. That's what I'm used to, and like - except it's hard to read the LINE and PHONE words stamped in chrome and badly-lit etc. >(3) Wire them to a DPDT relay as in (2) but connect the phone to a >20mA power source on the modem. This allows the phone to be used as an >input device in voice mode, eg to record a message for a software >answering machine, or for simultaneous voice and data. That's new, something I didn't know. Wrong forum to ask, but; do XP and Vista have anything that can take calls, recording voice messages a la answering machine as well as the usual taking of faxes? It always annoys me when MS focus on "dancing pigs" (such as animated menus etc.) when that sort of basic functionality is absent. >--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - Who is General Failure and why is he reading my disk? >--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - >On Thu, 28 Jun 2007 07:35:27 +1000, Franc Zabkar >>(3) Wire them to a DPDT relay as in (2) but connect the phone to a >>20mA power source on the modem. This allows the phone to be used as an >>input device in voice mode, eg to record a message for a software >>answering machine, or for simultaneous voice and data. > >That's new, something I didn't know. I've only ever seen this feature in a circuit diagram and in the list of AT voice commands. The command, AT#VLS (Voice Line Select), selects the devices (line, handset, speaker, microphone) which are routed through the modem. More info here: http://www.infoserve.com/online/manuals/56-man/15-voc2.htm I believe one of my internal modems had this capability in the artwork, but the relay etches were linked out, resulting in the line and phone sockets being wired together. >Wrong forum to ask, but; do XP >and Vista have anything that can take calls, recording voice messages >a la answering machine as well as the usual taking of faxes? I don't use any of those products. Sorry. I'd normally suggest that you ask at comp.dcom.modems, but this subject is rarely discussed there. In fact the group is very quiet these days. >It always annoys me when MS focus on "dancing pigs" (such as animated >menus etc.) when that sort of basic functionality is absent. - Franc Zabkar SignaturePlease remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email. >>>> There is no label on the two modem jacks, in one I get error 680 >>>> no dial tone- a valid phone line, so this may be the wrong jack. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Wrong, every normal modem I've seen has the two jacks. My boo boo, I thought you meant 2 *pairs** of jacks on the back of the machine. Line in and line out are normally indicated by a stamping in the metal. SignaturedadiOH ____________________________ dadiOH's dandies v3.06... ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico "dadiOH" <dadiOH@guesswhere.com> wrote in news:e8IJmcBuHHA.736 @TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl: >>>>> There is no label on the two modem jacks, in one I get error 680 >>>>> no dial tone- a valid phone line, so this may be the wrong jack. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > machine. Line in and line out are normally indicated by a stamping in > the metal. I've seen the ID once in awhile, but not here, no ID at all. ms > "dadiOH" <dadiOH@guesswhere.com> wrote in news:ubt32R$tHHA.2028 > @TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Maybe you have nothing to do but snipe on my posts... Facts are facts SignaturedadiOH ____________________________ dadiOH's dandies v3.06... ...a help file of info about MP3s, recording from LP/cassette and tips & tricks on this and that. Get it at http://mysite.verizon.net/xico >> With past help here, was able to create a DUN replacing an Ethernet >> connection. This machine has a Lucent winmodem, when creating the DUN [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > ms ms: One jack is for a telephone the other is for the telephone cord that goes to the wall jack / surge suppressor. The lack of the useual "modem sounds" is a setting of the modem Init string (ATM0 IIRC). Even old analog modems could be put into this mode so you don't have to worry about this. The "Error 691" usually has to do with an incorrect password or authentication setting. Some systems require USERNAME@SERVICE format some just USERNAME. More info here: http://www.modemhelp.net/dunerror/error_691.shtml http://members.tripod.com/paltech/error691.html http://www.modemhelp.org/troubleshooting/winerror691.html Good Luck. John Signature\\\||/// ------------------o000----(o)(o)----000o---------------- ----------------------------()-------------------------- '' Madness takes its toll - Please have exact change. '' John Dulak - Gnomeway Services - http://tinyurl.com/2qs6o6 >>> With past help here, was able to create a DUN replacing an Ethernet >>> connection. This machine has a Lucent winmodem, when creating the DUN [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > old analog modems could be put into this mode so you don't have to > worry about this. Thanks, John Yes, but is there any usual setup, left one is phone, right one is line connection? Is there any standard designation? > The "Error 691" usually has to do with an incorrect password or > authentication setting. Some systems require USERNAME@SERVICE format [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > John My username, password are correct as they are used on 2 other machines to connect to the same ISP. So it's something else, reflected in error 691. I will look into the above links. ms >With past help here, was able to create a DUN replacing an Ethernet >connection. This machine has a Lucent winmodem, when creating the DUN it >did get necessary files from my OS on CD, so in Properties, it appears >normal for a DUN. >Never used a winmodem before, when attempting dialup, I don't hear the >normal hardware modem tones, it's quiet. >Is that normal? It can be. The traditional (but rather "extended" standard) ST command set that controls the modem, has a command to control this; either "all noise always", "noise until handshaking is done" (as you are used to) and "no noise". There's another command for setting modem speaker volume to one of about 3 levels, too. Then again, the modem may lack a hardware speaker, and pass on its "noises" to the PC's sound system, where it may be muted or undriven. >There is no label on the two modem jacks, in one I get error 680 no dial >tone- a valid phone line, so this may be the wrong jack. Some recent modems will sense which socket is which, so that it no longer matters. Else the pattern you will have, with a phone handset plugged into one socket and the line into the other, will be: Correct - handset hears dial tone, can dial out - modem won't connect Incorrect - handset hears dial tone, can dial out - modem may or may not connect The tricks here is that either way, the phone works, and that other problems may stop the modem dialing out (e.g. it doesn't recognise the dial tone, or you're on a "dial 0 to get a line" exchange, etc.) See: http://cquirke.mvps.org/9x/dundebug.htm There are AT commands to suppress the detection of dial, busy, or both tones. Try X0 (i.e. ATX0) in the "extra settings" field in modem Properties; if that works, try less restrictive values (1,2,3,4). I used to remember the values... ah: X4 - all X3 - disable dial tone detection (try that) X2 - disable busy detection X1 - disable busy and dial tone (try that) X0 - really dumb down everything (last resort) See: http://www.modemhelp.net/basicatcommand.shtml#X >On the other jack, I see the screen "verifying username and password", it >then disconects with error 691, can't establish DUN. OK; that's a better class of error :-) >Advice? Sounds like the modem hanshakes OK, but the logon process fails. - is it the right phone number for the right ISP? - is your ISP account functional? - correct user id? - correct pwd? - correct networking protocols? - what's the line quality like? - does the modem log confirm error correction? Line quality issues, or lack of error correction, will give variable mileage; sometimes it may work. Bad id, pwd, no ISP account or wrong phone number (e.g. old ISP) will never work. Check the network settings for the dial-up adapter: - DO NOT BIND FILE AND PRINT SHARING!! - Family Login, rather than any "real" network client - TCP/IP only, no NetBEUI or IPX - don't assign yourself an IP address - UNcheck "log on to network", it's not needed Also, when you start Windows 9x, don't "cancel" any login dialog that you get on startup. If you do, you cut all networking, including DUN. >--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - Error Messages Are Your Friends >--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - >>With past help here, was able to create a DUN replacing an Ethernet >>connection. This machine has a Lucent winmodem, when creating the DUN [quoted text clipped - 77 lines] > Also, when you start Windows 9x, don't "cancel" any login dialog that > you get on startup. If you do, you cut all networking, including DUN. That last tip- in 2 W98 machines (and a W2K machine) with working DUN's, I always cancel the login screen at each bootup, never had a problem ?? Thanks for a very helpful reply. ms >> Also, when you start Windows 9x, don't "cancel" any login dialog that >> you get on startup. If you do, you cut all networking, including DUN. > >That last tip- in 2 W98 machines (and a W2K machine) with working DUN's, >I always cancel the login screen at each bootup, never had a problem ?? Do you rely on the PC remembering your logon pasword? If not, you may be OK; the effect may be only to "forget" remembered passwords (the "remember password"checkbox will be greyed out) and go no further. I haven't tried using networking or Internet in such situations (or if I did, I can't remember the mileage) so I dunno if the lack of login goes further to prevent network or Internet access. Also, it may depend on what your primary login has been selected to; that's a setting I've had no reason to play with, so far :-) I first saw this hassle in the Win95 days: - Win95 system is working OK - a LAN card is added - now it prompts for password on every boot - user cancels password prompt - but complains can't see the LAN, can't connect to 'net This was hard to avoid, because Win95 obliged you to use a "real"network client to remember the DUN password. If you dumped the client, you'd avoid useless network icon on the desktop and the logon prompt when booting Windows, but you'd also lose ability to "remember" the password used to DUN into the Internet. This got easier in Win98, which added the Family Login "client", which didn't do "real"networking but did remember DUN passwords for you, without network icons on the desktop or prompting logon on boot. >------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - - Our senses are our UI to reality >------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - - >With past help here, was able to create a DUN replacing an Ethernet >connection. This machine has a Lucent winmodem, when creating the DUN it >did get necessary files from my OS on CD, so in Properties, it appears >normal for a DUN. >Never used a winmodem before, when attempting dialup, I don't hear the >normal hardware modem tones, it's quiet. >Is that normal? Is this a plug-in Lucent modem card or is the Lucent hardware built into the motherboard? In a plug-in Lucent Winmodem, it's likely that the card has no speaker hardware. In that case, to hear the modem sounds it's necessary to connect a cable (similar to the audio cable for a CD-ROM drive) from a connector on the modem card to the AUX input of the sound card (or motherboard sound hardware). Signature--Donald Davis [To respond by e-mail, remove "blackhole." from the address.] >>With past help here, was able to create a DUN replacing an Ethernet >>connection. This machine has a Lucent winmodem, when creating the DUN [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > cable for a CD-ROM drive) from a connector on the modem card to the > AUX input of the sound card (or motherboard sound hardware). This is a internal modem, whether a card or builtin, don't know yet, will open it up later. It is, BTW, a desktop machine, should have mentioned that earlier as there are a lot of laptops out there. >This is a internal modem, whether a card or builtin, don't know yet, will >open it up later. >It is, BTW, a desktop machine, should have mentioned that earlier as >there are a lot of laptops out there. You should be able to tell whether it's built-in or a plug-in card without having to open the case. If it's built-in, the phone-line sockets will be fixed into the back of the motherboard. In that case, I'd expect the modem/sound hardware connection to be within the motherboard circuitry; if so, the missing-modem-sounds problem is not due to a missing cable connection. But if the modem is on a removable PCI card, open the case and check that there is a cable connecting it to the audio AUX input. Signature--Donald Davis [To respond by e-mail, remove "blackhole." from the address.] > This is a internal modem, whether a card or builtin, don't know yet, will > open it up later. > > It is, BTW, a desktop machine, should have mentioned that earlier as > there are a lot of laptops out there You are trying to solve everything at once. Therefore you are confused - as are so many replies. Break the problem down into parts. Establish modem 'system' integrity one sub-part at a time. For example, first, does motherboard computer even talk to 'modem computer'? Do you know? If not, then don't even add Windows driver complexities to your problem. Does the modem come with a hardware diagnostic? Did you execute it? Another way to start determine 'motherboard talks to modem computer' is to use HyperTerminal. Procedure is simple. Once Hyperterminal selects modem's COM port, then keyboard sends letters to modem. Modem answers with text on screen. Some procedures are described in http://www.modemsite.com/56k/x2-hyperterm.asp or http://www.modemsite.com/56k/usehyper.asp A simpler versions of same is: Use File>Options to select "Connect using" to COM ports or modems. Once you have selected the modem, then enter commands from keyboard to see modem talk back to screen. Enter the command AT&FZ <enter> to reset the modem. Or enter AT&F <enter>, then ATZ <enter> to do same thing. Then every command AT <enter> results in a response OK . Don't worry about anything - even telephone line. First establish motherboard and modem talk to each other. Only then do you move on to the next step which is to command modem to do simplest things such as 'close off-hook relay' - equivalent to picking up the phone. |
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