Windows Forum / Windows 98 / General Topics / May 2008
I believe it may be a virus or trojan horse
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CdLSRN - 25 May 2008 03:33 GMT This is a follow up to my 'can't get online' post. When I run Spybot it goes 3/4 of the way then a box pops up that says there is something wrong with my trojan checker. If I say o.k. it continues and says my system is clear. However, I am missing 3 files from IE6 (MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLR.DLL.
Gary S. Terhune - 25 May 2008 05:42 GMT More likely it's an anti-malware program(s) mucking things up. Too many cooks kind of thing where the various anti-malware apps don't get along properly. What other anti-malware applications do you have installed? Any that run in the background? Do you use any of SpyBot's protections? Immunization, etc.? Do you have a HOSTS file? Might be a program called Hosts File Manager if you've followed this NG for a while. If so, you'll want to disable the HOSTS file itself.
This is all to test, you understand. If disabling another app fixes the problem, then leave everything else enabled and see how long it works.
If you have Avast! installed, can you Update it and then run a manual scan? (Good to do the scan in a Clean Boot environment.)
 Signature Gary S. Terhune MS-MVP Shell/User www.grystmill.com
> This is a follow up to my 'can't get online' post. When I run Spybot it > goes 3/4 of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > missing 3 files > from IE6 (MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLR.DLL. dadiOH - 25 May 2008 11:05 GMT > Do you have a HOSTS file? Might be a > program called Hosts File Manager if you've followed this NG for a > while. If so, you'll want to disable the HOSTS file itself. That may be a BINGO. If I were she, I would rename it and see if I could get online. The botched Avast uninstall may have left things directed back to 127.0.0.1
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Gary S. Terhune - 25 May 2008 18:04 GMT I wish my memory was better, but as of a couple of years ago, I stopped using HOSTS File Manager for some reason, and thus gave up on the HOSTS file itself. Or vice versa, can't remember. (SpywareBlaster is pretty much all I use for that kind of passive protection.) Wish I could recall the circumstances, but it may have been something quite like this, if not this exact problem.
 Signature Gary S. Terhune MS-MVP Shell/User www.grystmill.com
>> Do you have a HOSTS file? Might be a >> program called Hosts File Manager if you've followed this NG for a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > get online. The botched Avast uninstall may have left things directed > back to 127.0.0.1 letterman@invalid.com - 25 May 2008 06:12 GMT >This is a follow up to my 'can't get online' post. When I run Spybot it goes 3/4 of >the way then a box pops up that says there is something wrong with my trojan checker. >If I say o.k. it continues and says my system is clear. However, I am missing 3 files >from IE6 (MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLR.DLL. Do you have a backup of your Windows installation? Just copy those 3 files to C:\Windows\System. If not, do you have a friend that uses Win98 and IE6? You said your email works, so have them email you those 3 files. If binaries were allowed on here, I'd zip them and upload them to you. If you cant get them elsewhere, I will email them to you in one zip file. By the way, you have two names the same (above). On my system, MSXMLA.DLL is 15K MSXMLR.DLL is 26K
all small files..... What's the 3rd one you need?
CdLSRN - 25 May 2008 07:07 GMT The first, actually is MSXML.DLL, MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLR.DLL.
> >This is a follow up to my 'can't get online' post. When I run Spybot it goes 3/4 of > >the way then a box pops up that says there is something wrong with my trojan checker. [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > > all small files..... What's the 3rd one you need? MEB - 25 May 2008 06:27 GMT That is possible, however, you would need to install a few programs to test for such. These programs MAY not function properly if you are missing some key files.
QUESTION:
Did you contact Gary for those CDROMS he has referred to? The Security Updates CD contains the installer for IE6 {which will replace those files that you are missing. NOTE: you would then need to check on windowsupdate to see if you needed any more updates. IF NOT then did you attempt to FTP the IE6 installation files from somewhere [because you can't apparently use a browser]?
THE REASON:
IF you re-install IE6 you may downgrade some of the updates already applied to your system. Using the supplied CD-ROMs could potentially place you in a compromised condition, which we refer to as "DLL hell" {mismatched DLLs in the system and registry}. Moreover, you have some files in your system which should not apparently be there.
THE PROBLEM:
IF you truly do have missing files then either you removed them or something else did. That something could be a virus or otherwise. IF you are infected, then merely replacing the files WILL NOT ensure that your system is free of that potential hack or virus. Moreover, if you have a virus, there is a potential that whatever you would download may become infected during the attempt.
REGRETFULLY:
This may mean you need to prepare to re-install the system and programs on a clean and checked disk. *IF* you have those disks Gary suggested, then you would only need your 98(FE/SE} installation CDROM, driver, and application installers to get back online, from there you can search for anything you may be missing. One warning is, if you have older programs, then they would likely need installed soon after the fresh installation, and updated if you have those files..
YOUR FILES:
How did you get those versions? Do you have Office 2003 or something, or did you install an XP update or was one suggested somewhere? Did you install an un-official update or two? Or are we actually talking about XP here:
List of Microsoft XML Parser (MSXML) versions http://support.microsoft.com/kb/269238
Microsoft Security Bulletin MS06-061 http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/ms06-061.mspx
MS06-071: Security update for Microsoft XML Core Services 4.0 http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927978
 Signature MEB http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com -- _________
| This is a follow up to my 'can't get online' post. When I run Spybot it goes 3/4 of | the way then a box pops up that says there is something wrong with my trojan checker. | If I say o.k. it continues and says my system is clear. However, I am missing 3 files | from IE6 (MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLR.DLL. MEB - 25 May 2008 06:47 GMT Oops: You would also need a boot floppy to fdisk and format, and start the computer.
 Signature MEB http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com -- _________
| That is possible, however, you would need to install a few programs to test | for such. These programs MAY not function properly if you are missing some [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] | missing 3 files | | from IE6 (MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLR.DLL. Gary S. Terhune - 25 May 2008 06:55 GMT She now has IE6SP1 and the CDs will be in Monday's mail. How can she determine provenance of the DLLs if she doesn't have them on her system anymore.
 Signature Gary S. Terhune MS-MVP Shell/User www.grystmill.com
> That is possible, however, you would need to install a few programs to > test [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] > missing 3 files > | from IE6 (MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLR.DLL. MEB - 25 May 2008 08:34 GMT | She now has IE6SP1 and the CDs will be in Monday's mail. How can she | determine provenance of the DLLs if she doesn't have them on her system | anymore. She has the 4.0 DLLs. She should have 3.0.... have her check what versions of all those files are to isolate where they came from...
See this to review they might have come from: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/269238
Check this for 3.0 http://support.microsoft.com/?scid=ph;en-us;3346
Check this for Office 2003 http://support.microsoft.com/?scid=ph;en-us;2488
If she has installed something or attempted to install something not called for into 98, then installing IE6 will NOT correct all the issues involved.
 Signature MEB http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com -- _________
| > That is possible, however, you would need to install a few programs to | > test [quoted text clipped - 68 lines] | > missing 3 files | > | from IE6 (MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLR.DLL. Gary S. Terhune - 25 May 2008 08:52 GMT Oh, OK. I missed that list. Good catch.
 Signature Gary S. Terhune MS-MVP Shell/User www.grystmill.com
> | She now has IE6SP1 and the CDs will be in Monday's mail. How can she > | determine provenance of the DLLs if she doesn't have them on her system [quoted text clipped - 110 lines] > | > missing 3 files > | > | from IE6 (MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLR.DLL. MEB - 25 May 2008 08:57 GMT Seems we used to do this a few years ago, early morning posts covering each others backs... I'm going to bed... catch ya tomorrow, er later,,,
 Signature MEB http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com -- _________
| Oh, OK. I missed that list. Good catch. | [quoted text clipped - 112 lines] | > | > missing 3 files | > | > | from IE6 (MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLR.DLL. CdLSRN - 25 May 2008 18:44 GMT I just rebooted my computer a couple of times and pressed esc when the dell page came up.... there is something there that could explain why , when I have 74% of my memory free, it is telling me I only have 34mb free. (I have 350mb). Anyway it says in the dos mode while starting up, "Vortex Dos Audio driver 2.0" (which I don't believe I have),"Interrupt 5, Ports 220-22fh DMA 3, Joystick 201h" I do not have a joystick, No games have ever been played on this computer. Is someone else using my computer since I have lost all protection?
> She now has IE6SP1 and the CDs will be in Monday's mail. How can she > determine provenance of the DLLs if she doesn't have them on her system [quoted text clipped - 72 lines] > > missing 3 files > > | from IE6 (MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLR.DLL. MEB - 25 May 2008 19:00 GMT NO. Likely you have an Aureal Vortex based sound card installed... please see and answer the questions I placed previously. The more misdirections that you place will cause your issues to be extended for days or weeks without resolution.
 Signature MEB http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com -- _________
| I just rebooted my computer a couple of times and pressed esc when the dell page came | up.... there is something there that could explain why , when I have 74% of my memory [quoted text clipped - 80 lines] | > > missing 3 files | > > | from IE6 (MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLR.DLL. philo - 25 May 2008 21:27 GMT > She now has IE6SP1 and the CDs will be in Monday's mail. How can she > determine provenance of the DLLs if she doesn't have them on her system > anymore. If you need to make a special trip to the post office... wait 'til Tue. as Monday is a holiday!
> Gary S. Terhune > MS-MVP Shell/User [quoted text clipped - 72 lines] > > missing 3 files > > | from IE6 (MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLR.DLL. Gary S. Terhune - 26 May 2008 00:22 GMT By golly, you're right. No, I just walk 30' to the mailbox, pop it in and put up the flag. Might have to dodge some rain, but...
 Signature Gary S. Terhune MS-MVP Shell/User www.grystmill.com
>> She now has IE6SP1 and the CDs will be in Monday's mail. How can she >> determine provenance of the DLLs if she doesn't have them on her system [quoted text clipped - 93 lines] >> > missing 3 files >> > | from IE6 (MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLR.DLL. philo - 26 May 2008 01:03 GMT > By golly, you're right. No, I just walk 30' to the mailbox, pop it in and > put up the flag. Might have to dodge some rain, but... A 30' walk is not too bad...
Just mentioned it incase you were driving. with the price of gas, I expect to see a lot more people walking!
> >> She now has IE6SP1 and the CDs will be in Monday's mail. How can she > >> determine provenance of the DLLs if she doesn't have them on her system [quoted text clipped - 93 lines] > >> > missing 3 files > >> > | from IE6 (MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLR.DLL. Gary S. Terhune - 26 May 2008 01:37 GMT Me? Drive? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
 Signature Gary S. Terhune MS-MVP Shell/User www.grystmill.com
>> By golly, you're right. No, I just walk 30' to the mailbox, pop it in and >> put up the flag. Might have to dodge some rain, but... [quoted text clipped - 119 lines] >> >> > missing 3 files >> >> > | from IE6 (MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLR.DLL. philo - 26 May 2008 17:31 GMT > Me? Drive? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!! I guess you would not need a car to drive the 30' to the mailbox <G>
I once saw a guy drive his car to the end of the block, then do a U turn so he would not have to drive to a bar that was almost across the street from his house. The bar was probably 30 feet from the sidewalk in front of his house.
A friend of mine who I was visiting pointed it out to me that his neigbor made that drive almost every day!
> Gary S. Terhune > MS-MVP Shell/User [quoted text clipped - 123 lines] > >> >> > missing 3 files > >> >> > | from IE6 (MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLR.DLL. Buffalo - 26 May 2008 18:18 GMT > I guess you would not need a car to drive the 30' to the mailbox <G> > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > neigbor made that drive > almost every day! Wait a minute, I'm confused. He did a U-turn so that he would not have to drive to a bar that was 30' from his home sidewalk???
Buffalo - 26 May 2008 18:27 GMT >> I guess you would not need a car to drive the 30' to the mailbox <G> >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > He did a U-turn so that he would not have to drive to a bar that was > 30' from his home sidewalk??? OK, you probably meant 'so he would not have to walk ' . I'm a little slow this morning. :)
philo - 27 May 2008 02:26 GMT > >> I guess you would not need a car to drive the 30' to the mailbox <G> > >> [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > OK, you probably meant 'so he would not have to walk ' . I'm a little slow > this morning. :) Yes, basically he drove the equivalent of a little more than a block to avoid walkiing perhaps 30 or 40 feet. Worse still , it was to a bar...presumably to drink. And I presume he drove home afterwords.
Amazing!
Gary S. Terhune - 27 May 2008 03:07 GMT >> >> I guess you would not need a car to drive the 30' to the mailbox <G> >> >> [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > > Amazing! Gotta stay in practice! Driving drunk ain't easy!
 Signature Gary S. Terhune MS-MVP Shell/User www.grystmill.com
glee - 25 May 2008 13:26 GMT Since you've started a new thread, I will continue here.
First, I need to see if you have a proxy set up in the browsers.....if you do, you need to remove those settings.
For IE6: Start Internet Explorer. Click the Tools menu> Internet Options Click the Connections tab. Click on the |LAN Settings| button. If there a check in the box for "Use a proxy server for your LAN", uncheck the box and click OK all the way out, then close a re-open IE.
For Firefox 2.x: Start Firefox. Click the Tools menu> Options. Click the Advanced button on the Options window's toolbar. Click the |Settings| button in the Connection section. In the section "Configure proxies to access the Internet", make sure "Direct connection to the Internet" is selected (NOT Manual Proxy Configuration), and if you had to change it, click OK all the way out. Close Firefox and then re-open it.
For Firefox 1.5.x (this is from memory, as I don't have it installed): Open Firefox. Click the Tools menu> Options. Click the General tab. Click the |Connection Settings| button in the Connection section at the bottom of the window. In the section "Configure proxies to access the Internet", make sure "Direct connection to the Internet" is selected (NOT Manual Proxy Configuration), and if you had to change it, click OK all the way out. Close Firefox and then re-open it.
Post back to THIS thread with what you found there, in each case, and if you made the changes if required. Don't just post back with a one-liner reply like "It didn't work" or "It wasn't there".....those type answers are useless. Provide details as to what you find and what you change. Take notes and use them, please.
 Signature Glen Ventura, MS MVP Windows, A+ http://dts-l.net/ http://dts-l.net/goodpost.htm
> This is a follow up to my 'can't get online' post. When I run Spybot it goes 3/4 > of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > files > from IE6 (MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLR.DLL. CdLSRN - 25 May 2008 18:50 GMT ie6 is the only browser I have now and I do not have a proxy. but I found while re-booting "Vortex Dos Audio driver 2.0, Interrupt 5, Ports 220-22fh dma3, Joystick 201h". I have no joystick, or Vortex and games have NEVER been played on this computer.
> Since you've started a new thread, I will continue here. > [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > > files > > from IE6 (MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLR.DLL. letterman@invalid.com - 25 May 2008 22:37 GMT >ie6 is the only browser I have now and I do not have a proxy. but I found while >re-booting "Vortex Dos Audio driver 2.0, Interrupt 5, Ports 220-22fh dma3, Joystick >201h". I have no joystick, or Vortex and games have NEVER been played on this >computer. Just a thought. How much important software do you have installed on your computer?
I ask this because if all you really have is Win98 and the things that come with it, plus a few other things, maybe you'd be better off just starting over. I always fix my computer and find the problem, but I have lots of software installed and lots of personal data. But if all you have is the basic Win98 CD files and a few other programs, for example you might have photoshop, quicken, and a couple shareware programs, it might be easier to just backup all personal files, such as your email data, your bookmarks, your photos, stuff like the Quicken data files, and any saved web pages, downloads, music, etc. Then format the harddrive and reinstall Windows and your other programs.
For me, a reinstall means spending weeks getting all my programs reinstalled, but if all you have comes off the Win98 CD, and a few other CDs, it's often easier to just reinstall.
I know your problem is repairable, but is it worth the amount of time spent to do it, when a reinstall may be faster.
Just a thought !!!
Buffalo - 26 May 2008 01:53 GMT In case it is spyware causing the problems, try the free versio of SuperAntispyware which can be dl'd at the same name and adding a .com. Download it, install it, update it and then run it.
You can always just uninstall it if you don't want it. The free version is just as powerful as the paid version except that it is on-demand only instead of full-time plus a few other features.
If you do try it and decide to uninstall it, make sure superantispyware is not running or showing on your task bar before using the uninstall.
Those three files (MSXML.DLL, MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLR.DLL) can be be copied from another Win98 machine or possibly from the install Win98SE cd. They are fairly small in size, 525kb total. Put them in the C:\Windows\Systems folder. On my Win98SE system, those files are version 8.0.6730.0.
> This is a follow up to my 'can't get online' post. When I run Spybot > it goes 3/4 of the way then a box pops up that says there is > something wrong with my trojan checker. If I say o.k. it continues > and says my system is clear. However, I am missing 3 files from IE6 > (MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLR.DLL. Gary S. Terhune - 27 May 2008 03:31 GMT Follow up to: "IE Running well so far"
 Signature Gary S. Terhune MS-MVP Shell/User www.grystmill.com
> This is a follow up to my 'can't get online' post. When I run Spybot it > goes 3/4 of [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > missing 3 files > from IE6 (MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLR.DLL. CdLSRN - 27 May 2008 08:36 GMT Finally, after Gary fixed IE, (Thank you so much.) Smart guy......Avast sent me this e-mail: "Hello,
You should allow web shield avast! provider to access internet in your firewall settings.
You can remove existing rules for avast in your firewall, then start avast update (or restart Windows to trigger auto-update check). When firewall asks, allow avast.setup access to internet and create the rule again. If your firewall has option that allowed program changes often, set it too.
For the correct operation the Web Shield process (ashWebSv.exe or aswWebSv.exe) needs a permission to access the Internet (TCP port 80) and a permission to act as a server and accept incoming connections from localhost (the local machine) on TCP port 12080.
Best Regards,
Petr Bucek Technical Support Alwil Software a.s."
It took them 4 days to respond. They are in Russia so I doubt it was a holiday weekend for them. Then Gary fixed OE. My PC is running great so far. I just need a little fire wall. Thank you all so much for not giving up on me, and I'm sorry for the different strings. Ginny
> Follow up to: "IE Running well so far" > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > missing 3 files > > from IE6 (MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLR.DLL. glee - 28 May 2008 02:21 GMT I hesitate to add anything further, but on Win98, Avast's Web Shield does not work unless you set proxy settings manually in the browser. I suspect the reply you received from Avast support did not take into account that you are using Win98.
http://www.avast.com/eng/webshield_issues.html#idt_6869
http://www.avast.com/files/tutorials/ws_ieproxy.htm http://www.avast.com/files/tutorials/ws_ffproxy.htm
Since Gary appears to be helping you via private email, you should let Gary decide whether it is worth implementing this on your system. I have not, on my Win98 system with Avast, but I'm pretty careful about how I traverse the Internet. YMMV.
 Signature Glen Ventura, MS MVP Windows, A+ http://dts-l.net/ http://dts-l.net/goodpost.htm
> Finally, after Gary fixed IE, (Thank you so much.) Smart guy......Avast sent me > this [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] >> > missing 3 files >> > from IE6 (MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLR.DLL. CdLSRN - 28 May 2008 05:22 GMT Thanks Glen, I'll look into that. Ginny
> I hesitate to add anything further, but on Win98, Avast's Web Shield does not work > unless you set proxy settings manually in the browser. I suspect the reply you [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > >> > missing 3 files > >> > from IE6 (MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLR.DLL. PCR - 28 May 2008 06:28 GMT | I hesitate to add anything further, but on Win98, Avast's Web Shield | does not work unless you set proxy settings manually in the browser. | I suspect the reply you received from Avast support did not take into | account that you are using Win98. | | http://www.avast.com/eng/webshield_issues.html#idt_6869 I've implemented that, as it seemed to improve avast!'s performance at... http://www.eicar.org/anti_virus_test_file.htm
On the one occasion I temporarily uninstalled an earlier sub-version of avast!, the setting was not automatically undone. That makes sense, since it was manually implemented in the first place on this Win98 machine-- but one must remember to undo it manually (I guess), in the event one wants to uninstall avast! for good. If not undone, I'm thinking the NET won't work!
| http://www.avast.com/files/tutorials/ws_ieproxy.htm | http://www.avast.com/files/tutorials/ws_ffproxy.htm [quoted text clipped - 54 lines] |>> > I am missing 3 files |>> > from IE6 (MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLR.DLL.
 Signature Thanks or Good Luck, There may be humor in this post, and, Naturally, you will not sue, Should things get worse after this, PCR pcrrcp@netzero.net
CdLSRN - 28 May 2008 07:30 GMT Thank you. I guess I am finally learning that less is more. Gin
> | I hesitate to add anything further, but on Win98, Avast's Web Shield > | does not work unless you set proxy settings manually in the browser. [quoted text clipped - 72 lines] > |>> > I am missing 3 files > |>> > from IE6 (MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLA.DLL, MSXMLR.DLL. Bill in Co. - 28 May 2008 08:05 GMT And THAT is a good thing to learn (less IS more). Kudos to you!
> Thank you. I guess I am finally learning that less is more. Gin > [quoted text clipped - 82 lines] >> PCR >> pcrrcp@netzero.net PCR - 29 May 2008 02:25 GMT | Thank you. I guess I am finally learning that less is more. Gin You are welcome. Alright. I'm glad to see Terhune got your machine back into shape. You kept him pretty busy, looks like, & a few others as well. But Terhune especially had been fairly ornery & lazy lately-- until you got him busy again!
|> | I hesitate to add anything further, but on Win98, Avast's Web |> | Shield does not work unless you set proxy settings manually in the [quoted text clipped - 80 lines] |> PCR |> pcrrcp@netzero.net
 Signature Thanks or Good Luck, There may be humor in this post, and, Naturally, you will not sue, Should things get worse after this, PCR pcrrcp@netzero.net
Gary S. Terhune - 29 May 2008 03:46 GMT In re "ornery", check with MEB on that one.
 Signature Gary S. Terhune MS-MVP Shell/User www.grystmill.com
> | Thank you. I guess I am finally learning that less is more. Gin > [quoted text clipped - 87 lines] > |> PCR > |> pcrrcp@netzero.net PCR - 29 May 2008 03:57 GMT | In re "ornery", check with MEB on that one. MEB -- I know -- has at least one ticklish issue of his own -- that MS Live thing. I see you discussed it a bit & was surprised to see little blood was shed. That was a big improvement for both of you!
| -- | Gary S. Terhune [quoted text clipped - 101 lines] |> PCR |> pcrrcp@netzero.net
 Signature Thanks or Good Luck, There may be humor in this post, and, Naturally, you will not sue, Should things get worse after this, PCR pcrrcp@netzero.net
MEB - 29 May 2008 06:11 GMT Just muckin around a bit,,, oh all right maybe a *little* bit ornery, digesting all these statutes and Code is killing me... plus they leave a bad taste in your mouth
 Signature MEB http://peoplescounsel.orgfree.com -- _________
| In re "ornery", check with MEB on that one. | [quoted text clipped - 89 lines] | > |> PCR | > |> pcrrcp@netzero.net
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