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Windows Forum / Windows Me / Setup / April 2008New PC, ME with old BIOS
That's the best I can describe it. I have a hard drive from my old PC with ME on it. It won't boot in Normal Mode in my new PC, I suspect because it was mad with a different BIOS. However, it boots just fine in Safe Mode. Is there a way to get around this? (I hope I made it clear enough). Thanks. William, What happens exactly when you start Windows in Normal Mode? Zee > That's the best I can describe it. > I have a hard drive from my old PC [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > (I hope I made it clear enough). > Thanks. Besides Zee's most important question, when in Safe Mode take a look in Device Manager and make a note of any/all errors, conflicts and multiple entries (especially modems, video or sound cards and their drivers). Might just reveal a potential hardware issue. Mart > William, > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >> (I hope I made it clear enough). >> Thanks. Thank you both for prompt response. I will report on these subjects later today. Answer to Zee's question is, as I recall it, that the bright ME logo screen appears, very briefly, then screen goes blank, black, with flashing 'dash' prompt in upper left corner, and I found no way to get out of that 'hang' mode other than to turn the power off. > Besides Zee's most important question, when in Safe Mode take a look in > Device Manager and make a note of any/all errors, conflicts and multiple [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >>> (I hope I made it clear enough). >>> Thanks. William, Have you tried using System Restore in Safe Mode to go back to a date just before the problem started? Start > Programs > Accessories > System Tools > System Restore. See if that works for you. Zee > Thank you both for prompt response. I will report on > these subjects later today. Answer to Zee's question is, as I recall [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] >>>> (I hope I made it clear enough). >>>> Thanks. Zee, don't forget, this HDD is NOT the original for this PC, it was set-up on a different PC so much of the hardware (and Registry) will be different and therefore SR will not help. Mart > William, > [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] >>>>> (I hope I made it clear enough). >>>>> Thanks. > Zee, don't forget, this HDD is NOT the original for this PC, it was set-up > on a different PC so much of the hardware (and Registry) will be different > and therefore SR will not help. > > Mart You're right, SR can't help at all, I was on a different wave length. Wondering if the OP installed the drivers for the new motherboard...? Zee Sorry.....I do no System Restore points. In the ME days, I used to make clones for backup but I don't have those any more. > William, > [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] >>>>> (I hope I made it clear enough). >>>>> Thanks. > Sorry.....I do no System Restore points. In the ME > days, I used to make clones for backup but I don't > have those any more. It wouldn't have worked anyway, it was an incorrect suggestion. Zee Okay, Mart, I went thar and looked again. In Device Manager, there are *no* Exclamation Points or errors, but down in "Other Devices" there are 3 yellow question marks....one at PCI Multimedia Device. and one each at USB device. I did full system scandisk including surface check, with no errors found. What's your next advice? Shall I try to remove the devices with the yellow question marks? > Besides Zee's most important question, when in Safe Mode take a look in > Device Manager and make a note of any/all errors, conflicts and multiple [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >>> (I hope I made it clear enough). >>> Thanks. William asked :- > What's your next advice? Shall I try to remove the devices > with the yellow question marks? Yes, the fact that the HDD is not in its 'native' environment would mean that any hardware (previously) detected and installed will have the drivers etc., setup for the original PC on the HDD. The 'new' PC may have *similar* devices, but not exactly the same so those original drivers are probably unsuitable, but perhaps not sufficiently so for the newly run PC to want to install fresh drivers. The clue is probably the "PCI Multimedia Device" - possibly a sound card. However, the 'solution' as you already suggested, is to 'Remove' ALL the items you listed in Device Manager (using Dev.Man) - which you must do in Safe Mode. Then re-boot and let WinMe re-detect and install NEW drivers (You might be called on to supply the appropriate drivers as WinMe (re-)detects the 'new' hardware, so you might need any driver disks/CD's supplied with the 'new' PC) Hopefully, that will get you past the "flashing 'dash' prompt" you mentioned in your reply to Zee and good luck. Mart > Okay, Mart, I went thar and looked again. In Device Manager, > there are *no* Exclamation Points or errors, but down in [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] >>>> (I hope I made it clear enough). >>>> Thanks. Okay, fellers.... I'll remove the "?" devices in Safe Mode and reboot, and see if it finds enough to proceed to Normal Mode. And thanx. > William asked :- > [quoted text clipped - 56 lines] >>>>> (I hope I made it clear enough). >>>>> Thanks. If that doesn't work you might want to try also removing the video controller in Safe Mode which might manage to get you to normal mode albeit in VGA mode until you install the correct driver for the card in the new box. If that also fails then remove ALL device in the Device Manger whilst in Safe Mode and then try booting to Normal Mode. This should then allow all of the new hardware to be (re)detected and the appropriate drivers to be installed.  SignatureMike Maltby mike.maltby@gmail.com > Okay, fellers.... I'll remove the "?" devices > in Safe Mode and reboot, and see if it finds > enough to proceed to Normal Mode. And thanx. > If that doesn't work you might want to try also removing the video > controller in Safe Mode which might manage to get you to normal mode [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > all of the new hardware to be (re)detected and the appropriate drivers > to be installed. To Mart and Mike M.: I did the first phase. It acted exactly the same, hung at the '-' prompt. I am considering what Mike recommends above, but I hesitate, because if I remove *all* devices, will it necessarily then install new drivers on boot-up? Could I not possibly be in a condition where it won't even boot to Safe Mode? And when you say "ALL devices".....that's quite a list; but you want me to remove everything that appears on the list, correct? William, Mike's advice is perfectly valid, (thanks Mike) especially now as its still hanging at the '-' prompt. I realised that I also should have suggested that you 'Remove' ALL devices under these circumstances - but only *after* I'd pressed the Send button <g> As Mike has alluded, WinMe will (re)detect ALL hardware and (subject to specialised non-MS drivers) set up as if it were a fresh installation. WinMe will install generic drivers if it can't find manufacturers drivers, but should at least get you up and running. Mart >> If that doesn't work you might want to try also removing the video >> controller in Safe Mode which might manage to get you to normal mode [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > And when you say "ALL devices".....that's quite a list; but you want me > to remove everything that appears on the list, correct? Fine, Mart. Just confirm for me that you want me to remove *all* the stuff in that list of devices, reboot in *Normal* mode? > William, Mike's advice is perfectly valid, (thanks Mike) especially now as > its still hanging at the '-' prompt. I realised that I also should have [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] >> And when you say "ALL devices".....that's quite a list; but you want me >> to remove everything that appears on the list, correct? > Fine, Mart. Just confirm for me that you want me to remove *all* > the stuff in that list of devices, reboot in *Normal* mode? Yes, remove _everything_. The one driver that you can't really change in this way is ACPI power management which if present but not supported by the bios on the new motherboard may require a clean install of Win Me to correct. Removing all the devices in the device manager and rebooting will put the system back to the state it would be, driver wise, following a clean install of the operating system. Once you have the system in this state you will need to install the various drivers required for your hardware starting with the chipset drivers for your new motherboard. SignatureMike Maltby mike.maltby@gmail.com PS. if you've not already found out by now - your mouse will probably cease to function when you 'Remove' it, so you'll have to navigate via the cursor (and Tab) keys to continue - until you reboot and re-detect it. Mart >> Fine, Mart. Just confirm for me that you want me to remove *all* >> the stuff in that list of devices, reboot in *Normal* mode? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > you will need to install the various drivers required for your hardware > starting with the chipset drivers for your new motherboard. >> Fine, Mart. Just confirm for me that you want me to remove *all* >> the stuff in that list of devices, reboot in *Normal* mode? [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > you will need to install the various drivers required for your hardware > starting with the chipset drivers for your new motherboard. Hmmmmm. ACPI doesn't scare me; the new system has it. But I thought everything would install itself when I reboot in Normal Mode. If it's going to prompt me, and ask if it should go looking for them, that I can live with. But if it just sits there not working, I'll be worse off than I am now. Now I'm scared again. > ... But if it just sits there not working, I'll be worse > off than I am now. Now I'm scared again. No, not really William, you won't be any worse than you are now - you'll still be able to boot into Safe Mode. Don't forget that these drivers are required for Normal Mode only. However, you mentioned:- "Other Devices" there are 3 yellow question marks....one at PCI Multimedia Device. and one each at USB device. Have any of these re-appeared (in Safe Mode) since you removed them before? If so, this device (a USB adapter of some sort?) would appear to be where the conflict is (driver issues) and should be electrically disconnected until you are able either determine what it is or find the appropriate drivers for it. Mart >>> Fine, Mart. Just confirm for me that you want me to remove *all* >>> the stuff in that list of devices, reboot in *Normal* mode? [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > can live with. But if it just sits there not working, I'll be worse > off than I am now. Now I'm scared again. At the risk of repeating myself. When you reboot your system following removal of all the devices in the Device Manager the system will be in the same state it would be, driver wise, that it would be following a clean install of the operating system from a Win Me CD. At this point what you then have to do is no different from what you would do following a clean install of Win Me. Note that removing all entries in Dev.Man is standard procedure whenever a system disk is moved to new hardware regardless of the operating system in use. In this respect Win Me is no different from either Win 98, W2K or XP. SignatureMike Maltby mike.maltby@gmail.com > Hmmmmm. ACPI doesn't scare me; the new system has it. But I thought > everything would install itself when I reboot in Normal Mode. If it's > going to prompt me, and ask if it should go looking for them, that I > can live with. But if it just sits there not working, I'll be worse > off than I am now. Now I'm scared again. >That's the best I can describe it. >I have a hard drive from my old PC [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >(I hope I made it clear enough). >Thanks. If you have an installation CD for the Windows Me then the best way to resolve these issues is to boot with that CD and do a "Repair Install" of Windows Me. These instructions are for Windows XP but the procedure for Vista is pretty well the same. http://michaelstevenstech.com/XPrepairinstall.html Good luck Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada SignatureMicrosoft MVP (1997 - 2008) On-Line Help Computer Service http://onlinehelp.bc.ca "Anyone who thinks that they are too small to make a difference has never been in bed with a mosquito." Ron, Reinstalling Win Me over itself is a somewhat dangerous route to take if either Internet Explorer 6 or Windows Media Player 9 have been installed. In both cases it is essential to first take action so as to prevent major subsequent player/browser problems. Incidentally the user is talking here of Windows Millennium and not of either Vista or XP. SignatureMike Maltby mike.maltby@gmail.com > If you have an installation CD for the Windows Me then the best way to > resolve these issues is to boot with that CD and do a "Repair Install" [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Good luck > Ron, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > Incidentally the user is talking here of Windows Millennium and not of > either Vista or XP. Mike, there is no I.E. on the drive, and no Media Player 9. Does that make the reinstall more practical? William (Bill?), we are not suggesting for a moment that you re-install WinMe - in fact quite the opposite! All that is being advised, is that you let the copy of WinMe previously installed on the (replacement) HDD re-detect the (different and new) hardware connected to the 'new' computer - i.e. connected in its new environment. To do that effectively, you need to clear out (or 'Remove') the previous plug'n'play hardware settings which were applicable to the original PC in which the HDD was first installed. Which as Mike explained earlier "is standard procedure whenever a system disk is moved to new hardware regardless of the operating system" It really is no big deal. Mart >> Ron, >> [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Mike, there is no I.E. on the drive, and no Media Player 9. Does > that make the reinstall more practical? Gotcha! Then you feel that I don't need instruction(KB) for Repair Install....just clear out all old hardware settings in Safe Mode and try to reboot to Normal Mode.....not even use my CD? Bill Lurie indeed. > William (Bill?), we are not suggesting for a moment that you re-install > WinMe - in fact quite the opposite! [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >> Mike, there is no I.E. on the drive, and no Media Player 9. Does >> that make the reinstall more practical? Correct Bill, although it *may* want you to navigate to the WinMe CD or more likely the Windows\Options\Install folder, if WinMe detects that it needs a specific driver during the hardware enumeration (evaluation) stage. As Mike and I have already pointed out, you do not need to over-install WinMe - YET. That's a very last resort fraught with pitfalls - version soup! And a fresh (clean) rather than an over-install would be my recommendation. However, that's a long way off. Remember, your 'old' HDD is now in a completely new environment. It therefore needs to forget the 'old' PC hardware settings ("Removal of all the devices in the Device Manager" in Safe Mode is the correct method of ensuring this) and determine (and adjust itself to) the new hardware incorporated in the 'new' PC by rebooting into Normal Mode. Most items will (re)install themselves quite happily, but certain items *may* need special software (drivers) to make them work correctly - drivers which will have been installed on the original HDD of the *new* PC before you replaced it with the HDD under discussion. These drivers now need to be installed on the 'old' HDD. All previously installed programs (including IE or MPxxx) will still be installed on the 'old' HDD and should not need any *special* updates or modifications - subject to any hardware issues. The stall at the "flashing 'dash' prompt" is simply caused by WinMe attempting to enumerate some piece of hardware which it doesn't recognise. It's got itself confused and has decided to hang until YOU do something about it. You need to determine (by a process of elimination) what item is causing the stall (and the "PCI Multimedia Device" with USB facilities? is the prime suspect) and temporarily physically disconnect or remove it. Repeat the Normal Mode boot process and hope that it can continue without hanging. Worry about the offending item of hardware later! Mart > Gotcha! Then you feel that I don't need instruction(KB) for Repair > Install....just clear out all old hardware settings in Safe Mode [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >>> Mike, there is no I.E. on the drive, and no Media Player 9. Does >>> that make the reinstall more practical? Well, Mart, I got bold and (laboriously) opened all of the condensed categories and removed all that it would allow me to. There were four under Primary and Secondary IDE Disk Controllers that it wouldn't let me remove, no matter what I tried, so I just proceeded from there. I'm a little confused as to what exactly I did next, but I believe it allowed me to Restart, F8 to Normal Mode, at least once. I then used Add/Remove to get rid of old programs, and obsolete printers, and I finally got myself to a cleaner system.........only now I hang at the dash prompt again. But now I'm not scared any more, and I'm going to unplug the USB (new) printer and web camera, and go back and remove all devices again. Maybe I'll get to where it will boot Normal again. Incidentally, at one point it asked for the CD for installing something I don't need (I forget what) and I didn't bother with it. Thanks for giving me good advice...and courage. BTW...this is a long thread; should I start a new one? > Correct Bill, although it *may* want you to navigate to the WinMe CD or more > likely the Windows\Options\Install folder, if WinMe detects that it needs a [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] >>>> Mike, there is no I.E. on the drive, and no Media Player 9. Does >>>> that make the reinstall more practical? Bill asked :- > BTW...this is a long thread; should I start a new one? No! - continue with this one. But you may wish to snip some of it - see below. In the meantime :- USB Camera, Printer, etc., etc., Ah! - there's your likely conflicts! especially if they are still connected. You MUST disconnect them at this stage and re-install them later according to the device manufacturers instructions. Again, are the USB ports associated the "PCI Multimedia Device" ? If so, you'll have to pull that card (assuming its a card) and install it later according to the manufacturers instructions. As with all USB devices, not all 'simply plug'n'play' first time. Some often need to be 'conditioned' as per the user handbook before they can start to be 'hot swapped'. And if its a PCI to USB adapter card, you certainly will need to read the installation instructions and install the accompanying drivers. BTW - there's no specific need at this stage to remove programs, but removing printers etc. will need to be done in due course. But you must try to start with minimal hardware connected and connect one item at a time to see if you hit any obstacles. > Thanks for giving me good advice...and courage. I'm sure that on behalf of others who have also contributed, you're most welcome. You'll get there!! Mart > Well, Mart, I got bold and (laboriously) opened all of > the condensed categories and removed all that it would allow [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > Thanks for giving me good advice...and courage. > BTW...this is a long thread; should I start a new one? <snipped> > there is no I.E. on the drive, By the way Internet Explorer is present on the system as it is a component part of Win Me. I assume therefore you mean that it has never been updated to IE6, something I feel you should do as a matter of urgency once you have recovered your system. SignatureMike Maltby mike.maltby@gmail.com > Mike, there is no I.E. on the drive, and no Media Player 9. Does > that make the reinstall more practical? I would most strongly concur with you Mike, overinstalling WinMe on itself after undertaking (most of, if not) all of the WinMe Updates is a disaster waiting to happen - BTDT. Or "Version Soup" - as Noel Paton so eloquently described it. But in the case of this particular thread, as you rightly pointed out earlier "Note that removing all entries in Dev.Man is standard procedure whenever a system disk is moved to new hardware regardless of the operating system in use. In this respect Win Me is no different from either Win 98, W2K or XP." And - It looks like we've reverted to the intermittent phantom "1 message not downloaded" phenomenon on this News Group which I've not seen for some time <g> Was it this same NG we saw it happening last time? Mart > Ron, > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] >> >> Good luck > And - It looks like we've reverted to the intermittent phantom Mart, I'm finding the NGs a bit slow sometimes taking an age to download the headers. As for phantoms, I'm seeing an intermittent one in Win Me Printing that's been around now for two or three weeks but am not seeing one in this NG. A problem that is Microsoft's fault as they have not implemented the RFC correctly in Outlook Express since they take the article count as 100% correct between the high and low water marks on the server whereas the RFC states that this should be taken as an approx count only. One known cause of a problem can be a cancelled message which no longer exists but had a message number allocated. Other news readers such as Forte Agent don't have this problem. Not that I like Agent although I gather it is better now than it used to be. SignatureMike Maltby mike.maltby@gmail.com > I would most strongly concur with you Mike, overinstalling WinMe on > itself after undertaking (most of, if not) all of the WinMe Updates [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > seen for some time <g> Was it this same NG we saw it happening last > time? Hi Mike, Thanks for the update. The NG seems to have behaved itself so far today - but then it's early <g> In the meantime, I'm away for the rest of the day/evening so I'm sure you'll guide and oversee Bill on the next part of his quest <g> Mart >> And - It looks like we've reverted to the intermittent phantom > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Other news readers such as Forte Agent don't have this problem. Not that > I like Agent although I gather it is better now than it used to be. <snipped> Thanks, Ron. The CD that I have is what I used years ago, an "upgrade" from 98 to M.E. And there's no XP or Vista involved here. >> That's the best I can describe it. >> I have a hard drive from my old PC [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada Latest progress: I've gone around 3 times now, and each time I remove more. I have not yet pulled the USB connectors for webcam, and of course I can't pull the monitor USB plug. On next pass I'll pull the webcam (it isn't easy to identify and get at). And also the Ethernet connection, which I do not intend to use with this ME system. But for now, maybe you'd care to advise about the self- installation of 5 files that it can't find, and I can't supply. It wants to install hidclass.sys hidpause.sys hidvkc.sys mouse.drv msmon.vxd from C:\windows\options\cabs and it doesn't find them, and I can't supply them because, even when I manage to boot to Safe Mode, it doesn't see my CD drive, so I can't lead it to the CD. That in itself requires some advice....... Over to you, Mike...... > Thanks, Ron. The CD that I have is what I used years ago, an "upgrade" > from 98 to M.E. And there's no XP or Vista involved here. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >> >> Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada Until you remove everything from Dev.Man. then I'm sorry but you are wasting both your and our time. You should also have NOTHING whatsoever connected to the box other than keyboard and mouse whilst trying to get the old hard disk up and running, least of all any external usb devices. All the more so if these various devices were not connected to the system whose hard disk you are now using. > Over to you, Mike...... I'm sorry but not really much point until you follow the earlier advice but I'll try. If you are being asked for files that are part of the basic Win Me operating system such as those you mention either insert your Win Me CD or, perhaps better, ensure that the registry is correctly pointing to the location where these files are stored on your hard disk which will be usually be either C:\Windows\Options\Install or C:\Windows\Options\Cabs, which depending on the original media used to install the system, Microsoft media uses the ..\Install folder whilst OEM media normally uses the ..\Cabs folder. Note however that some OEM manufacturers, for reasons unknown, chose to place the Win Me cab set in different locations, sometimes even on a different partition (nothing wrong with that) but then failed to enter the correct location in the registry which was a cardinal sin and the cause of many problems. You can check this by booting to Safe Mode, I'm assuming you can still get to Safe Mode OK, and then running regedit. (start | Run enter regedit and then click OK and in the left hand pane browse to the key (clicking the + sign to open branches) HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Setup and then in the right hand pane looking for the value "SourcePath". This should point at the folder containing the Win Me cab files. If it does not, in the right hand pane double click "SourcePath" and edit the contents of the Value data box to point to the correct folder. When you have done this Win Me will be able to, correctly, automatically retrieve any files that it requires without further user intervention unless the files concerned are for a third party device. In such cases you should download and use the Win Me drivers from the manufacturer's web site but don't do that until Win Me itself is properly up and running. Best of luck. SignatureMike Maltby mike.maltby@gmail.com > Latest progress: I've gone around 3 times now, and > each time I remove more. I have not yet pulled [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Over to you, Mike...... Mike, I realize that I am trying your patience, but I am trying to follow instructions, which sometimes lead to places on CDs or in C: that I am not able to reach. As of now, I am unable to remove 4 IDE drive controllers from the Dev. Manager. I would gladly do so, but in none of the dozen go-around have I been able to. So, ipso facto, by your statement, I am wasting your time and mine. As of my last attempt (before booting back to my main system) I removed all connections other than power, monitor, keyboard and mouse. Even the Ethernet connection I removed. Now regarding the files in C:\.....cab, at the time it's requesting them, C: is the ME system, and the Browse button gives no other option. My CD drive is not shown as an option, so until we 'reinstall' that drive, I can't read from it. I note that in installing all the drivers, it installed one for the CD in Device Manager, but the drive is not shown in Explorer as being there. I can go to Registry comfortably, but as for ancestry of the ME system, I installed it myself years ago, as an upgrade to the Win 98, which was OEM installed and I have the CD from which that installation was made. I will read your further instructions as to what to do in Registry, in more detail. I don't mind going there, but I have to understand what to change once I'm there. So I *am* complying with instructions as well as I am able. By the way, after everything that can install, IS installed in Safe Mode, it tells me to Restart, and I click to restart, and it always hangs there, in MSGRV52(Not Responding), and I have to Ctrl-Alt-Del to kill it in the Task Manager list. Just another thorn in my side while I crawl along. > Until you remove everything from Dev.Man. then I'm sorry but you are > wasting both your and our time. You should also have NOTHING whatsoever [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > Best of luck. And now, Mike, a short while later, I return from having examined Registry. What is there, is exactly what it says as the location of the files it needs. Then, according to what you told me, it will find them unless the files concerned are for a third party device. So that's my next obstacle. Is my next step, then, to contact HP, the manufacturer of this new machine, and ask him how I can download a CAB by that name, which is for this application in this machine? If so, I'm sure it would be a dead end. > Mike, I realize that I am trying your patience, but I am > trying to follow instructions, which sometimes lead to places [quoted text clipped - 76 lines] >> >> Best of luck. You've lost me now. You should need nothing from HP to get Win Me up and running. When you have done that, and NOT before, you can start adding in third party drivers such as that for your motherboard chipset. If you are saying the motherboard is from HP then you should hopefully be able to obtain all the drivers you need from the HP web site. Incidentally, drivers are most unlikely to be provided as a cab file. In most cases these will be in the form of an exe or zip file which when run creates a folder to which you then point the properties sheet for the device in question so as to add the driver or, as can also be the case, an exe file that when run installs the driver plus quite often other third party utilities - this latter often being the method used by HP to install their printers. The one problem I now realise is that HP may well have removed all Win me drivers from their web site including those for your PC. Win Me is long out of support and I know that HP removed virtually all Win Me drivers for their printers a couple of years ago. I hate to say this but just as one needs to learn to walk before one can run the same is true of getting your PC up and running with the transferred hard drive. Get Win Me running and taking you to the desktop in Normal Mode and then and ONLY then think about installing manufacturer's drivers for your hardware. SignatureMike Maltby mike.maltby@gmail.com > And now, Mike, a short while later, I return from having > examined Registry. What is there, is exactly what it [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > that name, which is for this application in this machine? > If so, I'm sure it would be a dead end. > As of now, I am unable to remove 4 IDE drive controllers > from the Dev. Manager. Don't worry leave these. > I will read your further instructions as to what to do in > Registry, in more detail. I don't mind going there, but I have > to understand what to change once I'm there. My earlier post went into precise detail. I have nothing to add. > gives no other option. My CD drive is not shown as an option, > so until we 'reinstall' that drive, If you are looking Safe Mode then this is perfectly normal. This being one of the reasons it's called Safe Mode. > in Safe Mode, it tells me to Restart, and I click to restart, > and it always hangs there, in MSGRV52(Not Responding), Oh dear, you have some hardware that is hanging Dev.Man on the reboot. (BTW msgsrv32 not 52). Msgsrv32 is waiting for a reply from some none functioning component. Msgsrv32 is simply the messenger, the problem nearly always lies elsewhere and that's your hardware which is why it is ESSENTIAL to have NOTHING connected other than the bare minimum (which has been said before). Strip the box back so that al that is connected to the motherboard is your hard drive, video card (possibly built-in), keyboard and mouse. Then try again. Once you have Win Me booting in Normal Mode to the desktop you can start adding back bits. See MS KB Q138708 - "Function of the Windows 32-Bit Message Server" (http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=138708). SignatureMike Maltby mike.maltby@gmail.com > Mike, I realize that I am trying your patience, but I am > trying to follow instructions, which sometimes lead to places [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > have to Ctrl-Alt-Del to kill it in the Task Manager list. Just > another thorn in my side while I crawl along. >> As of now, I am unable to remove 4 IDE drive controllers >> from the Dev. Manager. [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > See MS KB Q138708 - "Function of the Windows 32-Bit Message Server" > (http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=138708). Mike, you've been very patient and logical and specific. I had it stripped so that there was nothing I added to the OEM machine, and nothing was connected other than the bare-bones essentials... KB, Mouse, monitor, and whatever video card HP supplied inside the enclosure, which obviously I cannot remove. As I said, I followed your instructions, and Registry points to the right file....on the C-drive....and presumably it's been there since 1998 except that it must be there in name only, empty, or corrupted. I just cannot boot to Normal Mode. I'm going to try an entirely different approach. I have another drive which I will try to wipe clean and install Win 98 on, and then upgrade to ME. Maybe that will boot to Normal Mode, and whether it does or not, it may shed light on this set of happenings. Have a good day, and I fear that you'll be hearing from me again. Bill, let's just recap. You say, that you've stripped all external hardware down to the essential minimum (keyboard, mouse and monitor) - and cleared as much as you can in Dev.Man to all that it won't allow you to remove (IDE drive controllers etc.) in Safe Mode. Now as understand it, WinMe hangs again during the next Normal Mode startup. OK. Now have another look in Dev.Man (in Safe Mode again, as it's the only way in) and like before, report any/all errors, conflicts and multiple entries. It's remains an iterative process until you identify and 'Remove' the offending hardware. Now what really bothers me is that you mentioned " I have not yet pulled the USB connectors for webcam, and of course I can't pull the monitor USB plug." Well, pull the webcam of course - BUT USB Monitor?? What's all this about? USB is not VGA. Hmm.. Maybe I'm missing something here. I don't know anything about USB monitors, but I'm pretty certain that you'd need a special driver package to get that to work in WinMe in Normal Mode. In fact I didn't even know there was (seemingly) a generic USB driver for Safe Mode I was never aware of any USB video drivers included in the WinMe package. Anything come with the monitor? What does Dev.Man say regarding Display Adaptors and/or Monitors? However, you did start the original thread with the Subject "New PC, ME with old BIOS" which I couldn't really make sense of <g> I can only therefore conclude that the motherboard supports USB video. Are you sure that it is WinMe compatible? What was the original OS on this new PC? And - if you want to answer - why did you remove the original HDD? Mart >>> As of now, I am unable to remove 4 IDE drive controllers >>> from the Dev. Manager. [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > light on this set of happenings. Have a good day, and I > fear that you'll be hearing from me again. Mart, thanks for coming back in. First let me jump down to the USB question. That was a memory slip; the monitor is on its own big multi-connector cable. I've graduated to where my latest attempts have been with *NO* USB cables connected. Consider it as having only the essential cabling; I even unplugged the Ethernet connector. In Safe Mode, there are no errors and no conflicts. There are 4 entries for IDE controllers which I am unable to delete, and Mike says not to fret. I didn't answer your query about display adapters and monitors because I think it was prompted by my incorrect association of USB with the monitor. The new PC came with one HDD, containing XP/Home in one partition, and HP's own maintenance and repair software in its "D" partition. I have never removed either of those partitions (nor would I). The way I run or attempt to run WinME is to interrupt the boot process and boot to the Slave drive (which is left over from my erstwhile PC). If you read Mike's posts, you'll see that, in shutting down ME, now, I always get an error window about MSGSRV32 where it hangs. And in attempting to boot it always complains about 5 files that it can't find, that should be in C:\Windows\Options\CABS. Mike had me check Registry to verify that that is where it's directed, and I verified that. I'm pretty well convinced that HP has somehow made it impossible to use the OS on the old HDD even though it boots every time in Safe Mode. I'm about to consider taking another HDD and install Win98 clean on it, from Microsoft's own installation CD, and then upgrade it to ME with my ME-upgrade CD. I can copy back from the questionable HDD those files that I have on it. I don't like giving up on what you and Mike and I have spent so much time on, but maybe it *is* time to move on to "Plan B". > Bill, let's just recap. > [quoted text clipped - 79 lines] >> light on this set of happenings. Have a good day, and I >> fear that you'll be hearing from me again. First of all, note Mikes reply (timed at 12:32 BST today) regarding the much simpler method of a clean install of WinMe - should you need to go down that route. But I don't think we've completely exhausted 'Plan A' - YET!! So I'll address the next items in-line :- > Mart, thanks for coming back in. > First let me jump down to the USB question. > That was a memory slip; the monitor is on its > own big multi-connector cable. Phew! - thank goodness for that <g> > I've graduated to > where my latest attempts have been with *NO* USB > cables connected. Consider it as having only the > essential cabling; I even unplugged the Ethernet > connector. Indeed, ALL items *MUST* be disconnected. > In Safe Mode, there are no errors and no conflicts. > There are 4 entries for IDE controllers which I am > unable to delete, and Mike says not to fret. > Mike's quite correct and on hindsight, perhaps we should have warned you > earlier. > I > didn't answer your query about display adapters > and monitors because I think it was prompted by my > incorrect association of USB with the monitor. Fair enough. > The new PC came with one HDD, containing XP/Home in > one partition, and HP's own maintenance and repair [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > process and boot to the Slave drive (which is left > over from my erstwhile PC). OK, thanks for that info. For now - assuming it has been physically removed and your WinMe HDD is the only one fitted, it won't be causing any issues. > If you read Mike's posts, you'll see that, in shutting > down ME, now, I always get an error window about MSGSRV32 > where it hangs. OK, for the moment, that's to be expected and probably not too relevant. > And in attempting to boot it always > complains about 5 files that it can't find, that should > be in C:\Windows\Options\CABS. Exactly what files can't it find? Please list all five. > Mike had me check Registry to > verify that that is where it's directed, and I verified > that. It's not the Registry but rather the 'Path' which we are considering here. You need to search (in Safe Mode) for " *.CABS " and (hopefully) find a Folder containing about 20 or so .CAB files (e.g. WIN_15.CAB). Assuming those files can be found, we are (or should be) still in business. However, if you can't find them, then you are up the creek .. as Mike explained earlier and it is definately over to 'Plan B' (but do remember Mikes tip, no need to install 98) > I'm pretty well convinced that HP has somehow made it > impossible to use the OS on the old HDD even though it [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > much time on, but maybe it *is* time to move on to > "Plan B". See my previous paragraph. Mart <snipped> Hi Bill, With further reference to your 5 missing files (which I'd only just spotted - sorry!), I've just been in contact with Mike and concluded that :- depending on how you set-up your original WinMe on the 'old' HDD (can't remember if you said you [over] installed it [a MS or OEM version?] onto an existing OEM [HP?] version of Win98) then the Folder (CABS or Install) MAY NOT EXIST - or be in a completely different location! From a very recent Clean installation I've just done of (MS not OEM) WinMe, where the installation files were copied to the HDD before actually installing WinMe from the HDD itself (The CD-ROM was 'faulty') I have found that WinMe doesn't copy the complete set of installation files to the CABS or Install folder at all, as it would if was installed from the CD. Always said that you learn something new every day on these WinMe NG's!! Is your WinMe CD an MS or OEM version? I take it your 98 CD is OEM. If WinMe CD is MS, and your 98 is a 'special' (compressed) OEM version, then WinMe might not accept the OEM CD as a proof of authenticity and therefore you may have to go down the Plan B (version A) route, i.e. fresh install 98 then attempt the WinMe update. Far too many variables keep creeping in to this 'simple issue' <g> Mart > First of all, note Mikes reply (timed at 12:32 BST today) regarding the > much simpler method of a clean install of WinMe - should you need to go [quoted text clipped - 86 lines] > > <snipped> Mart (and Mike): You fellows have gone far beyond the call of duty and I appreciate it and don't want to impose too much farther. Let me be specific: My 98 CD came to me with a PC which was custom made by an 'authorized' assembler of some sort. It's a genuine Microsoft CD and on it is the legend "For distribution with a new PC only", which it was. My ME upgrade CD was given to me by some computer shop some 8-odd years ago, and is obviously a copy, not an original. However, I have not too long ago installed 98 in a VPC under my XP main system, and it accepts the codes. I didn't go on to ME, however. In the past, when I tried to install ME direct from the CD, it told me at the start that it could only be used to upgrade a 98 system. The scientist in me says "Keep on plugging away, find the missing .CAB and files, and make it work". The practical engineer in me says "You've spent too many man-hours, your own and other people's, when you have what is most likely a viable Plan B." I intend to have my guru with the nimble fingers disconnect the main HDD in my PC (because I want to install 98+ME in a safe manner) and unless you two think I'm too much of a coward, I intend to start with a "clean" 98+ME and will see if it takes. > Hi Bill, > [quoted text clipped - 104 lines] >> >> <snipped> <snipped for brevity> Bill wrote :- > I intend to start with a "clean" 98+ME and will see if it takes. Under the present circumstances, probably the best - certainly the quickest - option. If (hopefully) successful, don't forget to do the WinMe updates as soon as you are able (internet connection required) otherwise SR won't work. Further, as you intend to do this on yet another HDD, you can always re-visit the 'old' disk at your convenience. Good luck and keep us posted. Mart > Mart (and Mike): > You fellows have gone far beyond the call of duty and [quoted text clipped - 134 lines] >>> >>> <snipped> > Mart (and Mike): > You fellows have gone far beyond the call of duty and [quoted text clipped - 135 lines] >>> >>> <snipped> Okay, Mike and Mart, I asked about the SATA connectors, spread the cabling to get my arthritic fingers in there, pulled the main HDD power connector, connected the Slave, and started to install 98 from CD. I then had only the blank 7.5 GB drive powered up. It first formatted the 7.5 GB drive, and proceeded to load the files, everything looked good, and it got to 21 minutes to go, and it said it had to restart. Okay, I expected that, and I expected the prompt about "Hard Disk or CD" and from experience, I knew that if I said CD Rom, it would go back to load all the files again. So I selected Boot from Hard Disk, and it clunked and mumbled and came up with "Sorry, you don't have enough memory" (I think), "Go back and take some stuff out of your autoexec". Sorry to bother you with such an elementary question, but I have 1.5 GB of RAM and this "new" HDD is 7.5GB, has *nothing* on it, and........ how do I get out of this CATCH-22? Your problem is 1.5GB of RAM. In truth no Win 9x operating system is suited to your system since I now see you mention that it has sata drives for which you will have to try and find Win Me compatible drivers or rather Win 9x compatible chipset drivers for your motherboard. Turning to your RAM, the error message you mention is to be expected. Win Me, like all Win 9x operating systems, can support and use up to 2GB of memory although there are a number of caveats and exceptions to that details of which are contained in the following Microsoft Knowledge Base articles with the first essential reading where more than 512MB of memory is installed. For more details see: MS KB 253912 - ""Out of Memory" Error Messages with Large Amounts of RAM Installed" (http://support.microsoft.com?kbid=253912). The reason is that allocating more than 512MB of RAM to vcache will exhaust all available upper memory addresses and thus prevent them being used for other purposes. This problem is easily fixed as follows: To limit vcache, open system.ini and add the lines [VCache] MaxFileCache=512000 Note that this will still mean that all memory is available to applications but is simply limiting the amount used as virtual cache memory. MS KB 296773 - "Computer May Not Hibernate with More Than 192 MB of Memory" (http://support.microsoft.com?kbid=296773). This makes reference to an updated file vmm.vxd. Unfortunately due to Win Me being out of support this file can no longer be obtained from Microsoft. MS KB 304943 - "Computer May Reboot Continuously with More Than 1.5 GB of RAM" (http://support.microsoft.com?kbid=304943). SignatureMike Maltby mike.maltby@gmail.com > Okay, Mike and Mart, I asked about the SATA connectors, spread > the cabling to get my arthritic fingers in there, pulled the [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > GB of RAM and this "new" HDD is 7.5GB, has *nothing* on it, > and........ how do I get out of this CATCH-22? D**n - Must remember to check for updates before pressing the Send button! You weren't there when I looked Mike <g> Mart > Your problem is 1.5GB of RAM. > [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] >> GB of RAM and this "new" HDD is 7.5GB, has *nothing* on it, >> and........ how do I get out of this CATCH-22? Thank you, Mike. First of all, would simply pulling the 1GB RAM strip, leaving it with 512K, solve the problem? Second, I have to relate that I created a VPC on this machine, and in it I installed Win98 from this identical CD, with no problem. Third, the circumstance which we are discussing rules out any SATA interference as such, since I boot to the 7.5GB EIDE HDD when it is alone on the system. However, you do make a point about 98-compatible drivers or chipsets on the motherboard, but then I refer you to the preceding paragraph, in which I say that the 98 loaded into the VPC on that Master SATA Drive. With that, I look forward to your further clarification. > Your problem is 1.5GB of RAM. > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > MS KB 304943 - "Computer May Reboot Continuously with More Than 1.5 GB of > RAM" (http://support.microsoft.com?kbid=304943). Well, M&M, after reading your advice and reporting the news, I reduced RAM to 512MB and started again, and, mirabile dictu, it started up, asked for the 25 digits, and went almost all the way through the 98 install to 2 minutes to go. And then it did a routine restart, and when it resumed, I got a DOS screen with the message ; "While initiating NDIS, encountered Windows Protection Error. Restart" So I restarted, and it booted past the big 98 Logo screen, and stopped with the same message. Looks like we're almost there.......But now what? > Thank you, Mike. First of all, would simply pulling the 1GB RAM strip, > leaving it with 512K, solve the problem? [quoted text clipped - 47 lines] >> MS KB 304943 - "Computer May Reboot Continuously with More Than 1.5 GB of >> RAM" (http://support.microsoft.com?kbid=304943). VPC isn't using your system hardware but is emulating some pretty basic stuff, for example the sound and video adapters emulated are both over ten years old. Pulling a memory strip is a short term solution, preferred is to edit system.ini. > 98 loaded into the VPC on that Master SATA Drive Irrelevant as I have already said. VPC is emulating a hard drive using a file. Look at Dev.Man. when running any OS to confirm what VPC is offering as devices. SignatureMike Maltby mike.maltby@gmail.com > Thank you, Mike. First of all, would simply pulling the 1GB RAM strip, > leaving it with 512K, solve the problem? [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > With that, I look forward to your further clarification. > VPC isn't using your system hardware but is emulating some pretty basic > stuff, for example the sound and video adapters emulated are both over [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > a file. Look at Dev.Man. when running any OS to confirm what VPC is > offering as devices. Okay, Mike, as you saw later, I did the short-term solution. I now have 512MB of RAM and 98 (this HDD alone on the system) installs almost to completion, halting with the error I more or less quoted, "While initializing NDIS, Windows Protection Error. Restart". As for editing system.ini, I assume you mean from msconfig in Safe Mode if I ever get there.....but how and to what? From a DOS prompt when it halts there, perhaps? > Okay, Mike, as you saw later, I did the short-term solution. I now > have 512MB of RAM and 98 (this HDD alone on the system) installs > almost to completion, halting with the error I more or less quoted, > "While initializing NDIS, Windows Protection Error. Restart". Oh dear, this is may be another hardware problem and could be due to the make/model network card you are using or even possibly your cpu speed. May I suggest you come clean and explain EXACTLY what hardware you are using for this system and again may I remind you that most recent hardware is unsuitable for running any Win 9x operating system other than in a virtual machine. For example see MS KB 312108 "Windows protection error in NDIS with a CPU that is faster than 2.1 GHz" (http://support.microsoft.com?kbid=312108) could be applicable or at least explain a possible cause. See also MS KB273738 "How to Troubleshoot Windows Millennium Edition Startup Problems" (http://support.microsoft.com?kbid=273738). > As for editing system.ini, I assume you mean from msconfig in Safe > Mode if I ever get there.....but how and to what? From a DOS prompt > when it halts there, perhaps? Your choice how you do this. What I consider to be the normal way is to boot to DOS using a floppy and edit it from the DOS prompt as this avoids pulling RAM but seeing as you've pulled RAM then you can do this in a number of ways with Windows running and using MSConfig is one of those ways. SignatureMike Maltby mike.maltby@gmail.com Mike, I am pleased to tell you all that I can, the info coming from AIDA. It is Compaq Presario Type 061, Model SR1900NX The CPU is Intel Celeron D, 3.2GHz, significantly faster than 2.1 GHz. Video is ATI Radeon Express 256MB. BIOS is Phoenix 3.03 Supports: DMI, APM, ACPI, PnP So far, I've had too much RAM, and my CPU runs too fast. And I'm trying to run a Model-T engine in a Thunderbird. I'm beginning to get the impression that, even though I came within 2 minutes of completing the 98 installation, I really should just live with the VPC. I tried to go the independent-HDD route because I was having trouble getting peripherals to work under VPC. You did seem to hold out some hope, in asking for 'full disclosure',but maybe I only saw what I wanted to see. You did mention that, since I pulled the excessive RAM, "then you can do this in a number of ways with Windows running and using MSConfig is one of those ways." Uh, but I don't quite have Windows running. Can I just start it up and maybe F8 and boot to Safe Mode? Would that take, and what do I do when I get to system.ini? >> Okay, Mike, as you saw later, I did the short-term solution. I now >> have 512MB of RAM and 98 (this HDD alone on the system) installs [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > in a number of ways with Windows running and using MSConfig is one of > those ways. Further news, Mike....maybe it will surprise you as it did me. I connected the PC up again, with the partially-installed drive as Slave, my main drive as Master, and rebooted, this time asking to to go to the Slave. I started it up and F8 to the 98 HDD and it booted right into 98, Safe Mode. I'm hastening to tell you this, although I expect that you'll have responded to previous posting before you see this. I did verify that I can access msconfig but you haven't told me what to do there. Now I'm curious as to what will happen if I try Normal Mode... > Mike, I am pleased to tell you all that I can, > the info coming from AIDA. [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] >> this in a number of ways with Windows running and using MSConfig is >> one of those ways. So, I tried Normal Mode. Just as I'm sure you expected, I got that same DOS error message about NDIS......want to clue me as to what I should edit in system.ini? > Further news, Mike....maybe it will surprise you as it did me. > I connected the PC up again, with the partially-installed [quoted text clipped - 63 lines] >>> this in a number of ways with Windows running and using MSConfig is >>> one of those ways. > I did verify that I > can access msconfig but you haven't told me what to do there. I explicitly stated the edit that is required to system.ini. Let me try and remind you of what was in my earlier post: <quote> To limit vcache, open system.ini and add the lines [VCache] MaxFileCache=512000 </quote> SignatureMike Maltby mike.maltby@gmail.com > Further news, Mike....maybe it will surprise you as it did me. > I connected the PC up again, with the partially-installed [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > Now I'm curious as to what will happen if I try Normal Mode... Right you are. With all the messages, I had forgotten that. So I went there, and with considerable difficulty I managed to get it to look approximately as you describe. In saving it and restarting, in Normal Mode it still gives the same message and asks for Restart. I'll try to describe how that entry in the system.ini file now looks: [-] [check] (open folder sketch) [VCache] [check] / and in a full rectangle MaxFileCache=512000 Where I show "/" above, it really looks like a tiny yellow pencil. I haven't been able to make it look like just [VCache] with MaxFileCache=512000 directly under it. Did I do it correctly, and it just still isn't solving my problem, or did I not get it right? >> I did verify that I >> can access msconfig but you haven't told me what to do there. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > MaxFileCache=512000 > </quote> >> I did verify that I >> can access msconfig but you haven't told me what to do there. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > MaxFileCache=512000 > </quote> Mike (and Mart): I think I just have to give up this quest. I think you fellows have diagnosed every problem and I've complied with all your corrections and I'm still not there. About the vcache and 512M, I mentioned that I couldn't get the line in system.ini to look proper (in my eyes), and that was the last improvement I installed at your request. The question of clock speed has elicited the following very strong comment from Gary Terhune, who is another of the MVPs who have been trying to guide me in this quest: ------------------------------------------------------- I give up! YOU ALMOST CERTAINLY CANNOT RUN ANY KIND OF WINDOWS 95, 98, 98SE, ME or NT (maybe even 2000) ON THAT MACHINE! I can almost guarantee you that. You need drivers and there are no such things. They've never been written. SignatureGary S. Terhune MS-MVP Shell/User www.grystmill.com --------------------------------------------------------- Win98 does boot and work gracefully in Virtual PC on this machine. There are limitations to overcome if I have no alternative to running it that way, but maybe I'll be able to work around those. If you fellows want to breathe a sigh of relief and drop this Don Quixote-type effort, I'm agreeable, and appreciative of all your efforts over this past several days and nights. But before we go, please tell me, if you can, if there is a clean link to whatever I should install after I have Win98 installed from my original 98 installation CD, in a Virtual PC.....and before I install Windows ME from my upgrade CD.......and what upgrades to Windows ME to install after that. I can't find then on the Microsoft Download Site. It's a shame that you didn't give more details of the new machine from the start as that would have saved a lot of time for all concerned. Use VPC if you want to need to run 9x software which won't run in Win95 or Win98/Me compatibility mode on a modern OS (XP or Vista). If you need usb support, not that that much old software uses usb, then you might need to use VMWare instead of VPC. SignatureMike Maltby MS-MVP Windows mike.maltby@gmail.com > Mike (and Mart): > I think I just have to give up this quest. [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > that. You need drivers and there are no such things. They've never > been written. I think you've pretty well summed it up Mike - the devil is in the detail although I think I did mention WinMe/motherboard incompatibility somewhere in the thread. But once you went delving into VMWare and VPC - then being on XPHome - I effectively wrote myself out of the script. Mart > It's a shame that you didn't give more details of the new machine from the > start as that would have saved a lot of time for all concerned. Use VPC [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] >> that. You need drivers and there are no such things. They've never >> been written. I guess my last question is, after installing Win98 in my VPC, and upgrading to Win ME with my upgrade CD, are there any fixes or improvements for ME, or was it just perfect when released? > I think you've pretty well summed it up Mike - the devil is in the detail > although I think I did mention WinMe/motherboard incompatibility somewhere [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >>> that. You need drivers and there are no such things. They've never >>> been written. > I guess my last question is, after installing Win98 > in my VPC, and upgrading to Win ME with my upgrade > CD, are there any fixes or improvements for ME, or was > it just perfect when released? 290700 is essential for system restore to work and I would personally advise you install all the critical patches that are available for Win Me from the Windows Update site including IE 6 SP1 but whether you move from WMP7 to WMP9 is very much up to you. If you have problems in installing any of these patches or you find that installing one breaks things, for example you are suddenly unable to access Help without encountering an error post back and either Mart or myself will try and help you out. SignatureMike Maltby mike.maltby@gmail.com >> I guess my last question is, after installing Win98 >> in my VPC, and upgrading to Win ME with my upgrade [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > encountering an error post back and either Mart or myself will try and > help you out. Thank you, Mike. I now have my VPC with 98 running and also upgraded to Win ME from my upgrade CD. I'll see if I can find the patches for ME. >>> I guess my last question is, after installing Win98 >>> in my VPC, and upgrading to Win ME with my upgrade [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > also upgraded to Win ME from my upgrade CD. I'll see if I can find the > patches for ME. Mike, already I need help. I went to Microsoft website and first found that I needed to be there via IE, not my usual Mozilla. So I went via IE7 and tried to find the downloads for ME. I kept getting to where it tested my machine to see what I needed but I didn't need to know what's available for my XP but for ME ....and in my VPC (ME) I had no intention of going online. So please tell me, do I HAVE to install and activate Internet software in my VPC ME in order to get the ME Upgrades? Isn't there a way I can download them while online here in XP, save them and install them in ME when I go there? You can only obtain updates from the Windows Update site using the PC to be updated. For the last year or so you can only obtain updates for Win 9x systems from the Windows Update Catalogue site using a Win 9x system. XP and later systems go to a more recent version of the Windows Update Catalogue site that has no Win 9x content. SignatureMike Maltby mike.maltby@gmail.com > Mike, already I need help. I went to Microsoft website and first > found that I needed to be there via IE, not my usual Mozilla. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > there a way I can download them while online here in XP, save > them and install them in ME when I go there? > You can only obtain updates from the Windows Update site using the PC to > be updated. For the last year or so you can only obtain updates for Win > 9x systems from the Windows Update Catalogue site using a Win 9x system. > XP and later systems go to a more recent version of the Windows Update > Catalogue site that has no Win 9x content. Okay, then I'll use the basic system until some time when I might go online with it. The intended use which triggered this exercise is in a self-contained application package. > Okay, then I'll use the basic system until some time > when I might go online with it. The intended use which > triggered this exercise is in a self-contained application > package. What problems do you have when running the package in Win98/Me compatibility mode on XP? SignatureMike Maltby mike.maltby@gmail.com Test for Mart SignatureMike > What problems do you have when running the package in Win98/Me > compatibility mode on XP? > Test for Mart And another. In this case with a severely pruned References header which should allow it to be posted whilst still being correctly threaded. SignatureMike Thanks Mike, <snip> Sorry guys - looks like the sub-thread is too long, it won't let me add a further reply to your message Mike. FWIW - I've started new sub thread which was only to say :- > example you are suddenly unable to access Help without encountering an > error post back and either Mart or myself will try and help you out. Only as far as I am able Mike, don't forget I don't have VPC <g> </snip> OK, we can kill that 'new sub thread' and continue here - and BTW I do have WinMe running on another machine and will continue to help Bill as far as I am able. Mart >> Test for Mart > > And another. In this case with a severely pruned References header which > should allow it to be posted whilst still being correctly threaded. >> Okay, then I'll use the basic system until some time >> when I might go online with it. The intended use which [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > What problems do you have when running the package in Win98/Me > compatibility mode on XP? Mike, I don't understand your terminology. The term 'compatibility mode' is (surprisingly, I guess) new to me. Up to 18 months ago I had a 2.1GHz PC in which I formatted an HDD and installed Win98 and upgraded to Win ME. I believe that it had 768MB Ram. PC died 18 months ago but I kept the HDD which, as you know I can pull all the files off but cannot make its OS operate. That's where I started bugging you most valuable people. My old Dos programs ran fine from command prompt on that Win ME. I made graphs on screen, and captured them to IrfanView and file. If I try to run the same programs by copying them over to XP and running them from either Windows Explorer or CMD, the programs run, but I have not found a way to get the graphs that they produce onscreen, to print, or to a file, I can't Screen Capture by 'normal' methods, or by any of half a dozen 'third party' capture programs that I've tried. This has been a long story, and maybe most of what I'm telling you is extraneous.....but I'm trying to be complete. Bill asked :- > Mike, I don't understand your terminology. The term > 'compatibility mode' is (surprisingly, I guess) new to me. How to use Windows Program Compatibility mode in Windows XP http://support.microsoft.com/kb/292533/en-us How to use the Program Compatibility Wizard in Windows XP http://support.microsoft.com/kb/301911/en-us And, if you've got an hour or so to spare, you might find this WebCast helpful and beneficial. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/330604/en-us Good luck Mart >>> Okay, then I'll use the basic system until some time >>> when I might go online with it. The intended use which [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > This has been a long story, and maybe most of what I'm telling > you is extraneous.....but I'm trying to be complete. Bill wrote :- > Sorry to bother you with such an elementary question, but I have 1.5 GB > of RAM and .... > .... came up with "Sorry, you don't have enough > memory" (I think), "Go back and take some stuff out of your autoexec". D'oh! - See "Out of Memory" Error Messages with Large Amounts of RAM Installed http://support.microsoft.com/kb/253912/en-us And it might also explain the issues you had with the 'old' disk. Pity you hadn't mentioned the amount of RAM before <g> You'll have to edit the system.ini file in DOS if you can't access it in Safe Mode. Failing that, see if you can pull some memory out to reduce it to 512 MB or less. Mart >> Mart (and Mike): >> You fellows have gone far beyond the call of duty and [quoted text clipped - 154 lines] > of RAM and this "new" HDD is 7.5GB, has *nothing* on it, and........ > how do I get out of this CATCH-22? Why complicate matters by first installing Win 98, this isn't necessary. Even if you have an upgrade copy of Win Me you can still clean install Win Me, all that is required is to have the Win 98 CD available and insert when requested during the Win Me install to verify your "right" to be using an upgrade copy of Win Me. SignatureMike Maltby mike.maltby@gmail.com > Mike, you've been very patient and logical and specific. > I had it stripped so that there was nothing I added to the [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > light on this set of happenings. Have a good day, and I > fear that you'll be hearing from me again. > It wants to install hidclass.sys hidpause.sys > hidvkc.sys mouse.drv msmon.vxd In which case I feel there is something very wrong. You have said elsewhere that the registry is pointing to the correct folder containing the Win Me cab set so these files should be automatically being extracted without your seeing any error message. hidclass.sys this is in PRECOPY1.CAB mouse.drv this is BASE2.CAB hidpause.sys <<<<< Not part of Win Me - hidparse.sys perhaps? If so in BASE2.CAB hidvkc.sys <<<<<<< Not part of Win Me - hidvkd.sys perhaps? If so in BASE2.CAB msmon.vxd <<<<<< Not part of Win Me - msmouse.vxd perhaps? If so in BASE2.CAB If however hidpause,sys, hidvkc.sys and msmon.vxd are correct then Win Me is attempting to install a third party driver. SignatureMike Maltby mike.maltby@gmail.com > Latest progress: I've gone around 3 times now, and > each time I remove more. I have not yet pulled [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > CD drive, so I can't lead it to the CD. That in itself > requires some advice....... |
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