Windows Forum / Windows Me / System Tools / August 2005
Excessive Restore Used Disk Space
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randau - 20 Aug 2005 23:37 GMT Excessive Restore Used Disk Space
I recently discovered I had over 6 GB of used space on the hard disk of my computer that's running Windows'ME. It hadn't displayed use of more than about 3 GB up to that time. I checked Disk usage Properties of all the folders under the C:\ directory and could not account for the extra 3 GB. So, I searched the Google Groups web site for posts about excessive disk space in Windows'ME and came across a very helpful prior post that resolved the problem. It was written by "Noel Paton" and a copy of it is appended to the bottom of this post. Thank you Noel!
When I first looked at File System Properties (after reading Noel's post), the Restore disk space use was at the Max setting of about 2.3 GB. But, still much less than my Restore folder's actual used space of about 5 GB (bulk of the excessive used hard disk space).
After Unchecking the Restore Disable box and using the [OK] and [Close] buttons before the 2nd rebooting, everything worked out as was anticipated from Noel's post. My Restore folder's used space went from 5.7 GB down to about 7 MB and my hard drive used space went from about 6.3 GB down to 1.33 GB. I hadn't realized that much of my initial 3 GB, thought of as authentic, was apparently already becoming excessive System Restore usage.
Question: When I first went to adjust the Restore disk space use, it was defaulted to 200 MB at the Min position with increments up to 400 MB at the Max position. But, when I Canceled and went back again to adjust it, it incremented from Min 200 MB to 2343 MB at the Max end. I couldn't get it to go back to incrementing between 200 and 400 MB Max, so I left it at the 200 MB Min. Does anyone understand what's going on there?
2nd Question: What causes System Restore to generate such huge (multi-GB's) of Restore data and/or what can be done to avoid that?
3rd Question: Does something like Noel's analysis and solution (below) also apply to Windows'98?
-- randau Oregon, USA
I read and post from the Google Groups web site using a Spam collecting email address that I don't use for anything else. So if someone wants to contact me, please cleanup and use the Spam resistant Email address below.
randau2...(at)...proaxis.com
Noel Paton's 2002 post: ======================= Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general From: "Noel Paton" <NoelDPspaml...@aol.com> Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 05:39:47 -0000 Local: Wed, Nov 27 2002 10:39 pm Subject: Re: Disk space misleading...
The probability here is that the rest is in 'hidden' files/folders, which may not be counted unless you have the option to view them set properly. The fact tat this amounts to 8GB, though, is somewhat worrying. One possible reason could be that System Restore has gone haywire, and is no longer FIFOing properly. Check that you have the options set to view Hidden files/folders, and System files, then go to the C: drive in Explorer. Right-click on the _Restore folder icon, and select Properties. What size does it report? Then (after closing Explorer etc) go to System Properties|Performance|File System|Hard Disk - what is the setting for 'System Restore disk space use'? If the size of the _Restore folder is greater than the allocation, then you have a corrupted SR archive, and will have to reset it.
To reset System Restore: System | Performance | File System | Troubleshooting and check "Disable System Restore", Apply and IMMEDIATELY reboot. This will flush your restore folder and erase all checkpoints, then, System | Performance | File System | Troubleshooting and uncheck "Disable System Restore", Apply and again IMMEDIATELY reboot. This should now automatically create a new checkpoint immediately following the restart. Finally adjust the space allocated to the restore folder, System | Performance | File System | Hard Disk and adjust the restore slider to your preferred setting. Most people operate fine with 200-300MB, in a 'stable' system.
HTH -- Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2003, Win9x)
Noel Paton - 21 Aug 2005 09:28 GMT Last question first.... Win 98 has no System Restore function - so nothing said about SR applies to it.
WRT your overflowing SR problem, this is often caused by either not properly resetting system restore (e.g. doing something else before rebooting, after changing the state of SR), or by manually attempting to alter the contents of the archive. Sometimes it seems also to be associated with use of Symantec software - but I think that is more by coincidence than anything else
It's not unusual (with modern hard drive sizes) to be unable to set an SR point between 200 and 400MB - I've slightly modified my advice in some messages to say 'one notch above the minimum'. The reason is that the default setting is 12% of the C:\ drive size, (your C: drive is 20GB??), and there are eight (IIRC) notches - in your case that would mean that each notch is worth 2200/8 = 275MB, so the first notch would be at 475MB. Such a setting would be fine - and less likely to cause problems when doing large installs.
HTH
 Signature Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2005, Windows)
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> Excessive Restore Used Disk Space > [quoted text clipped - 90 lines] > -- > Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2003, Win9x) randau - 21 Aug 2005 19:51 GMT > Last question first.... > Win 98 has no System Restore function - so nothing said > about SR applies to it. Thanks, so is it only Windows'ME that has the excessive System Restore used disk space problem?
> WRT your overflowing SR problem, this is often caused by > either not properly resetting system restore (e.g. doing [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > of Symantec software - but I think that is more by > coincidence than anything else I've never even had occasion to look at System Restore before reading your 2002 post. I had no idea how to use it. I thought it was something that Windows used for it's own internal maintenance. Does Windows make some hidden automatic use of System Restore for internal maintenance or is it only functional through user request?
However, I have been using Symantec's Norton SystemWorks for a long time.
> It's not unusual (with modern hard drive sizes) to be unable > to set an SR point between 200 and 400MB - I've slightly [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > be at 475MB. Such a setting would be fine - and less likely > to cause problems when doing large installs. Thank you Noel for your very succinct and clear answers to my questions. It's much appreciated.
-- randau Oregon, USA
Noel Paton - 21 Aug 2005 21:12 GMT Look here for a more concise explanation of the workings of System Restore (which only exists in Windows ME and XP, so far) http://support.microsoft.com/?scid=267951
- and here for a (fairly) complete list of potential issues (at least as far as MS is concerned <g>) http://www.btinternet.com/~winnoel/millsrpch.htm
Briefly, in its default configuration, ME's System Restore monitors a large number of filetypes, in a large number of areas of the system (but NOT in the My Documents folder!), and backs up files that are deleted or changed while the OS is running. Every 10 hours of system runtime - or every 24 hours of real-time - it creates a compressed file from these backups, together with a copy of the registry and certain other significant files (system.ini and win.ini), called a Restore Point. These restore points are in theory at least, inviolate, and cannot be changed. They stay on the system until they are removed either by resetting System Restore, or by the FIFO system (First In First Out) when the archive space becomes full.
If for some reason the control files become corrupted, then an overflow can result - such as you had - or SR can simply refuse to work.
I hope that makes sense - it's getting late here!<g>
 Signature Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2005, Windows)
Nil Carborundum Illegitemi http://www.btinternet.com/~winnoel/millsrpch.htm
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>> Last question first.... >> Win 98 has no System Restore function - so nothing said [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > randau > Oregon, USA randau - 23 Aug 2005 00:06 GMT I looked through the two links you posted and I bookmarked them for future reference. Thanks Noel.
After reading through your remarks and the first link you posted, I come to the conclusion that though Windows does a lot of automated creation of System Restore points, only the user can initiate an actual System Restore operation.
In the first link it states: "Manual restore points can be created before installing device drivers or software if you are uncertain how they will affect the overall performance of Windows. If you are unable to use the program's uninstaller to remove the software, you can roll back to the manual restore point that you created."
However, I've read elsewhere that System Restore doesn't remove the installed software and that you can only do that by Uninstalling the software. Then how does System Restore bring the system back to the state it was in before the software was installed?
Thanks again Noel for the links and your brief summary explanation.
-- randau
TheRealFastlane - 23 Aug 2005 07:46 GMT >However, I've read elsewhere that System Restore doesn't >remove the installed software and that you can only do that >by Uninstalling the software. Then how does System Restore >bring the system back to the state it was in before the >software was installed? Correct. What SR does do is restore your registry and other collected files to the state they were at the time the set point was created but the installed program remains on the drive(s).
-- Keyboard not detected Press F1 to continue
randau - 23 Aug 2005 18:51 GMT >>However, I've read elsewhere that System Restore doesn't >>remove the installed software and that you can only do that [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >point was created but the installed program remains on the >drive(s). Then I take it that the installed program is no longer operable even though it still remains on the drive. Can it still be uninstalled in that state?
Is the size of a Restore point that's generated as the result of a program installation a function of the size of the program being installed?
Noel Paton - 23 Aug 2005 21:03 GMT See inline.....
 Signature Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2005, Windows)
Nil Carborundum Illegitemi http://www.btinternet.com/~winnoel/millsrpch.htm
http://tinyurl.com/6oztj
Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to NG's
>>>However, I've read elsewhere that System Restore doesn't >>>remove the installed software and that you can only do that [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > operable even though it still remains on the drive. Can it > still be uninstalled in that state? Unlikely - if you want to unintsall it, then the best thing to do is reinstall it, then uninstall it again.
> Is the size of a Restore point that's generated as the > result of a program installation a function of the size of > the program being installed? Yes - and no
It's a function of 1) the size of the registry (usually about 4-8GB) 2) whether the program actually bothers to notify SR that a restore point needs to be created (which is done BEFORE the install! 3) The number of changes made to the monitored areas of the filesystem made during the install - it's then up to yiou whether you create another SR point afterwards, but if you decide to use SR to go back, then one is created to enable undo of the SR.
randau - 21 Aug 2005 19:55 GMT > Last question first.... > Win 98 has no System Restore function - so nothing said > about SR applies to it. Thanks, so is it only Windows'ME that has the excessive System Restore used disk space problem?
> WRT your overflowing SR problem, this is often caused by > either not properly resetting system restore (e.g. doing [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > of Symantec software - but I think that is more by > coincidence than anything else I've never even had occasion to look at System Restore before reading your 2002 post. I had no idea how to use it. I thought it was something that Windows used for it's own internal maintenance. Does Windows make some hidden automatic use of System Restore for internal maintenance or is it only functional through user request?
However, I have been using Symantec's Norton SystemWorks for a long time.
> It's not unusual (with modern hard drive sizes) to be unable > to set an SR point between 200 and 400MB - I've slightly [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > be at 475MB. Such a setting would be fine - and less likely > to cause problems when doing large installs. Thank you Noel for your very succinct and clear answers to my questions. It's much appreciated.
-- randau Oregon, USA
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