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Windows Forum / Windows Me / System Tools / August 2005

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Excessive Restore Used Disk Space

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randau - 20 Aug 2005 23:37 GMT
Excessive Restore Used Disk Space

I recently discovered I had over 6 GB of used space on the
hard disk of my computer that's running Windows'ME.  It
hadn't displayed use of more than about 3 GB up to that
time.  I checked Disk usage Properties of all the folders
under the C:\ directory and could not account for the extra
3 GB.  So, I searched the Google Groups web site for posts
about excessive disk space in Windows'ME and came across a
very helpful prior post that resolved the problem.  It was
written by "Noel Paton" and a copy of it is appended to the
bottom of this post.  Thank you Noel!

When I first looked at File System Properties (after reading
Noel's post), the Restore disk space use was at the Max
setting of about 2.3 GB.  But, still much less than my
Restore folder's actual used space of about 5 GB (bulk of
the excessive used hard disk space).

After Unchecking the Restore Disable box and using the [OK]
and [Close] buttons before the 2nd rebooting, everything
worked out as was anticipated from Noel's post.  My Restore
folder's used space went from 5.7 GB down to about 7 MB and
my hard drive used space went from about 6.3 GB down to 1.33
GB.  I hadn't realized that much of my initial 3 GB, thought
of as authentic, was apparently already becoming excessive
System Restore usage.

Question:  When I first went to adjust the Restore disk
space use, it was defaulted to 200 MB at the Min position
with increments up to 400 MB at the Max position.  But, when
I Canceled and went back again to adjust it, it incremented
from Min 200 MB to 2343 MB at the Max end.  I couldn't get
it to go back to incrementing between 200 and 400 MB Max, so
I left it at the 200 MB Min.  Does anyone understand what's
going on there?

2nd Question:  What causes System Restore to generate such
huge (multi-GB's) of Restore data and/or what can be done to
avoid that?

3rd Question:  Does something like Noel's analysis and
solution (below) also apply to Windows'98?

--
randau
Oregon, USA

I read and post from the Google Groups web site using a Spam
collecting email address that I don't use for anything else.
So if someone wants to contact me, please cleanup and use
the Spam resistant Email address below.

            randau2...(at)...proaxis.com

Noel Paton's 2002 post:
=======================
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general
From: "Noel Paton" <NoelDPspaml...@aol.com>
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 05:39:47 -0000
Local: Wed, Nov 27 2002 10:39 pm
Subject: Re: Disk space misleading...

The probability here is that the rest is in 'hidden'
files/folders, which may not be counted unless you have the
option to view them set properly.  The fact tat this amounts
to 8GB, though, is somewhat worrying.  One possible reason
could be that System Restore has gone haywire, and is no
longer FIFOing properly.  Check that you have the options
set to view Hidden files/folders, and System files, then go
to the C:  drive in Explorer.  Right-click on the _Restore
folder icon, and select Properties.  What size does it
report?  Then (after closing Explorer etc) go to System
Properties|Performance|File System|Hard Disk - what is the
setting for 'System Restore disk space use'?  If the size of
the _Restore folder is greater than the allocation, then you
have a corrupted SR archive, and will have to reset it.

To reset System Restore:
System | Performance | File System | Troubleshooting and
check "Disable System Restore", Apply and IMMEDIATELY
reboot.  This will flush your restore folder and erase all
checkpoints, then, System | Performance | File System |
Troubleshooting and uncheck "Disable System Restore", Apply
and again IMMEDIATELY reboot.  This should now automatically
create a new checkpoint immediately following the restart.
Finally adjust the space allocated to the restore folder,
System | Performance | File System | Hard Disk and adjust
the restore slider to your preferred setting.  Most people
operate fine with 200-300MB, in a 'stable' system.

HTH
--
Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2003, Win9x)
Noel Paton - 21 Aug 2005 09:28 GMT
Last question first....
Win 98 has no System Restore function - so nothing said about SR applies to
it.

WRT your overflowing SR problem, this is often caused by either not properly
resetting system restore (e.g. doing something else before rebooting, after
changing the state of SR), or by manually attempting to alter the contents
of the archive. Sometimes it seems also to be associated with use of
Symantec software - but I think that is more by coincidence than anything
else

It's not unusual (with modern hard drive sizes) to be unable to set an SR
point between 200 and 400MB - I've slightly modified my advice in some
messages to say 'one notch above the minimum'.
The reason is that the default setting is 12% of the C:\ drive size, (your
C: drive is 20GB??), and there are eight (IIRC) notches - in your case that
would mean that each notch is worth 2200/8 = 275MB, so the first notch would
be at 475MB. Such a setting would be fine - and less likely to cause
problems when doing large installs.

HTH
Signature

Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2005, Windows)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.btinternet.com/~winnoel/millsrpch.htm

http://tinyurl.com/6oztj

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> Excessive Restore Used Disk Space
>
[quoted text clipped - 90 lines]
> --
> Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2003, Win9x)
randau - 21 Aug 2005 19:51 GMT
> Last question first....
> Win 98 has no System Restore function - so nothing said
> about SR applies to it.

Thanks, so is it only Windows'ME that has the excessive
System Restore used disk space problem?

> WRT your overflowing SR problem, this is often caused by
> either not properly resetting system restore (e.g.  doing
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> of Symantec software - but I think that is more by
> coincidence than anything else

I've never even had occasion to look at System Restore
before reading your 2002 post.  I had no idea how to use it.
I thought it was something that Windows used for it's own
internal maintenance.  Does Windows make some hidden
automatic use of System Restore for internal maintenance or
is it only functional through user request?

However, I have been using Symantec's Norton SystemWorks for
a long time.

> It's not unusual (with modern hard drive sizes) to be unable
> to set an SR point between 200 and 400MB - I've slightly
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> be at 475MB.  Such a setting would be fine - and less likely
> to cause problems when doing large installs.

Thank you Noel for your very succinct and clear answers to
my questions.  It's much appreciated.

--
randau
Oregon, USA
Noel Paton - 21 Aug 2005 21:12 GMT
Look here for a more concise explanation of the workings of System Restore
(which only exists in Windows ME and XP, so far)
http://support.microsoft.com/?scid=267951

- and here for a (fairly) complete list of potential issues (at least as
far as MS is concerned <g>)
http://www.btinternet.com/~winnoel/millsrpch.htm

Briefly, in its default configuration, ME's System Restore monitors a large
number of filetypes, in a large number of areas of the system (but NOT in
the My Documents folder!), and backs up files that are deleted or changed
while the OS is running. Every 10 hours of system runtime -  or every 24
hours of real-time - it creates a compressed file from these backups,
together with a copy of the registry and certain other significant files
(system.ini and win.ini), called a Restore Point. These restore points are
in theory at least, inviolate, and cannot be changed. They stay on the
system until they are removed either by resetting System Restore, or by the
FIFO system (First In First Out) when the archive space becomes full.

If for some reason the control files become corrupted, then an overflow can
result - such as you had - or SR can simply refuse to work.

I hope that makes sense - it's getting late here!<g>

Signature

Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2005, Windows)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.btinternet.com/~winnoel/millsrpch.htm

http://tinyurl.com/6oztj

Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to NG's

>> Last question first....
>> Win 98 has no System Restore function - so nothing said
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
> randau
> Oregon, USA
randau - 23 Aug 2005 00:06 GMT
I looked through the two links you posted and I bookmarked
them for future reference.  Thanks Noel.

After reading through your remarks and the first link you
posted, I come to the conclusion that though Windows does a
lot of automated creation of System Restore points, only the
user can initiate an actual System Restore operation.

In the first link it states:
   "Manual restore points can be created before installing
   device drivers or software if you are uncertain how they
   will affect the overall performance of Windows.  If you
   are unable to use the program's uninstaller to remove
   the software, you can roll back to the manual restore
   point that you created."

However, I've read elsewhere that System Restore doesn't
remove the installed software and that you can only do that
by Uninstalling the software.  Then how does System Restore
bring the system back to the state it was in before the
software was installed?

Thanks again Noel for the links and your brief summary
explanation.

--
randau
TheRealFastlane - 23 Aug 2005 07:46 GMT
>However, I've read elsewhere that System Restore doesn't
>remove the installed software and that you can only do that
>by Uninstalling the software.  Then how does System Restore
>bring the system back to the state it was in before the
>software was installed?

Correct. What SR does do is restore your registry and other collected
files to the state they were at the time the set point was created but
the installed program remains on the drive(s).

-- Keyboard not detected
  Press F1 to continue
randau - 23 Aug 2005 18:51 GMT
>>However, I've read elsewhere that System Restore doesn't
>>remove the installed software and that you can only do that
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>point was created but the installed program remains on the
>drive(s).

Then I take it that the installed program is no longer
operable even though it still remains on the drive.  Can it
still be uninstalled in that state?

Is the size of a Restore point that's generated as the
result of a program installation a function of the size of
the program being installed?
Noel Paton - 23 Aug 2005 21:03 GMT
See inline.....

Signature

Noel Paton (MS-MVP 2002-2005, Windows)

Nil Carborundum Illegitemi
http://www.btinternet.com/~winnoel/millsrpch.htm

http://tinyurl.com/6oztj

Please read http://dts-l.org/goodpost.htm on how to post messages to NG's

>>>However, I've read elsewhere that System Restore doesn't
>>>remove the installed software and that you can only do that
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> operable even though it still remains on the drive.  Can it
> still be uninstalled in that state?

Unlikely - if you want to unintsall it, then the best thing to do is
reinstall it, then uninstall it again.

> Is the size of a Restore point that's generated as the
> result of a program installation a function of the size of
> the program being installed?

Yes - and no

It's a function of
1) the size of the registry (usually about 4-8GB)
2) whether the program actually bothers to notify SR that a restore point
needs to be created (which is done BEFORE the install!
3) The number of changes made to the monitored areas of the filesystem made
during the install - it's then up to yiou whether you create another SR
point afterwards, but if you decide to use SR to go back, then one is
created to enable undo of the SR.
randau - 21 Aug 2005 19:55 GMT
> Last question first....
> Win 98 has no System Restore function - so nothing said
> about SR applies to it.

Thanks, so is it only Windows'ME that has the excessive
System Restore used disk space problem?

> WRT your overflowing SR problem, this is often caused by
> either not properly resetting system restore (e.g.  doing
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> of Symantec software - but I think that is more by
> coincidence than anything else

I've never even had occasion to look at System Restore
before reading your 2002 post.  I had no idea how to use it.
I thought it was something that Windows used for it's own
internal maintenance.  Does Windows make some hidden
automatic use of System Restore for internal maintenance or
is it only functional through user request?

However, I have been using Symantec's Norton SystemWorks for
a long time.

> It's not unusual (with modern hard drive sizes) to be unable
> to set an SR point between 200 and 400MB - I've slightly
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> be at 475MB.  Such a setting would be fine - and less likely
> to cause problems when doing large installs.

Thank you Noel for your very succinct and clear answers to
my questions.  It's much appreciated.

--
randau
Oregon, USA
 
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