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Windows Forum / Windows Me / System Tools / January 2007Automatic System Restore Checkpoints Quit Setting
Hi: I just noticed that Win ME quit making its automatic daily checkpoints as of about 1 Jan 2007. Manual restore points can still be set and system restore seems to work fine. In checking the Internet it looks like automatic checkpoints stop if task scheduler quits or if the system is never idle for an extended period of time. Scheduler is running and both the "tune up application start" and "pc health" apparently run regularly. DOES ONE OF THESE CREATE SYSTEM CHECKPOINTS? (I hope so). If so what should the time and duration etc.settings for the event be? I don't know of anything else that would keep the system busy and prevent checkpoints from being set.. I will run a virus scan tonight. I have checked the running processes with process explorer and there is nothing unusual running. I will also shut off all of the normal stuff at night and see if it takes the opportunity to make a checkpoint. (It used to work just fine). Any ideas? Thanks, John The creation of automatic checkpoints has nothing to do with any of Task Scheduler, Tune Up Application Start nor PCHealth. Although the topic for perhaps another post there is nothing to be gained by your running either Tune Up Start, once it has run once it has done its job, or PCHealth, which does nothing other than create archival data that is of little or no use to anyone including support professionals. Ideas? What's been installed, changed or updated has to be the first question. What do you have being launched each time you boot your PC is the next. Remember though that the state manager won't create an automatic checkpoint if the system isn't idle or is "fooled" into believing the system isn't idle.  SignatureMike Maltby MS-MVP Windows mike.maltby@gmail.com > Hi: > I just noticed that Win ME quit making its automatic daily [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > stuff at night and see if it takes the opportunity to make a > checkpoint. (It used to work just fine). Mike: Well it wasn't a virus, and state manager is running. I thought about the recent program additions and I backed out the most likely ones before I made the original post. I shut things down to the bare essentials last night and there was no checkpoint created during the night. Apparently state manager should be running (and it is). Is there anything else that I should look for that is essential for automatic checkpoint creation? How long does it usually go between checkpoints if programs are not added? Thanks for your help. John > The creation of automatic checkpoints has nothing to do with any of Task > Scheduler, Tune Up Application Start nor PCHealth. Although the topic [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > stuff at night and see if it takes the opportunity to make a > > checkpoint. (It used to work just fine). All that is required is for the state manager to be running. I suspect that you have either installed or updated a program that is causing you these problems but since you omitted to mention what programs you have launched each time you boot your PC and that continue running its difficult to speculate further. I appreciate you said shut down to bare essentials but I've no real idea as to what you might consider to be "bare essentials". For example does this include your AV and firewall? > Is there > anything else that I should look for that is essential for automatic > checkpoint creation? No. Other than, of course, not having running one of many of the programs that can interfere with the creation of automatic checkpoints, > How long does it usually go between checkpoints > if programs are not added? I'm sorry but I don't know what you mean by "if programs are not added". If you mean what is the interval between automatic checkpoints then for Win Me by default this is 10 hours subject to the PC being idle otherwise the interval can be longer. SignatureMike Maltby mike.maltby@gmail.com > Mike: > Well it wasn't a virus, and state manager is running. I thought about [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > if programs are not added? > Thanks for your help. Just a comment--A short while back, I stopped getting automatic Restore Points. Finally correlated it with the same the time frame that I decided to stay "online" without disconnecting. Have DSL and got a new DSL/Router/Wireless modem from Verizon and didn't disconnect at the end of the day as was my habit.. When I started disconnecting again, back came the Restore Points. The modem indicator lights (DSL & Internet) are always active (blinking and flickering) whether online or not--Not sure why but I've been told that it was a normal phenomena. It seems that this activity was enough to stop the Restore Points. What do you think? MLD > All that is required is for the state manager to be running. I suspect > that you have either installed or updated a program that is causing you [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > > if programs are not added? > > Thanks for your help. MLD, Good comments. It's unlikely however that your router is the problem but rather software on your PC that is continuously monitoring your net connection such as say a firewall. Firewalls and AV applications can often cause the state manager to stop making automatic system checkpoints especially when they are logging their activity and therefore writing to disk. SignatureMike Maltby mike.maltby@gmail.com > Just a comment--A short while back, I stopped getting automatic > Restore Points. Finally correlated it with the same the time frame [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > that it was a normal phenomena. It seems that this activity was > enough to stop the Restore Points. What do you think? The 10 hour number is what I was looking for. and I believe I had things shut down long enough last night so that the 10 hour requirement would have been satisfied. Now, what do I mean by shut down to the "bare essentials"? Last night the only things that were running were Explorer, RunDLL, Systray, Hidserv, and Mdm. As far as I know these programs are pretty benign, and some are essential to windows. As to what is normally started up; All sorts of stuff normally starts on this machine. But none of it has been updated recently (except the AVG antivirus database), and this machine has worked just fine for years with all of that stuff starting. To be specific, this machine hosts a home control system and there are several programs associated with that (for cameras etc.) which are normally loaded on startup. There are also things in start up like the resource meter, a couple launchers which look for particular USB devices (like my camera), and of course the antivirus program. Last night all of these were turned off (including the antivirus program). There is a router between the computer and the cable modem, but to be sure that nothing from the Internet would disturb the computer I also put the cable modem into the standby mode overnight. There is one thing that I have noticed recently that might be related. When I do a cnt/alt/del to see what is running there are occasionally two or more copies of the same program running. Sometimes it is the inbox (Outlook), sometimes it is Internet Explorer, sometimes it is something else. These "extra" instances only show up in the close program box and not in system tray or task bar. When I try to close the superflous copy with close program, I get a "program is not responding" error message followed by a "force closure option" window shortly thereafter. Could it be that this little quirk is keeping the machine busy and preventing check point setting? I actually think this problem may have been around to a much lesser extent for a long time, but until now it has not caused noticable problem. When the machine is restarted, everything looks normal again, as might be expected. Besides the antivirus scan last evening I also ran several anti spyware scans with different antispyware programs and nothing showed up. I also ran scandisk and there were no errors (but there were errors when I ran it a week or so ago). This machine is obviously several years old. The disk was replaced about 4 years ago and seems to be holding up pretty well (so far). (I realize that is a dangerous thing to say). I have tried to answer your questions. I have probably given you more information than you really want, but I hope it helps. Thanks, John > MLD, > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > that it was a normal phenomena. It seems that this activity was > > enough to stop the Restore Points. What do you think? If nobody has any further easy thoughts (other than awful things like the reinstallation of windows); the last sucessful routine checkpoint was on Dec 31 in the middle of the night. I have not done much to the computer since then. Perhaps I should restore to that point and see if it solves the problem? Any opinions on the advisability of this? P.S. It seems really odd that this issue coincides EXACTLY with the end of 2006. Can anybody think of anything that might be calendar related? Thanks, John > The 10 hour number is what I was looking for. and I believe I had things > shut down long enough last night so that the 10 hour requirement would have [quoted text clipped - 64 lines] > > > that it was a normal phenomena. It seems that this activity was > > > enough to stop the Restore Points. What do you think? John wrote :- > P.S. It seems really odd that this issue coincides EXACTLY with the end of > 2006. Can anybody think of anything that might be calendar related? John, if you are trying to suggest that this maybe WinMe issue (bug?) please be assured that it's not. My WinMe box has still been creating Auto SR points since 31 Dec and yesterday (5th Jan) created two in the one day 10 hrs apart, as I had left it on and had forgotten to turn it off. Keep with Mike M's advice and try to isolate the offending program/utility. > ... If you grab yourself a copy of WinTop or Process Explorer > this will help show if these processes are sitting there using cpu cycles. > This is quite possible. No easy solutions - just hard graft trouble-shooting! Separates the men from the boys! (And ladies from the girls - Sorry Heather and Joan, it's only an expression - I mustn't be sexist on the WinMe NG's (or anywhere else!!) <g>) Mart > If nobody has any further easy thoughts (other than awful things like the > reinstallation of windows); the last sucessful routine checkpoint was on [quoted text clipped - 93 lines] >> > > that it was a normal phenomena. It seems that this activity was >> > > enough to stop the Restore Points. What do you think? HEY IT WORKED!!! All it took was a good meal, a glass of wine, no Internet and no programs running. I shut everything down during dinner so that only explorer and systray showed up in the program manager window (and I also powered down the router) and low and behold I came back after dinner and a checkpoint had been created. I did not use process explorer to shut down additional things.so all of the stuff concealed from the program manager was still running and is obviously not causing the problem. Since everything was shut down via the program manager only, this ought to make trouble shooting a little easier . OK now all I have to do is add an additional program each night until I find the culprit. This may take several nights. Tonight I will start by making sure that none of those extra redundant "false" instances of programs are running. and start from there. As I mentioned, this may take several nights, so please don't expect to hear from me for a couple days. I will let you know when I find the culprit. Thanks all for your help, I think I am on my way to a solution. You have all been very helpful. John > John wrote :- > [quoted text clipped - 116 lines] > >> > > that it was a normal phenomena. It seems that this activity was > >> > > enough to stop the Restore Points. What do you think? > Now, what do I mean by shut down to the "bare essentials"? Last night > the only things that were running were Explorer, RunDLL, Systray, > Hidserv, and Mdm. I don't know why you have mdm (Microsoft's Machine Debug Manager) running but unless stmgr.exe is running then you will never see any checkpoints being created. I'm guessing you are seeing Hidserv because you are using usb input devices. Having two or more instances of iexplore.exe running shouldn't be a problem. This is quite normal where a PC has a decent amount of RAM. I'm not so sure though why you are seeing multiple instances of Outlook - this might be normal but since I prefer not to use this app I can't really comment. I'm not clear though why you are seeing RunDLL. This is slightly worrying and could be indicative of your having an unwanted guest running in the background. How are you determining what is running? Are you using Win Me's crude Task Manager (Ctrl-Alt-Del) or a process monitor such as WinTop or Process Explorer? A fully patched Win Me system here with no apps running has the following processes running as seen using WinTop: Kernel32.dll, msgsrv32.exe, mmtask.tsk, mprexe.exe, mstask.exe, kb891711.exe, kb918574.exe, explorer.exe, taskmon.exe, systray.exe and stmgr.exe running plus Wintop.exe. Ctrl-Alt-Del shows just Explorer and Systray plus WinTop. > When I try to close the superfluous copy with close program, I > get a "program is not responding" error message followed by a "force > closure option" window shortly thereafter. Could it be that this > little quirk is keeping the machine busy and preventing check point > setting? Could well be. If you grab yourself a copy of WinTop or Process Explorer this will help show if these processes are sitting there using cpu cycles. This is quite possible. > The disk was replaced about 4 years ago and seems > to be holding up pretty well (so far). (I realize that is a dangerous > thing to say). Shhh! Fingers crossed for both of us. I lost three drives last year, two within days of each other on the same box but they were part of a RAID 5 array so I lost no data but I lost one a couple of weeks ago and still haven't got round to checking it. Fortunately it only contained back ups so the loss wasn't critical. SignatureMike Maltby mike.maltby@gmail.com > The 10 hour number is what I was looking for. and I believe I had > things shut down long enough last night so that the 10 hour [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > I have tried to answer your questions. I have probably given you more > information than you really want, but I hope it helps. Mike: I will address these individually below: > > Now, what do I mean by shut down to the "bare essentials"? Last night > > the only things that were running were Explorer, RunDLL, Systray, [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > being created. I'm guessing you are seeing Hidserv because you are using > usb input devices. I was reading from the list given as a result of cnt/alt/del after I shut down all of the items in the task bar and system tray that weren't obviously needed. MDM has always been there. It may be something that Dell does as part of their customizing. I agree with you on Hidserv. There are several USB devices used on this machine. > Having two or more instances of iexplore.exe running shouldn't be a > problem. This is quite normal where a PC has a decent amount of RAM. I'm > not so sure though why you are seeing multiple instances of Outlook - this > might be normal but since I prefer not to use this app I can't really > comment. I understand your comment about IE, however one of these instances is not real in that it doesn't show up in the task bar and won't close normally (with cnt/alt/del). You get the "program not responding" error message when you use cnt/alt/del and a short while later you get a message asking if you want to close it manually. The Outlook 2nd instance is also false (and abnormal) in that it does not show up in the task bar and does not close normally via the task mgr. > I'm not clear though why you are seeing RunDLL. This is slightly worrying > and could be indicative of your having an unwanted guest running in the > background. Again, run dll is one of those things that have been there as long as I can remember. I always assumed that it was started by one of the programs which I had shut down earlier in the evening (like the home control program). How are you determining what is running? Are you using Win > Me's crude Task Manager (Ctrl-Alt-Del) or a process monitor such as WinTop > or Process Explorer? You are correct task mgr is pretty crude. I am using procexp.exe (process explorer) (great little program, been using it for years). And yes, mstask.exe is running even though it doesn't show up in task mgr. > A fully patched Win Me system here with no apps running has the following > processes running as seen using WinTop: > Kernel32.dll, msgsrv32.exe, mmtask.tsk, mprexe.exe, mstask.exe, > kb891711.exe, kb918574.exe, explorer.exe, taskmon.exe, systray.exe and > stmgr.exe running plus Wintop.exe. How about this 918547 instead of 918574? I'll bet you are left handed. When I do that sort of thing people blame it on my left handedness. All of the above are running plus a few that are probably left over from things that I shut down previously. There is also a spooler running under msgsvr32 and I always thought that the printer driver may have something to do with that. > Ctrl-Alt-Del shows just Explorer and Systray plus WinTop. Tonight maybe I will shut down the extras via process explorer and let's see if it sets a check point tomorrow morning. > > When I try to close the superfluous copy with close program, I > > get a "program is not responding" error message followed by a "force [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > this will help show if these processes are sitting there using cpu cycles. > This is quite possible. Process Explorer makes everythng look pretty calm. Idle is usually 99% and process explorer is the other 1%. I think I did see explorer.exe jump up to a couple % once, but then I blinked and I never saw it again. It is right next to process explorer and maybe I was seeing process explorer instead of explorer.exe (I think I have been staring at the screen too long, time for some food maybe) (and a beer). > > The disk was replaced about 4 years ago and seems > > to be holding up pretty well (so far). (I realize that is a dangerous [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > haven't got round to checking it. Fortunately it only contained back ups > so the loss wasn't critical. Man, you were lucky. I am an electrical engineer and I have always been suspicous of them thar mechanical gadgets. .Maybe some day we will have reliable electronic mass storage and disks will be a thing of the past. What did you think of my idea of just restoring to Dec 31 when everything was normal and writing this off as another one of those wonderful mysteries of science? Is there anything that a restore to a good point of operation would not correct? Thanks again, John > Mike Maltby > mike.maltby@gmail.com [quoted text clipped - 48 lines] > > I have tried to answer your questions. I have probably given you more > > information than you really want, but I hope it helps. > Is there anything that a restore to a > good point of operation would not correct? The main thing that won't be rolled back correctly is where you have uninstalled an app since the checkpoint was created and the app uses files with extensions that are not in the set monitored by the state manager. Let's take a hypothetical example, one where the application has configuration files that use an abc extension. Whilst the associated registry entries and files with monitored extensions such as exe, dll, tlb, ini, cfg etc. will be rolled back (restored) those with an abc extension would not. So looking at WinZip on this box, if I had uninstalled WinZip since the checkpoint to which I was returning a number of files in WinZip's Program Files folder would not be restored, primarily five files with a WJF extension but also one with a ZIP extension, another with an RTF extension and a couple of compiled help files with a CHM extension. Similarly if you have installed an application since the checkpoint there is a possibility that some minor files might still be present after rolling back to the checkpoint but not the application itself or any associated registry entries. Of course, the contents of the My Documents object will be untouched as should also be the case for most if not all data files regardless of where located. Other files that are excluded from being rolled back include the PCHealth logs, cookies, internet history, etc. contents of the Program Files\WindowsUpdate folder and a few other files and locations including the contents of the Windows\Temp folder. I suspect you have little to lose by rolling back to 31 December but whether that will be sufficient to kick start the state manager into starting to create automatic checkpoints again is another matter entirely! <vbg> SignatureMike Maltby mike.maltby@gmail.com > Mike: > I will address these individually below: [quoted text clipped - 102 lines] > wonderful mysteries of science? Is there anything that a restore to a > good point of operation would not correct? Mike Thanks: See my response 3 posts above. I think It may be working. At least I now have a better direction, but it may take a while to get to the bottom of it. Much more detective work ahead. John > > Is there anything that a restore to a > > good point of operation would not correct? [quoted text clipped - 136 lines] > > wonderful mysteries of science? Is there anything that a restore to a > > good point of operation would not correct? The only way to solve this or many other similar problems is by trial and error and elimination. It can take lots of time or one can strike lucky. The biggest problem, and I'm not talking here just about system restore, is when the problem is caused by two programs interacting with each other in some way, neither being the state manager. A hypothetical example being where running a firewall alone causes no problems and likewise when running an AV alone but that when running them both together one has a problem. This is what can make resolving such issues so time consuming. You might hit paydirt with the first thing you try and then again it might take weeks. Worse is where the problem is related to things such as the order in which applications were installed or the order, often uncontrollable but influenced by their installation order, in which they are loaded when booting a system. SignatureMike Maltby mike.maltby@gmail.com > Mike Thanks: > See my response 3 posts above. I think It may be working. At least I > now have a better direction, but it may take a while to get to the > bottom of it. Much more detective work ahead. Yes, this kind of thing can get icky. From what I have seen on the net, after a checkpoint the computer waits for ten hours, and then it waits "until you are not using the computer" and then it makes another checkpoint. What makes it think "you are not using the computer"? Does it wait until it sees a constant idle state for several minutes or what? If idle is the key, then how long must the idle state exist before it sets the restore point? If I knew what parameter it was looking for (after the 10 hour wait) maybe I could see what is canceling that parameter and I could probably shorten the number of ten hour cycles it will take to find the culprit. Last night when I went to dinner after shutting everything down it only took a couple minutes and then the checkpoint was created. It is like the 10 hours cocks the gun and then SOMETHING pulls the trigger almost immediately after the gun is cocked. What is that "something" and how long must it exist? Hopefully I can look right now for the "something" and see what is causing the checkpoint not to set, and therefore shorten the number of 10 hour cycles. . Hmmm, in re-reading this it looks a little redundantly redundant. Hope this makes sense. Sorry for the verbocity. Thanks, John > The only way to solve this or many other similar problems is by trial and > error and elimination. It can take lots of time or one can strike lucky. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > problem. This is what can make resolving such issues so time consuming. > You might hit paydirt with the first thing you try and then again it might > take weeks. Worse is where the problem is related to things such as the > order in which applications were installed or the order, often [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > now have a better direction, but it may take a while to get to the > > bottom of it. Much more detective work ahead. > What makes it think "you are not using the computer"? What has already I thought been quite clearly stated in this thread, the cpu being idle. Something like 5% or less and for a period of 3 minutes. A much better and more relevant question I would have thought it is what prevents a checkpoint being created but will leave you to discover and answer that one for yourself as I have to take both my main PCs off-line for major hardware and software changes and don't expect to be back for any length of time before Sunday evening at best. Since you say you have spent time researching the problem on the net I'm not going to spend much time posting answers to questions that I have already answered both literally and actually many thousands of times already in this and the Win Me General newsgroup over the last six and a half years. Use Google groups and you will be able to read those postings. SignatureMike Maltby mike.maltby@gmail.com > Yes, this kind of thing can get icky. > From what I have seen on the net, after a checkpoint the computer [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > this it looks a little redundantly redundant. Hope this makes sense. > Sorry for the verbocity. The 5% or less for 3 minutes minutes is what I was looking for, and I don't remember that being stated previously, yes the statement about idle being the trigger has been stated. previously. The net is a great source of misinformation and what I found out there specifically contradicts what I found here and that is why I posted in the first place. Some of the people who were acting as experts on this subject on the net were just plain wrong, either that or they were talking about a different operating system and did not specify which one they were talking about.. Anyway, I think I am off and running since I have had some success . It is probably now just a matter of diligence to get to the bottom of the problem. Best wishes with your computer changes and thanks for the help. John > > What makes it think "you are not using the computer"? > [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > this it looks a little redundantly redundant. Hope this makes sense. > > Sorry for the verbocity. John, I've stated 5% or thereabouts and 3 minutes in a number of posts over the last 6½ years but admittedly not that often. <g> Rather then the "net" may I suggest using Google Groups Advanced Search and that way you can check the Microsoft Win Me newsgroups back to their creation in June 2000. I feel you will find that many of your questions have been asked and answered a number of times before although occasionally a new question arises but much less often nowadays given the number of years that have been passed since Win Me was first released. I agree there is a lot of bad or poor information about Win Me on the net, often posted by people who knew little or nothing about the subject. They booted it once, didn't like it and went back to Win 98SE rather than take a little time to learn its nuances and foibles. I hope that all goes well with your hunt for the offending app. I'll try and pop back later but am not sure when that will be as I've still a long way to go with my hardware changes. At the moment this box is up an running for a bit whereas my main box is now in pieces as I am about to replace/restore two of its disks after which I have to rebuild one of its arrays, a RAID 5 that is one of my main data stores. Best wishes. SignatureMike Maltby mike.maltby@gmail.com > The 5% or less for 3 minutes minutes is what I was looking for, and I > don't remember that being stated previously, yes the statement about [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Best wishes with your computer changes and thanks for the help. Thanks again Mike; I probably use advanced search on google more than I use plain old google. I will admit that I am not at all into google groups (in fact I don't know if I have ever used them). I will give that a shot next time I do a search for this sort of thing. Thanks, sometimes the really obvious is overlooked. That is a really good idea. John > John, > [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > > > Best wishes with your computer changes and thanks for the help. Mission Accomplished. I thioght folks might want to know how I resolved it problem. I ended up doing a system restore back to the last good periodic checkpoint and that fixed it. Boy was I lucky I caught that problem early. That could have been a nightmare if it had been created long ago. Thanks much to all that contributed. Now on to the next problem. I still have the false double program entry in the task manager and I am afraid that it is consuming resources. I will start by doing a google groups search and if I can't find anything I will come back and either post here (since this group is definitely alive) or in another more appropriate MS group (like ME General) (don't know if that one is alive or not right now). Anyway, thank you all VERY VERY much for your help. > Thanks again Mike; > I probably use advanced search on google more than I use plain old google. [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > > > > > Best wishes with your computer changes and thanks for the help. Mike: You might recall that a while back that Avast was the source of stopping the creation of automatic Restore Points. Fortunately, they fixed whatever was the cause and that problem has now gone away.. I am using free Zone Alarm and that has not been a Restore Point issue. With due respect to your comments, in my case, when I no longer stay connected full time to the internet (with the new modem) I get Restore Points (and with the same frequency) as I did in the past. I know that with my old modem the indicator lights were steady as a rock with an occasional flicker if some action was taking place. As I mentioned in my first post---the lights on this new Modem/Router are continuously blinking and flickering even with the computer sitting nice and quiet---somewhere, somehow there is an answer to what is going on relative to the interaction of the Router/Modem, software and the System Restore function. Other than being able to identify/correlate the circumstances that trigger the "no Restore Points" I don't know enough to figure it out. MLD > MLD, > [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > that it was a normal phenomena. It seems that this activity was > > enough to stop the Restore Points. What do you think? And in what way does anything in your post contradict what I posted? If the lights are blinking on your router then it is seeing traffic and if one of those lights is the LAN light then traffic is passing between your PC and the router. So once again your router is not the factor but rather that you are on line and that you have some application running on your PC that is preventing the creation of system restore checkpoints. If you think that neither your firewall (and you don't need one if you have a router using NAT) or AV is the cause of your problem then you have some other application running that is talking to the net. This is what you need to eliminate as being the cause of the problem. Remember your router will only be passing traffic to your PC if you have an application on the PC that is asking for that information and your PC will only be sending traffic to the router if you have an application running on the PC that is doing this. SignatureMike Maltby mike.maltby@gmail.com > Mike: > You might recall that a while back that Avast was the source of [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] >>> that it was a normal phenomena. It seems that this activity was >>> enough to stop the Restore Points. What do you think? Mike OK, what you say makes sense to me. I never stayed on line continuously with my first modem and thus can't say that the exact problem (no Restore Points) would not have occurred. So begs the question--is there any way to systematically track down the application that is talking to the net? New comment--I ran a probe scan test of the computer with, and without Zone Alarm activated. With ZA activated every port was found to be "stealth". With it off, just about all the ports were "open". The new Router's default mode uses NAT. Repeated the probe scan with ZA off and found that many of the ports were now designated "closed" but not "stealth". So the question here is--how much, if any, is the loss of security with respect to Hacker type probes with just the Router providing the protection vs Zone Alarm? Appreciate your comments. MLD > And in what way does anything in your post contradict what I posted? If > the lights are blinking on your router then it is seeing traffic and if [quoted text clipped - 52 lines] > >>> that it was a normal phenomena. It seems that this activity was > >>> enough to stop the Restore Points. What do you think? MLD. > question--is there any way to systematically track down the > application that is talking to the net? Yes and no. I've got an app that keeps track of all my net activity, WAN and LAN but it isn't free and I'm not sure it even runs on Win Me. The app is called Netlimiter and whilst it can keep track of every byte leaving and entering the PC and from which application, external site etc. it's main use is to allow me to prioritise bandwidth sharing between applications. Let me think a little more about this and see if I can come up with something relatively simple to get us going. I'm typing this from a box running XP Pro but will fire up Win Me and play a bit but I may not post back my results until later as it's just after midnight here in London. Running NETSTAT -A in a DOS window will list all of your current connections, their local ports and the address to which they are trying to connect but not the application involved or the amount of traffic passing (if any) between the two. I'll dig around a bit and try and remember to post back tomorrow. Router. A closed port is OK although stealth is better. The only problem with "closed" is that the router has responded to the probe and any potential attacker now knows that there is something at the address. This doesn't necessarily mean that they are going to get access as to do that you have to have some application on your PC that is listening for and going to respond to their call and unless you are running servers, and here I include file sharing applications such as Bit Torrent and eMule, the attackers calls for attention are going to go unanswered. I've just checked this box, or rather my router, and all common ports are showing as Stealth with the exception of port 21 which is my FTP server which is password and userid protected and running on its own box running a linux variant. If I were to turn that off at the router all ports would then show as Stealth so I'm a little surprised that your router is only showing as Closed. Is your router perhaps configured to reply to pings? If so try disabling this and see if that improves matters. Strike that your router, assuming you're still on 71.243.33.87, isn't responding to pings. Out of curiosity what make and model is the router? SignatureMike Maltby mike.maltby@gmail.com > Mike > OK, what you say makes sense to me. I never stayed on line [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Router providing the protection vs Zone Alarm? Appreciate your > comments. Mike I am still in the process of digesting your comments but it's easy to provide the router info right away. It's late here too (a bit North of Boston) >g>. The router is a "Wireless DSL/Modem Router" by ActionTec, Model GT-704 WG.. I also have the wireless feature set for "ON". BTW, thanks for the feedback. MLD > MLD. > [quoted text clipped - 53 lines] > > Router providing the protection vs Zone Alarm? Appreciate your > > comments. > Hi: > I just noticed that Win ME quit making its automatic daily checkpoints > as of about 1 Jan 2007. Manual restore points can still be set and > system restore seems to work fine. I have a computer at home that developed a similar problem in September (perhaps earlier) that I didn't discover until December. What a surprise when I discovered that there were no recent restore points to restore to! I will have to check on what programs are running (besides Symantec AntiVirus) and report back later. Is there a list of known programs that will keep system restore from making periodic restore points? SignatureIan Shef 805/F6 * These are my personal opinions Raytheon Company * and not those of my employer. PO Box 11337 * Tucson, AZ 85734-1337 * > I will have to check on what programs are running (besides Symantec > AntiVirus) and report back later. Look no further! Personally I'm surprised your system still works. NAV, all versions, is incompatible with Win Me and not much better with most other operating systems. I'm unaware of any other software product that has such a poor reputation and that causes so many problems including totally trashing system restore. This might now be a good time to test that system restore is working correctly other than for the lack of automatic checkpoints. You can do this by performing the following test. a) Create a shortcut on your desktop to a file. b) Create a manual checkpoint Could you create a checkpoint? c) Delete the shortcut d) Restore your PC to the checkpoint you created. Was the shortcut restored? Did you see any error messages? e) Reboot your PC Was the checkpoint retained? SignatureMike Maltby mike.maltby@gmail.com > I have a computer at home that developed a similar problem in > September (perhaps earlier) that I didn't discover until December. [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Is there a list of known programs that will keep system restore from > making periodic restore points? Mike: Did you have any further thoughts on my comments submitted at 12:19 and 12:56? Apparently I did not post them as a response to to the latest message (so therefore they are easily missed). I might add to the poster above, that I too had horror stories until I got AVG antivirus. It so far has seemed to be a good product and has stopped several bad things. I apparently am quite fortunate in that this restore problem only developed a couple days ago, so I can go back to thar point without causing myself a lot of grief. Thanks, John > > I will have to check on what programs are running (besides Symantec > > AntiVirus) and report back later. [quoted text clipped - 27 lines] > > Is there a list of known programs that will keep system restore from > > making periodic restore points? > Did you have any further thoughts on my comments submitted at 12:19 > and 12:56? Yes, have you read them? BTW your posts might have been made at 12:19 and 12:56 but not everybody reading this newsgroup is in the same time zone as yourself or even the same continent <vbg>. SignatureMike Maltby mike.maltby@gmail.com > Mike: > Did you have any further thoughts on my comments submitted at 12:19 [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > developed a couple days ago, so I can go back to thar point without > causing myself a lot of grief. |
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