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Windows Forum / Windows Media / Player / May 2008

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What music and art files upload ?

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G Wiz - 29 Apr 2008 23:37 GMT
Hi:

I'm willing to have any and all answers related, but I'm hoping that someone
from MS can confirm the answers. (The following info is in general terms
because the actual legal situation is complicated and ever changing and
developing).

Here in Canada we are slow to respond to Copyright and general usage rights
for copying media to our PCs.  It seems that good or bad our government has
taken the slow road of looking at the issue from both a protectionist and a
perceived fairness state. As with most lobbyists, there are more players
than seats available. So here I am waiting to see if I can copy and what I
can copy. We are a strange lot here in Canuck land; we have laws that allow
us to download music with P2P and online retailers, but restrictions for
copying do not legalize using hard drives or MP3 players for some personal
use (copying) music or video file sharing . Copies from records, tapes, and
CDs to each other are OK as long as the PC/MP3 player is left out of the
loop. At least that is what the Copyright Board of Canada has informed me.
Basically, no copying of records, tapes, and CD media to the PC/MP3 player .
. . that is until Canada's Justice system makes a decision for or against.

It is because the Music Industry is compensated by paying extra when buying
CDs, Tapes, CD recording media; but not IPods, hard drives, memory cards,
and the like.  It would appear that paid for downloads are OK but even that
is not written in judicial stone.
Interestingly, manufacturers and retailers are, along with the artists,
taking different sides on the issue . . . they often don't agree within
their own groups . . . politics rule . . . unfortunately, it's the old
story, "Be careful what you wish for . . . " , everyone stands to lose.
Fair compensation is not a bad thing when it's fair. If tariffs are added to
the hard drives and memory  . . . problem solved, but for those who don't
use hard drives and memory for music  . . . problem created.

Here's are my questions . . . in the possibility that our judges decide it's
OK to copy to our PC but not upload (with or without our knowledge of the
transmission) . . . I would like to know if Windows Media Player/Center
sends the music file and Album artwork back to either Microsoft, AMG, or any
other recipient.  Or is it simply data that cannot be resurrected as music
and art? This could be an issue.

Also, is there a way to embed copyright or non-copyright credits to Media
Player's active album art if created or copied by one self ?

I am, along with others, doing my part to make the legal system work for the
user as well as the provider. As a former broadcaster, I have been in
contact with various associations and government officials with this
discussion. Thanks for any help.

- As for my comments, please don't flame me with a wrong or right way to go
discussion . . . I know that everyone has an opinion on the matters of
Intellectual Property rights. I'm only trying to separate the mess and I am
only relating this to Media Player. Thanks.

-  I only wish we had shown up at the Boston Tea Party.

G Wiz
Neil Smith [MVP Digital Media] - 30 Apr 2008 23:04 GMT
>Here's are my questions . . . in the possibility that our judges decide it's
>OK to copy to our PC but not upload (with or without our knowledge of the
>transmission) . . . I would like to know if Windows Media Player/Center
>sends the music file and Album artwork back to either Microsoft, AMG, or any
>other recipient.  Or is it simply data that cannot be resurrected as music
>and art? This could be an issue.

I think there is as you noted, a separate copyright issue about the
album artwork other than that granted for the music content.

AFAIK the player never uploads user artwork, although it used to (and
still may sometimes) upload track information if that's not been
provided already by a commercial music provider like AMG.

Like many people, I find it irritating that there doesn't seem to be a
route to get higher quality / size artwork at present, I guess that's
down to the over-restrictive US copyright legislation.

AFAIK you should be able to add your own artwork to the album folders
by adding a folder.jpg containing the intended image, if you happen to
have a better quality image (e.g. from iTunes or AMazon web service)

HTH
Cheers - Neil
------------------------------------------------
Digital Media MVP : 2004-2008
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/mvpfaqs
G Wiz - 01 May 2008 02:19 GMT
Thanks, Neil for your prompt answer.

Is it any wonder why records refuse to die ;-) It seems that every source
has it's own set of rules or a collective set of regulations that have to be
weeded out accordingly.

I know that most people don't care or have not taken the time to find out
the possible repercussions of illegal or incorrect copying. For many, at
least south of my border, it's much simpler. For we Canucks, it's not.  It's
sort of like using a tool without having read the manual. Then one day you
find out the tool won't do what you want it to or you may find out it will
do more. On a really bad day it won't work at all.

As far as music goes . . . the problems are simple compared to graphics and
photos. Unfortunately, one has to hope that credit or ownership is what it
says it is. Often it is not.

I'm still of the group, having been a professional with 29 years hands on
audio and video, both as an operator and Producer/Director, that believes in
some leeway for non-commercial use.  If only for simplicity reasons. I still
buy quality media for enjoyment and I am sure there are plenty of
contributors to support those that require it. Still, I don't write the
rules. And I don't create new technology to replace the current or older
technology.

I have had luck with adding my own album art, but a right click for
properties to show credits would be advantageous and I am not sure how to do
it otherwise in Media Center other than on the original pre-album pasting.
It seems to be an absolute requirement for one to use even a permissive work
so there is need for such a thing on the album art once completed.  I did
find some place in the Advanced Tag Editor and tab 'Pictures' that will
allow some info to be typed. But, I doubt that would do it for others to
access the credit, and to be acceptable need be. I don't know how it works
or what the ramifications are from online stores and providers as far as
giving and accessing credit goes.  I don't see any related online store or
provider copyright info in those tabs. I'm of the belief that fair use in
the States takes care of it, we don't have a fair use ruling in Canada yet
and may never have such a thing like other countries.

If Microsoft and the media providers could make the copyright issue easily
available for all to see and use we would not be guessing. If the
regulations and rules were simplified they could be attached to the files.
Novel idea, don't ya think? I guess that's why "ignorance of the law is no
excuse" takes precedence. I think I know why that law was made.

I sure would prefer a larger album cover upon playback while still keeping
the normal smaller size original (I'm using 202 X 200  pixels most often for
originals . . . but it can vary depending on what I can get). At times I
have taken to photograph my own CD covers then reduced them, Neil. Sometimes
this works better . . . sometimes not if there is a better resolution from
an Internet source, albeit smaller. I also have a new scanner, but have yet
to use it.

Incidentally, Neil, I have taken time to read U.S., Canadian, Aussie,
British, Swiss, and French copyright rulings (briefly of course), and Canada
seems to be the most restrictive for the time being. Some have interpreted
that to not be the case; however, because there are no laws confirmed in
some areas of copying concern . . . it presently leads downloading and
storage open to interpretation and lawyers. Phooey! (Nothing against
lawyers,  just the bundle of unnecessary profitable jargon gunk).  We should
know before the landing on Mars what will be the new rulings for copying,
Media Player included.  That's if all of the appeals cease to keep things at
a crawl.

Thanks Neil, once again for your help.  I hope I have shed some light on the
reality.

- G Wiz

>>Here's are my questions . . . in the possibility that our judges decide
>>it's
[quoted text clipped - 25 lines]
> Digital Media MVP : 2004-2008
> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/mvpfaqs
Neil Smith [MVP Digital Media] - 01 May 2008 21:56 GMT
I appreciate your concerns and thoroughness - this was a topic of
(brief) discussion at a recent MS summit - but as I'm a web developer
I haven't got anything more useful to add from that viewpoint, as the
data isn't usefully accessible for me to make more of it ;-)

Cheers - Neil

>Thanks, Neil for your prompt answer.
>
[quoted text clipped - 94 lines]
>> Digital Media MVP : 2004-2008
>> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/mvpfaqs 
------------------------------------------------
Digital Media MVP : 2004-2008
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/mvpfaqs
 
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