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Windows Forum / Security / Viruses / July 2008Anti Virus Solutions That Use Their Own Boot CD?
Can someone recommend an anti-virus solution that lets you build a boot CD that will inspect the NTFS file system for trojans or viruses without any need to boot the OS on the file system you are inspecting?  SignatureWill >Can someone recommend an anti-virus solution that lets you build a boot CD >that will inspect the NTFS file system for trojans or viruses without any >need to boot the OS on the file system you are inspecting? Thats not going to be too common, because its not a very effective model for ongoing A/V protection. You could probably do something like this by combining together something like BartPE or WindowsPE boot disks with Clamwin so that can you can boot (or even PXE boot) off CD and run Clamwin to scan files on the mounted hard drive. Has Clamwin now gone beyond the mostly email scanning database? I recall that Clam's original purpose had been to look for the types of malware that you would expect to find in the email environment and misused as an all around scanner by many of the open source proponents. It shouldn't be any problem inspecting the files, but affecting them is another matter. >>Can someone recommend an anti-virus solution that lets you build a boot CD >>that will inspect the NTFS file system for trojans or viruses without any [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > you can boot (or even PXE boot) off CD and run Clamwin to scan files > on the mounted hard drive. >>Can someone recommend an anti-virus solution that lets you build a boot CD >>that will inspect the NTFS file system for trojans or viruses without any >>need to boot the OS on the file system you are inspecting? > > Thats not going to be too common, because its not a very effective > model for ongoing A/V protection. Day-to-day protection has to balance many different issues like intrusiveness and performance on a system under use. It's very easy to subvert modern virus checking programs with root kit viruses. The rootkit simply rewrites kernel functions and reports back to the virus checker only the data it wants the checker to see. Booting from a standalone CD is the only approach that guarantees that all files on the file system can be inspected by an OS and application that is not under control of a trojan or rootkit. It would be an extremely good way of checking for hidden files or folders that would otherwise be hidden from view if the rootkit were active. It's a shame if no anti-virus vendor has seen to create such a bootable CD. SignatureWill From: "Will" <westes-usc@noemail.nospam> >>>Can someone recommend an anti-virus solution that lets you build a boot CD >>>that will inspect the NTFS file system for trojans or viruses without any >>>need to boot the OS on the file system you are inspecting? >> Thats not going to be too common, because its not a very effective >> model for ongoing A/V protection. | Day-to-day protection has to balance many different issues like | intrusiveness and performance on a system under use. It's very easy to | subvert modern virus checking programs with root kit viruses. The rootkit | simply rewrites kernel functions and reports back to the virus checker only | the data it wants the checker to see. | Booting from a standalone CD is the only approach that guarantees that all | files on the file system can be inspected by an OS and application that is | not under control of a trojan or rootkit. It would be an extremely good | way of checking for hidden files or folders that would otherwise be hidden | from view if the rootkit were active. | It's a shame if no anti-virus vendor has seen to create such a bootable CD. The problem is by nature a CDROM is Read-Only and thus can't be updated easily. Thus, its signature would go out of date rather rapidly. SignatureDave http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html Multi-AV - http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp A well-made product of the kind I am describing contains a program to create that boot CD on demand, from the latest updates. It's the same model that ERD Commander uses to build new recovery boot CDs, installing different sets of device drivers on each build. If you have a suspect computer, you would go to the "safe" computer, download the latest virus files, then build a new boot CD and use it the same day to do your inspection of the infected computer. SignatureWill > From: "Will" <westes-usc@noemail.nospam> > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > The problem is by nature a CDROM is Read-Only and thus can't be updated easily. Thus, its > signature would go out of date rather rapidly. From: "Will" <westes-usc@noemail.nospam> | A well-made product of the kind I am describing contains a program to create | that boot CD on demand, from the latest updates. | It's the same model that ERD Commander uses to build new recovery boot CDs, | installing different sets of device drivers on each build. | If you have a suspect computer, you would go to the "safe" computer, | download the latest virus files, then build a new boot CD and use it the | same day to do your inspection of the infected computer. That's true. I explain such a concept in using a surrugate PC to download updates for my Multi AV Scanning tool and transferring the Multi AV to a thumb drive (or media, preferrably Read/Write media) and then to an infected PC and boot from a DOS Disk or a DOS disk with NTFS4DOS. Download MULTI_AV.EXE from the URL -- http://www.pctipp.ch/ds/28400/28470/Multi_AV.exe http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp English: http://www.raymond.cc/blog/archives/2008/01/09/scan-your-computer-with-multiple- anti-virus-for-free/ SignatureDave http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html Multi-AV - http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp > From: "Will" <westes-usc@noemail.nospam> > [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > English: > http://www.raymond.cc/blog/archives/2008/01/09/scan-your-computer-with-multiple- anti-virus-for-free/ The idea of combining multiple anti-virus programs to one integrated environment is nice. You would think someone would have figured out how to sell that as a subscription service and then send out a new CD every two weeks and charge for it? I would gladly pay and do not have the time to put these kinds of packages together and then constantly update them. SignatureWill From: "Will" <westes-usc@noemail.nospam> | The idea of combining multiple anti-virus programs to one integrated | environment is nice. You would think someone would have figured out how to | sell that as a subscription service and then send out a new CD every two | weeks and charge for it? I would gladly pay and do not have the time to | put these kinds of packages together and then constantly update them. I provide the Multi AV Scanning Tool as CareWare. If you find the tool useful and it has helped you -- Don't donate to me, donaye to charity. :-) SignatureDave http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html Multi-AV - http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp >>> Can someone recommend an anti-virus solution that lets you build a >>> boot CD that will inspect the NTFS file system for trojans or [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > It's a shame if no anti-virus vendor has seen to create such a > bootable CD. Norton and, I think McAfee both allow that, actually. The only gotcha is that only PART of the inspection can be done that way. Since virus profiles are constantly changing, it will still have to access the drive to get those signatures. But, it's still a very reliable way of handling infections on PCs. A CD, once written and its session closed, is not going to be affected by any virus or malware of any kind. So, yes, the do it with the exception of using the signature files on the hard drive. I can't understand why everyone is saying no one does it; I just pulled out my CD to make sure I'm right, and, well, I'm right! <g>. Toss it in the drive, boot from it, the AV process automagically starts, and off we go. It's not new; been this way for a long, long time. > >>> Can someone recommend an anti-virus solution that lets you build a > >>> boot CD that will inspect the NTFS file system for trojans or [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > Toss it in the drive, boot from it, the AV process automagically starts, > and off we go. It's not new; been this way for a long, long time. What you are describing is a way to run a virus checker from a CD after booting the OS on the affected system. The problem with that approach is that a rootkit virus can alter the operating system calls to disguise what is on the disk. The c:\windows folder might contain a subdirectory named evilvirustoolkit, but as long as you boot your OS under the control of the rootkit that folder stays invisible to every application on the system, including your virus checker. What I was asking for was a virus checker that boots from *its own operating system embedded on a CD*. That way there is no involvement with infected OS code on the system being inspected. SignatureWill >> >>> Can someone recommend an anti-virus solution that lets you build a >> >>> boot CD that will inspect the NTFS file system for trojans or [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > What you are describing is a way to run a virus checker from a CD after > booting the OS on the affected system. Re-read what Twayne wrote: "Toss it in the drive, boot from it, the AV process automagically starts". to me that means booting from the CD, not booting the OS installed on the machine. /Al > The problem with that approach is > that a rootkit virus can alter the operating system calls to disguise what [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > system embedded on a CD*. That way there is no involvement with infected > OS code on the system being inspected. >>> >>> Can someone recommend an anti-virus solution that lets you build a >>> >>> boot CD that will inspect the NTFS file system for trojans or [quoted text clipped - 38 lines] > process automagically starts". to me that means booting from the CD, not > booting the OS installed on the machine. I guess I can go buy one and find out. I did read what he wrote, but somehow thought he didn't mean it as he literally said it. SignatureWill >> The problem with that approach is >> that a rootkit virus can alter the operating system calls to disguise [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >> infected >> OS code on the system being inspected. Both Avira and Kaspersky have a free boot CD scanner available. http://www.free-av.com/en/tools/12/avira_antivir_rescue_system.html http://ftp.kaspersky.com/devbuilds/RescueDisk/ Signature---- Crosspost, do not multipost http://www.blakjak.demon.co.uk/mul_crss.htm How to ask a question http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 > Can someone recommend an anti-virus solution that lets you build a boot CD > that will inspect the NTFS file system for trojans or viruses without any > need to boot the OS on the file system you are inspecting? That's great stuff. We have a winner. Thanks! SignatureWill > Both Avira and Kaspersky have a free boot CD scanner available. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> that will inspect the NTFS file system for trojans or viruses without any >> need to boot the OS on the file system you are inspecting? The Kaspersky boot CD simply shuts down the computer when it gets to the graphics display. It has a "safe" mode that looks like a simple bash shell, and I have no idea what to do there. Clearly an experimental project for them.... The Avira boots, but it looks like a very simple tool. SignatureWill > Both Avira and Kaspersky have a free boot CD scanner available. > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > that will inspect the NTFS file system for trojans or viruses without any > > need to boot the OS on the file system you are inspecting? Haven't seen that behavior on any machines I've run it on. Simple means nothing, as long as it accomplishes the task it's designed to do, which is scan for nasties. Signature---- Crosspost, do not multipost http://www.blakjak.demon.co.uk/mul_crss.htm How to ask a question http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555375 > The Kaspersky boot CD simply shuts down the computer when it gets to the > graphics display. It has a "safe" mode that looks like a simple bash [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > any >> > need to boot the OS on the file system you are inspecting? |
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