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Windows Forum / Windows Vista / Hardware / May 2008eSATA Drive Question
I need to get a new external HDD for my laptop and I'm thinking of getting an eSATA drive. My question is this: Can any HDD be turned into an eSATA drive by housing it an enclosure which has an eSATA port or is there something special about SATA drives? I'm not sure whether I should buy an already enclosed SATA or buy the HDD and the enclosure separately (cheaper option). Thanks for your help. On 05/05/2008 in message <O7GdnX4gPtmzW4PVnZ2dnUVZ_uCdnZ2d@internode> pbl wrote: >I need to get a new external HDD for my laptop and I'm thinking of getting >an eSATA drive. My question is this: Can any HDD be turned into an eSATA >drive by housing it an enclosure which has an eSATA port or is there >something special about SATA drives? I'm not sure whether I should buy an >already enclosed SATA or buy the HDD and the enclosure separately (cheaper >option). Thanks for your help. A good external enclosure is the ANTEC MX-1 EC, it's on Amazon UK at: http://www.amazon.co.uk/ANTEC-COOLED-ENCLOSURE-ESATA-VERSION/dp/B000PJ4JDK It does USB2 and eSATA and has a built in fan for cooling, you need to add your own HD. You also need an eSATA connection on your laptop so make sure you do (I would think they are rare on laptops). Whether or not eSATA will work depends on how your computer is set up. If you want hot plugging you need to have your SATA ports set up in the BIOS as AHCI. If they are set up as ATA or Normal or Off (depending on the terminology used in your BIOS) then you won't get hot plugging, although turning the PC off, plugging the eSATA drive in and then turning the PC on again should allow you to see the drive. Changing to AHCI on an already installed system is not trivial, although it can be done. If you want to do it then post again and people will point you to the various guides that exist. Don't just change your BIOS settings whatever you do or you may not be able to boot your PC! PS - You should set Windows mail to post in plain text to newsgroups.  SignatureJeff Gaines Damerham Hampshire UK > On 05/05/2008 in message <O7GdnX4gPtmzW4PVnZ2dnUVZ_uCdnZ2d@internode> pbl > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > PS - You should set Windows mail to post in plain text to newsgroups. I second the recommendation of the ANTEC MX-1 enclosure. I have one on my desk and it keeps the drive cooler than the ones inside my tower and will work with SATA drives up to 750Gb. I also found that hot plugging worked on my computer with the sata ports set to IDE mode. I am using a gigabyte GA-P35-DS4 motherboard with Vista 64. >>bl" <pblnews@internode.on.net> wrote in message >>I need to get a new external HDD for my laptop and I'm thinking of getting [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >>already enclosed SATA or buy the HDD and the enclosure separately >> >>cheaper option). Thanks for your help. > A good external enclosure is the ANTEC MX-1 EC, it's on Amazon UK at: > http://www.amazon.co.uk/ANTEC-COOLED-ENCLOSURE-ESATA-VERSION/dp/B000PJ4JDK [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > PS - You should set Windows mail to post in plain text to newsgroups. pbl: First of all, we're assuming that your laptop supports SATA capability, right? The laptop presently contains a SATA HDD, does it not? Because if it doesn't go no further with this... Anyway, assuming that your system does support SATA capability... I'm not sure where Jeff is getting his information re achieving "hot-plugging" ("hot-swapping") capability for SATA HDDs. It is true that this capability must be supported by the motherboard (together with the HDD itself) but you would be hard-pressed to find any motherboard or HDD produced during the past few years having SATA-II capability that does not support "hot-plugging"/"hot-swapping". It is *not* necessary to set your BIOS to AHCI mode as it involves SATA HDDs to achieve this capability. As a matter of fact it could be counter-productive to do so in many instances. Assuming we're not dealing with a RAID configuration, in general the BIOS "default" setting for detecting a SATA HDD in the system will work just fine, e.g., the IDE setting or some similar label (if differs from motherboard to motherboard). Assuming your system does contain a SATA HDD and it's functioning just fine you should be OK with the present BIOS settings. Understand that an eSATA port basically provides a more secure connection than a "normal" SATA port. The latter provides "hot-plugging"/"hot-swapping" capability just as well as an eSATA port as long as the system supports that capability as described above. Usually a better-shielded cable is used with an eSATA connection since the SATA HDD will be used as an external device and the heavier shielding provides add'l security re data transfer. Frankly, we've never run into any problems re data corruption/data loss even using non-shielded SATA data cables. No doubt the Antec external enclosure Jeff recommends will do the job just fine. It is well, as he suggests, to have an enclosure that provides USB capability as well. Virtually every SATA enclosure coming on the market has both types of connectivity. And virtually all of them are equipped with an eSATA port rather than the "normal" port so that's no longer even a consideration. All things considered, it's probably best to purchase the drive & the enclosure separately. While I'm not sure there's any great savings any more to do this (at least here in the U.S. where the commercial SATA external enclosures w/drive have fallen dramatically in price), you can select the precise SATA HDD you want and should the need arise, find it reasonably easy to uninstall it from the enclosure and install it in your laptop. Take a look at newegg for their various offerings. You would probably want one that accommodates 2 1/2" drives. There's also another way to go for you to consider. Coincidentally I just posted the following message in another newsgroup that bears on your situation... Another consideration would be to purchase an ExpressCard with an eSATA port so that you could connect a SATA external HDD to that device. See, for example, http://www.meritline.com/1x-e-sata2-port-pcmcia-expresscard.htm This assumes, of course, that your notebook is equipped with an ExpressCard slot. If it has the older CardBus (PCMCIA) slot then you would need the latter type of device. They come with both a "normal" SATA port as well as an eSATA port. Do a Google search on "Cardbus with SATA port" for various models. The great advantage of the SATA interface over the USB interface is data transfer speed. Considerably superior to USB. Also, (at least in theory) with the ExpressCard device, the external SATA HDD connected to that device is bootable assuming the drive contains a bootable OS obtained via a disk-cloning program such as the Acronis or Casper programs. We're still experimenting with that aspect. But we have never been able to achieve "bootability" with the CardBus device. Anna >I'm not sure where Jeff is getting his information re achieving >"hot-plugging" ("hot-swapping") capability for SATA HDDs. It is true that >this capability must be supported by the motherboard (together with the >HDD itself) but you would be hard-pressed to find any motherboard or HDD >produced during the past few years having SATA-II capability that does not >support "hot-plugging"/"hot-swapping". I guess I must have had the only one in existence :-( It was SATA 1 from memory and I had to convert to AHCI to get hot plugging. Good to know it's easier with newer boards / SATA 2. SignatureJeff Gaines Damerham Hampshire UK They are not rare. They are just SATA cables and you have to be sure that you get I to I or L to I as needed. > On 05/05/2008 in message <O7GdnX4gPtmzW4PVnZ2dnUVZ_uCdnZ2d@internode> pbl > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > > PS - You should set Windows mail to post in plain text to newsgroups. On 05/05/2008 in message >They are not rare. They are just SATA cables and you have to be sure that >you get I to I or L to I as needed. Assuming you are responding to my point about eSATA connections on a laptop I would certainly be interested to know which laptops have them. My Lenovo R50e certainly doesn't! SignatureJeff Gaines Damerham Hampshire UK For laptops without a eSATA port but with an ExpressCard/34 slot, there are several adaptors like: http://www.iogear.com/product/GPS702e3W6/ or http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16839113007 For laptops with eSATA onboard see for example the ASUS C90S (click on the specs link below the thumbnails): http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/spec/spec_C90S.asp Or if you prefer the specs on the ASUS site (I hate the slowness of the ASUS site some days): http://www.asus.com/products.aspx?l1=5&l2=141&l3=536&l4=0&model=1641&modelmenu=2 There are some others but all I know of are gaming laptops so far. I have not tried booting off a hard drive connected to one of these onboard ports like on the C90S because I don't have a laptop so equipped but it should work. I know it is more of a problem booting off of a hard drive connected to an eSATA ExpressCard adaptor, however. > On 05/05/2008 in message > <4CCD1F15-292F-40E4-8404-B9A61AAEBADE@microsoft.com> Colin Barnhorst [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > laptop I would certainly be interested to know which laptops have them. My > Lenovo R50e certainly doesn't! >> Assuming you are responding to my point about eSATA connections on a >> laptop I would certainly be interested to know which laptops have them. >> My Lenovo R50e certainly doesn't! > For laptops without a eSATA port but with an ExpressCard/34 slot, there > are several adaptors like: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > work. I know it is more of a problem booting off of a hard drive > connected to an eSATA ExpressCard adaptor, however. Jeff & Colin: Notebooks equipped with an eSATA port are indeed a rare commodity. To the best of my knowledge ASUS is the only major player that has released a few models with an eSATA port. I'm not aware of Acer, Dell, Gateway, Compaq, Sony, etc. having *any* models with an eSATA port. If they're out there, they're few & far between, that's for sure. More's the pity, of course. Some time ago I had occasion to work with one of the ASUS notebooks that came equipped with an eSATA port (I can't recall the model #) and we were able to boot from that port with a SATA HDD that had been the recipient of the cloned contents of the notebook's internal HDD. That was no surprise, of course, since every eSATA port that we've worked with on various desktop PCs have proven to be "bootable". (For that matter it really makes *no* difference whether the port is a "normal" SATA one or an eSATA one). A bootable external SATA HDD connected to either type of port will boot. Obviously we're talking about motherboards that support SATA capability. We have never been able to boot from a CardBus (a/k/a PCMCIA) equipped with either a SATA or eSATA port. We've concluded that it's just not a bootable device. As I mentioned in my previous post, we're still experimenting with various ExpressCard devices to determine their potential "bootability". Every one we've come across is equipped with an eSATA port and they're supposed to provide boot capability. However, our experience has been mixed to date although we were able to boot from a SATA HDD connected to an Addonics eSATA ExpressCard. Colin, if you've had any direct experience with an eSATA ExpressCard I'd like to hear about it. Anna We had this conversation a month or more ago. Remember? I don't have any new reason to revisit it. >>> Assuming you are responding to my point about eSATA connections on a >>> laptop I would certainly be interested to know which laptops have them. [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > like to hear about it. > Anna >>>> Assuming you are responding to my point about eSATA connections on a >>>> laptop I would certainly be interested to know which laptops have them. >>>> My Lenovo R50e certainly doesn't! >>> For laptops without a eSATA port but with an ExpressCard/34 slot, there >>> are several adaptors like: [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] >>> but it should work. I know it is more of a problem booting off of a >>> hard drive connected to an eSATA ExpressCard adaptor, however. >> Jeff & Colin: >> Notebooks equipped with an eSATA port are indeed a rare commodity. To >> [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >> like to hear about it. >> Anna > We had this conversation a month or more ago. Remember? I don't have any > > new reason to revisit it. Colin: No, I really don't recall our "conversation a month or more ago". But do I detect a note of annoyance in your response? If so, may I ask why? Anna >>>>> Assuming you are responding to my point about eSATA connections on a >>>>> laptop I would certainly be interested to know which laptops have [quoted text clipped - 70 lines] > detect a note of annoyance in your response? If so, may I ask why? > Anna Perhaps because (some people) have limited patience and perseverance (old school values)? (Usually it's the young-ins who have this limitation :-). No annoyance. The thread went on and on and explored all the ins and outs of booting and installing Windows with BIOS changes, etc. There just isn't anything new I have to add. Most of the dialog was between you and another fella and I mostly listened in. >>>>> Assuming you are responding to my point about eSATA connections on a >>>>> laptop I would certainly be interested to know which laptops have [quoted text clipped - 60 lines] > detect a note of annoyance in your response? If so, may I ask why? > Anna >>>> Jeff & Colin: >>>> Notebooks equipped with an eSATA port are indeed a rare commodity. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] >>>> >>>> I'd like to hear about it. >>>> Anna >>> We had this conversation a month or more ago. Remember? I don't have >>> any new reason to revisit it. >> Colin: >> No, I really don't recall our "conversation a month or more ago". But do >> I detect a note of annoyance in your response? If so, may I ask why? >> Anna > No annoyance. The thread went on and on and explored all the ins and outs > of booting and installing Windows with BIOS changes, etc. There just > isn't anything new I have to add. Most of the dialog was between you and > another fella and I mostly listened in. Colin: Well, I'm glad to hear that. Anyway, I am interested in your experience (or for that matter with anyone's direct experience) as it pertains to using an ExpressCard (either the 34mm or 54mm variety) particularly with reference as to whether a SATA HDD connected to that device can be bootable. Anna I am having an eSATA detection problem with my computer. recently installed a new motherboard, and an add on eSATA host controller card ,(This uses the jMicron JMB363 chip)- this card is plugged into the pci express x 4 slot. Anyway, I downloaded and installed the drivers, I see no problems/conflicts with the host controller when I look at the hardware manager in windows XP, it says the device is working properly. Unfortunately, it never detects the external SATA when I plug it in. However, if I plug it into USB, the drive is detected no problem. When I plug this drive into my other computer it appears to work fine (The eSATA is on the motherboard and I am using Vista Home premium on this computer). It would be nice to use the speed of the SATA during backups. Any suggestions? My system config: Windows XP SP3, ASUS P5K-VM motherboard, Core 2 duo E4500, 2GB ram, Kingwin PCI express to 2 SATA II and 1 PATA host controller model U2PCI-2. I am using is a Thermaltake Silver River Duo A2396 hard drive enclosure with a 320GB Western digital SATA II. SignatureJn 3.16 > No annoyance. The thread went on and on and explored all the ins and outs > of booting and installing Windows with BIOS changes, etc. There just isn't [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] > > detect a note of annoyance in your response? If so, may I ask why? > > Anna >I am having an eSATA detection problem with my computer. recently >installed [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > with > a 320GB Western digital SATA II. earlgrey9: Following bootup with the external SATA HDD connected, access Device Manager and right-click on "Disk drives" and then "Scan for hardware changes". That might do the trick of detecting the drive. If not... I take it your SATA HDD is in an external enclosure that has both SATA-to-SATA connectivity as well as the USB interface, right? And the enclosure's SATA port is an eSATA port, right? I'm assuming that if you would *directly* connect the SATA HDD to one of the motherboard's SATA connectors there would be no problem. (Obviously the drive's source of power would come from a direct connection to your system's power supply). Anyway, since the external SATA HDD works while connected to an eSATA port on another PC we can assume there's no problem either with the drive nor the external enclosure. So that, of course, leaves the SATA controller card. We'll assume that you correctly connected the card & its drivers. What's the make & model of the card? Have you checked with the card's manufacturer (assuming there's a website available) to see if they could shed any light on the problem? Any chance of installing the card in your other machine to see what happens there? As an aside...over the years we've run into so many incompatibility problems with these SATA PCI controller cards that we're loathe to recommend them as a general proposition. Assuming we're dealing with a desktop machine we usually recommend an eSATA adapter along these lines... http://www.provantage.com/scripts/cart.dll/x/0/rtspecs/STRT0HA (That particular model is equipped with an internal power plug so that power to the SATA HDD can be supplied through the system's own PS. But there are other models that just have the SATA or eSATA port and power would be supplied through the external enclosure such as the one you have). What about trying another PCI slot? Anna Thank you for your thoughtful consideration :) I usually don't do forums cause I can usually figure things out :) There was some other troubleshooting stuff I did, but did not want to be too long winded in my first post to this group :) I did try going into the device manager > SCSI and Raid Controllers> right click on Jmicron JMB36X controller> Scan for hardware changes. This did not work. I tried unplugging the eSATA cable and replugging it in to get autodetect to see it. No dice. -My SATA is in an external enclosure, with its own power supply. Looks like a regular ac adapter. -The enclosure has a switch and 2 connectors. 1 eSATA and 1 usb 2.0. Just flip switch to eSATA or USB and plug in the corresponding cable. -earlier I had the problematic mothrboard installed in my Vista machine and detection was ok under Vista, but flaky after vista SP1 was installed. I decided to buy another with a built in eSATA controller, thinking there might be a potential conflict between the onboard sata ports and the Kingwin controller card. Getting back to the current problem, I tried downloading drivers from 3 sources. 1. Kingwin, 2. JMicron, 3. ASUS (I downloaded the driver for the motherboard that had the built in eSATA since it has the same JMicron chip and would likely use the same driver and interrupts. ) None of these drivers worked. I could get the computer to see the card, it would say "This device is working properly" but the card would not see a drive connected. -I remembered on some computers I've built in the past, a message just after POST that said something like "press F _ to load 3rd party Raid drivers" But apparenty I don't have that option for this motherboard. If I try running the raid setup software from windows XP, it says no raid drives detected. -If I go into BIOS setup, I only see the local SATA drives. -I only have one pci express x4 slot, the other express slot is x16 for the display adapter so I am stuck with this slot. -Here's another stray thought I had, if I bought a SATA card with eSATA ports, and disabled the onboard SATA controller, would I have better luck? What do you think? I think I am agreeing with your statement on compatability problems and pci cards. I will look at the link you gave me... Thanks! Jn 3.16 > >I am having an eSATA detection problem with my computer. recently > >installed [quoted text clipped - 64 lines] > > Anna >Thank you for your thoughtful consideration :) I usually don't do forums >cause I can usually figure things out :) [quoted text clipped - 117 lines] >> >> Anna Here's what I've done: 1) I have settings in the BIOS to allow me to run SATA drives in either RAID-mode, AHCI-mode, or IDE-mode. I chose to use IDE emulation, when I was unable to install XP in RAID mode without using the floppy I received with my computer which contained the RAID driver, since my machine has no floppy drive. In fact, my Intel motherboard doesn't even have an option to use a floppy -- no floppy controller or connector on the motherboard. 2) I also installed Vista in IDE-emulation mode, and have had little trouble since, other than the eSATA drive disappearing after running for an hour or more. Both SATA drives (the internal as well as the external) are running at DMA 6. And I can run Windows completely from the eSATA drive, if I choose. There is a small pause each time I access the eSATA when running it as boot device, but the pause is almost imperceptible. Don't know if this will help, but I hope it does. Donald L McDaniel Please reply to the original newsgroup and thread. ======================================================== >I am having an eSATA detection problem with my computer. recently installed >a new motherboard, and an add on eSATA host controller card ,(This uses the >jMicron JMB363 chip)- this card is plugged into the pci express x 4 slot. >Anyway, I downloaded and installed the drivers, I see no problems/conflicts I assume the driver you downloaded and installed was not U2PCI-2.exe, because it contains the driver for the SiI 3x12 chip. >with the host controller when I look at the hardware manager in windows XP, >it says the device is working properly. Unfortunately, it never detects the [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >I am using is a Thermaltake Silver River Duo A2396 hard drive enclosure with >a 320GB Western digital SATA II. Hi, I think you will find that this is a known issue with ASUS MB's. A workaround is available at this link, http://vip.asus.com/forum/view.aspx?id=20070724045720062&board_id=1&model=P5W+DH +Deluxe&page=1&SLanguage=en-us Good luck. > I am having an eSATA detection problem with my computer. recently > installed [quoted text clipped - 114 lines] >> > detect a note of annoyance in your response? If so, may I ask why? >> > Anna > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Good luck. I reviewed the hardware setup of "earlgrey9", and he has the following. These are on the P5K-VM motherboard. ICH9 4 SATA ports, manual is unclear about AHCI support (bios options not mentioned) Jmicron JMB20368 PCI Express to PATA Host Controller (controls one PATA connector on motherboard) He has added an extra card. PCI Express based. He doesn't say what the card is. It could be based on a JMB20366 for example A JMB20366 would give 2 PATA and 2 SATA ports. The different chips might be covered by a 2036X driver. This Startech card is an example. http://www.startech.com/item-download/PEXSAT2IDE2-2-Port-SATA-II-and-2-Port-IDE- PCI-Express-Controller-Card.aspx The Startech manual says to press <control-J> while in the BIOS, to access the RAID BIOS on the Startech card. In there, you may see the ESATA drive being detected. (You shouldn't have to touch the single drive, or set it up as a RAID volume. Looking in the RAID BIOS screen, if you can get there, is purely to see whether the BIOS sees the drive.) Startech seems to use a RAID driver for the card, so it is possible that AHCI mode and a non-RAID prepared drive, would be picked up by that driver. In some previous posts, people have been using ACHI drivers to get hot-plug working on SATA. Since Jmicron doesn't offer such a thing, either they expect it to come from the Microsoft default driver, or via the Jmicron RAID driver. And I don't know of a way to verify what capabilities exist with either of those drivers. The Startech driver package has a "jraid.sys" and that might be the driver associated with the ESATA port. So, some more details, such as the PCI Express card used, the chip number if it is visible, and what driver files are associated with the ESATA port, might shed more light on the problem of "hot-plug" failure. Paul I need to get a new external HDD for my laptop and I'm thinking of getting an eSATA drive. My question is this: Can any HDD be turned into an eSATA drive by housing it an enclosure which has an eSATA port or is there something special about SATA drives? I'm not sure whether I should buy an already enclosed SATA or buy the HDD and the enclosure separately (cheaper option). Thanks for your help. --- Thanks very much Jeff, Anna, Robert, Collin & Bill for your replies. Just for clarification - I have a Dell XPS M1530. It has an internal 200 GB 7200 RPM SATA drive but it does not not have an eSATA. I have an ExpressCard/54 slot. It will fit a 34 mm ExpressCard but it doesn't feel secure. There are a few 54mm eSATA II ExpressCards including a Belkin model. For speed and size I am after a 3.5" drive and using it in my computer would not be an option. I need to write/record music in real time via a firewire audio interface and prefer to get it away from my system drive. At present I have this USB drive: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Western-Digital-Elements-500GB-External/dp/B000OS54TA/re f=pd_sbs_ce_title_4 but unfortunately it is really SLOW and is only useful for backing up. Thanks for the heads-up on the ANTEC cooled enclosure. If anyone has a suggestion for a 3.5" SATA drive to go with it I am all ears. >Thanks for the heads-up on the ANTEC cooled enclosure. If anyone has a >suggestion for a 3.5" SATA drive to go with it I am all ears. The hardware groups feel the most reliable one currently is the Samsung SpinPoint HD501LJ 500GB SATAII. Do not under any circumstances get a HD that is made in China, they are proving very unreliable. SignatureJeff Gaines Damerham Hampshire UK > I need to get a new external HDD for my laptop and I'm thinking of getting > an eSATA drive. My question is this: Can any HDD be turned into an eSATA [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > Thanks for the heads-up on the ANTEC cooled enclosure. If anyone has a > suggestion for a 3.5" SATA drive to go with it I am all ears. pbl: First of all, I think you are wise to consider an external enclosure to house a SATA HDD that provides SATA-to-SATA connectivity to your laptop via the ExpressCard slot. And since your ExpressCard slot is the 54mm variety it will, as you know, accommodate the 34mm variety of ExpressCards as well. Virtually all SATA external enclosures on the market today are equipped with an eSATA port. And most of these external enclosures also are equipped with a USB interface as well. The beauty of having SATA-to-SATA connectivity is really twofold... 1. Data transfer will be considerably speedier than the USB interface. Significantly so since for all practical purposes the system treats the SATA HDD (even while it's "external" to the system) as an internal HDD. 2. The external SATA HDD is potentially bootable, assuming that (for example) you cloned the contents of your internal (boot) HDD to the external SATA HDD through a disk-cloning program, e.g., Acronis True Image, Symantec's Ghost, or our favorite, Casper 4. From your description of your objective as to how you'll be using the external SATA HDD I realize you're not particularly interested in that drive being potentially bootable, but it is an important element for you to consider possibly for the future. At least in theory, an ExpressCard with an eSATA port should serve as a bootable device. So far our experience with a few of them has been erratic. In one case (an Addonics card) we could consistently boot with a connected SATA HDD. In two other cards we could not do so (at least on a consistent basis). I have to add that I've only worked with the 34mm variety of ExpressCards in this area and *not* any 54mm card. I would be *most* interested in your experience with your Dell so if you do go that route I would be really appreciative of learning of your experience, particularly the "bootability" aspect. Have you heard anything particular about the Belkin card you mention? BTW, for others who might be interested, our experience with the older CardBus (PCMCIA) cards equipped with a SATA or eSATA port led us to conclude that these devices did *not* provide boot capability although they were quite useful in terms of fast data transfer. Incidentally, unless you're dead-set on using an external SATA HDD as a storage device and not a bootable device, you may want to consider a SATA external enclosure that accommodates a 2 1/2" SATA HDD rather than a 3 1/2" drive. The advantage here is that should the need ever arise where for one reason or another you wanted to replace your laptop's internal HDD, you could use the SATA HDD installed in the external enclosure. Again, we're assuming it would be a bootable device. There might be, however, a slight decrease in data transfer speed re the external SATA HDD as compared with a 3 1/2" HDD, so if your primary or exclusive interest is using the external HDD as a storage device, then the 3 1/2" drive would be more appropriate for your needs. I really don't have any special recommendations for a SATA external enclosure. We've worked with a few of them (having both SATA or eSATA ports) and they've all pretty well done the job. Heretofore our recommendation was generally to purchase the enclosure and the HDD separately but we note in the past year or so prices of the "one-piece" commercial units have fallen so dramatically that you might want to consider purchasing one of those units. I would add that we prefer an enclosure that has the ON-OFF switch and accompanying LED on the front of the unit facing the user. We find that much more convenient, but this is just a personal preference. Anyway, take a look at the newegg offerings. Anna >> I need to get a new external HDD for my laptop and I'm thinking of >> getting an eSATA drive. My question is this: Can any HDD be turned into [quoted text clipped - 86 lines] > just a personal preference. Anyway, take a look at the newegg offerings. > Anna Thank you very much Anna for your detailed response. I will most likley go for a 3.5" drive for the additional speed. But I'm unfortunately having a battle with Dell at the moment about the M1530 display and because they are being terribly uncooperative they are processing a refund. This is a huge diappouintment becuase I love this new laptop except for the crappy grainy WSVGA display. I expect I will be repurchasing a similar if not the same laptop when the problem gets sorted but in the meantime I will be going back to my old WinXP laptop with a PCMCIA port. I know you can purchase PCMCIA to eSATA adapter but would this work as I recall your first bit of advice to be about laptop compatibility with SATA drives?? Regarding the Belkin card, I don't know anything special about it. It is a 54 mm card and I haven't found too many ot them. Yes the 34 mm cards will fit but not snuggly and although you can get a plastic extender for the 34 mm variety but I have not had much success with them. Thanks again for your help. pbl. >>> I need to get a new external HDD for my laptop and I'm thinking of >>> getting an eSATA drive. My question is this: Can any HDD be turned into [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >>> Thanks for the heads-up on the ANTEC cooled enclosure. If anyone has a >>> suggestion for a 3.5" SATA drive to go with it I am all ears. >> pbl: >> First of all, I think you are wise to consider an external enclosure to [quoted text clipped - 61 lines] >> offerings. >> Anna > Thank you very much Anna for your detailed response. I will most likley go > for a 3.5" drive for the additional speed. But I'm unfortunately having a [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > pbl. pbl: Sorry to hear about your not-so-good experience with the Dell XPS M1530. I haven't worked with that machine but I noticed it has garnered favorable reviews by & large. Ironically (at least from your experience) one of features of that laptop the reviewers particularly liked was the screen display. One never knows, does one? BTW, as you probably know Dell has come out with a larger (17" screen) version - the XPS M1730. Haven't seen or used one myself but a friend tells me that one of his friends (having a primary interest in gaming) has one and virtually swoons over it. But it's expensive - in the $4,000 range I believe. As long as you're going back (at least in the meantime) to a CardBus-equipped laptop or notebook you can use a CardBus (PCMCIA) card with either a SATA or eSATA port. Most of them actually come with two ports - generally eSATA, but as a practical matter it really doesn't matter whether they're SATA or eSATA ports. eSATA is considered a more secure type of data-cable connection and usually the SATA data cable equipped with an eSATA connector is more heavily shielded than the usual SATA connector data cable. So all things considered, I suppose the eSATA port equipped CardBus would be the one to go with, especially since there's really no significant price differential involved based on the last time I checked. Take a look at... http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Description=Car dbus+with+SATA+port&x=19&y=32 and you can also do a Google search on "CardBus with SATA port". Understand - as I previously mentioned - that you will not be able to boot from a SATA HDD (containing a potentially bootable OS) connected to the CardBus device, regardless of whether it has a SATA or eSATA port. At least we were never able to achieve that capability with a number of different makes & models of CardBus SATA cards that we used. As you've indicated I guess that's not an important consideration for you but it is a capability we're particularly interested in so that a comprehensive backup system would be available to a laptop/notebook in a relatively simple & straightforward way. We're hopeful the ExpressCard devices will work out to achieve that capability. I haven't really worked to any appreciable degree with 54mm ExpressCards, although the few times we used a 34mm ExpressCard inserted in the 54mm ExpressCard module we didn't experience any problems. I believe there are adapters now available that allow a CardBus-PCMCIA card to be used in an ExpressCard module but I've had no experience with them. But that is not what you were referring to as an "extender", were you? What would be the function of the plastic extender you mentioned for 34mm ExpressCards. They provide a more secure fit inside the 54mm module? And have you actually used the Belkin ExpressCard? For what purpose? Anna As Anna says, you will not have a bootable external drive but you will have a fast external drive. The throughput will be six times usb or firewire, so go for it. >>>> I need to get a new external HDD for my laptop and I'm thinking of >>>> getting an eSATA drive. My question is this: Can any HDD be turned into [quoted text clipped - 158 lines] > And have you actually used the Belkin ExpressCard? For what purpose? > Anna > As Anna says, you will not have a bootable external drive but you will > have a fast external drive. The throughput will be six times usb or [quoted text clipped - 162 lines] >> And have you actually used the Belkin ExpressCard? For what purpose? >> Anna The bootability is not an issue right now. Although it is an interesting possibility that I hadn't thought of with an ExpressCard. When I get my new Laptop I will certainly experiment with this. If it works it may be possible to set up a dual boot scenario - Vista and WinXP or even trebble boot with Linux. That would be a lot of fun. But I would need a large eSATA drive. Can you go to 1TB with eSATA? Is there a physical limit that ExpressCard or PCMCIA (my only current option) can recognise? Yes. Forget about anything but SATA. The day of IDE drives is over. I can guarantee that you will not be able to boot Windows with the current eSATA ExpressCards so before you buy a new laptop make sure it has an integrated eSATA port if possible. They should become more common so take your time. >> As Anna says, you will not have a bootable external drive but you will >> have a fast external drive. The throughput will be six times usb or [quoted text clipped - 175 lines] > eSATA drive. Can you go to 1TB with eSATA? Is there a physical limit that > ExpressCard or PCMCIA (my only current option) can recognise? > Yes. > [quoted text clipped - 184 lines] >> eSATA drive. Can you go to 1TB with eSATA? Is there a physical limit that >> ExpressCard or PCMCIA (my only current option) can recognise? Hi Colin - I reckon an integrated eSATA port as standard is a while away and possibly only on high end machines. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't it limited to connecting external drives compared with the multiuse characteristics of say USB or firewire. But I had another thought - I don't know about other laptops but for the Dell range the internal drive is located in a caddy that effectively slides in a slot on the side of the chassis making it very easy to replace (simply undo one screw). I could have a back up of my entire disk on a separate 2.5" drive or another OS to boot to or both. Thanks for your help. Integrated eSATA ports are beginning to show up on laptops and the problem of course is scarce real estate. But the OP's question was specific to a bootable port and right now it would have to be an integrated eSATA port or nothing at all. >> Yes. >> [quoted text clipped - 200 lines] > > Thanks for your help. >> Hi Colin >>>> The bootability is not an issue right now. Although it is an [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >>>> there a physical limit that ExpressCard or PCMCIA (my only current >>>> option) can recognise? - I reckon an integrated eSATA port as standard is a while away >> and possibly only on high end machines. Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't >> it limited to connecting external drives compared with the multiuse [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> >> Thanks for your help. > Integrated eSATA ports are beginning to show up on laptops and the problem > of course is scarce real estate. But the OP's question was specific to a > bootable port and right now it would have to be an integrated eSATA port > or nothing at all. Just one point of clarification... It is not the eSATA port that determines potential "bootability" but the direct SATA-to-SATA connection that's controlling in this situation. Should an external SATA HDD be connected to even a "normal" SATA (non-eSATA) port the drive will be bootable assuming, of course, that it contains a bootable copy of the XP OS. (Obviously we're assuming that the PC, i.e., the motherboard, supports SATA capability). A number of desktop cases come equipped with a "regular" (non- eSATA) SATA port and they work just fine to achieve this "bootability". It is true, however, that external non-eSATA ports are pretty much a thing of the past and virtually every new desktop case that comes equipped with an external port supporting SATA devices comes with an eSATA port. And, of course, any desktop motherboard that contains external SATA capability will similarly be equipped with an eSATA port. There are still a number of SATA adapters on the market (installed on the backplane of a PC's desktop case) that have a non-eSATA port or ports and they too work just fine to achieve this "bootability". Again, they're fast disappearing from the market to be replaced by devices containing the eSATA type of port. The basic advantage of the eSATA port over the "regular" SATA port is that it provides a more secure connection with the SATA data cable. And the SATA data cable that usually comes (or is used) with an eSATA-equipped device is generally a more heavily-shielded cable than the "regular" SATA data cable. As Colin points out, laptops/notebooks that are equipped with a eSATA port are a rare commodity. More's the pity since it's such a useful device - considerably superior to USB external devices used for data transfer. Hopefully that will change in the not-too-distant future but the industry, as a whole, has been woefully slow in embracing this superior technology. Particularly surprising because the additional cost involved is relatively trifling in the scheme of things. One of the reasons may be a "watch & wait" attitude because of the forthcoming SATA3 specifications/devices that are supposedly on the horizon. Anna Whatever, but I don't think you will ever see a laptop with an integrated SATA port because the technology has moved on now to eSATA ports. >>> Hi Colin >>>>> The bootability is not an issue right now. Although it is an [quoted text clipped - 62 lines] > that are supposedly on the horizon. > Anna Hello! > The bootability is not an issue right now. Although it is an interesting possibility that I hadn't thought of with an ExpressCard. > When I get my new Laptop I will certainly experiment with this. If it works it may be possible to set up a dual boot scenario - > Vista and WinXP or even trebble boot with Linux. That would be a lot of fun. BTW, an external SATA disk doesn't need to be bootable to install second Windows NT OS on it (in dual boot scenario). But \bootmgr (or \ntldr) (which is located on active partition and not on external disk) must be able to see it ... http://www.multibooters.co.uk/bootmgr.html Regards, Roman >>>> I need to get a new external HDD for my laptop and I'm thinking of >>>> getting an eSATA drive. My question is this: Can any HDD be turned into [quoted text clipped - 158 lines] > And have you actually used the Belkin ExpressCard? For what purpose? > Anna Hi Anna, So, just to be clear, if I purchase a CardBus with an eSATA port for my WinXP PCMCIA equipped laptop and an eSATA drive it should work? The plan would be to eventually use the drive in a new ExpressCard equipped Vista laptop, probably the M1530 again when they sort out the screen problem. On the issue of the M1530 display - Dell ships both LG and Samsung WSXGA+ displays for this model and the problem only exists with the Samsung, if you're unlucky enough to get one (you can't actually choose the brand you want). You would think a simple swap would be the way to go but I have met with firm resistance from one particularly strong-willed tech support guy. As strange as it might seem, the easier thing for me to do is to obtain a full refund, wait, and re-order as less Samsung screens are being released now. In the US, LED displays have also been released but that may not happen in Oz or at least for some time according to the newsgroups. The M1530 is otherwise a superb hi-spec laptop with a lot of visual appeal (T9300, 4 GB RAM, 256 MB GeForce 8600M GT). The XPS M1730 is a little out of my price range and too heavy for portability, but the specs are rather impressive. The extender that I spoke of is otherwise termed a 34/54 mm spacer adaptor. It is a piece of plastic that snaps onto the side of a 34mm ExpressCard to enable it to fit into a 54 mm module more securely. Google doesn't provide much help locating one of these but one came with the Targus ExpressCard docking station I bought with my M1530. I have a local picture of how it works if you're interested. No, I haven't used the Belkin ExpressCard at this point in time. > Hi Anna, > So, just to be clear, if I purchase a CardBus with an eSATA port for my > WinXP PCMCIA equipped laptop and an eSATA drive it should work? The plan > would be to eventually use the drive in a new ExpressCard equipped Vista > laptop, probably the M1530 again when they sort out the screen problem. (SNIP) > The extender that I spoke of is otherwise termed a 34/54 mm spacer > adaptor. It is a piece of plastic that snaps onto the side of a 34mm > ExpressCard to enable it to fit into a 54 mm module more securely. Google > doesn't provide much help locating one of these but one came with the > Targus ExpressCard docking station I bought with my M1530. I have a local > picture of how it works if you're interested. pbl: Yes, the eSATA CardBus will work just fine in terms of data transfer with your SATA HDD contained in a SATA external enclosure. As I previously mentioned you won't be able to boot to that SATA external HDD should it contain a potential bootable XP OS but it's ideal for general data transfer - considerably superior to a USB external HDD for that purpose. And, as you say, you would use the SATA EHD connected through an ExpressCard module on your Dell M1530 after it's repaired. Hopefully, the boot capability will be present under those circumstances. Please keep us informed of your experience in that area should you ever use a disk-cloning program to clone the contents of your laptop's internal HDD to the SATA external HDD through the ExpressCard device. I'd really be interested in that aspect. Thanks for the info on the "extender". I was unfamiliar with that item. The few times I had occasion to use a 34mm ExpressCard in a notebook that was equipped with the 54mm ExpressCard slot, the card fit in reasonably securely and I can't recall using any sort of extender or adapter. At least I wasn't aware of one. I'm beginning to wonder whether an extender/adapter was already affixed to the card and I just didn't notice it. I'll look into this further. Anna >> Hi Anna, >> So, just to be clear, if I purchase a CardBus with an eSATA port for my [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > it. I'll look into this further. > Anna Thanks for that. I will keep you posted on my adventures. I'll be doing some research over the next few days to locate a suitable SATA drive and enclosure. I have a couple of recommendations already to work with. |
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