Full backup / restore

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Alice - 26 Nov 2006 10:29 GMT

Is it normal that if you do a full backup and a restore from the Backup and
Restore Center that your Windows Update history is empty and all automatic
and manual Restore Points are gone? My feeling is it shouldn't be that way?

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Rick Rogers - 26 Nov 2006 14:06 GMT

Hi Alice,

If you are referring to the Complete PC Backup, then that is an image backup
akin to many of the better backup solutions available in the third party
software market, so you would only get back that which existed at the time
the image was created. In essence, the restoration processes wipes the
existing, damaged installation and replaces it with the image previously
backed up.

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Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
Windows help - www.rickrogers.org

> Is it normal that if you do a full backup and a restore from the Backup
> and
> Restore Center that your Windows Update history is empty and all automatic
> and manual Restore Points are gone? My feeling is it shouldn't be that
> way?

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Alice - 26 Nov 2006 15:33 GMT

Yes, that's what I'm referring to. The truth is, it was a complete functional
system that I backed up and immediately restored (part of my testing of Vista
functionality). So there was no 'damaged' installation. That's why I was
surprised to see that all System Restore points were gone and also the
Windows Update history was empty. Since it is an image backup, I would expect
those to be preserved.

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Rick Rogers - 26 Nov 2006 16:33 GMT

Hi Alice,

My understanding is that they are not included because it is assumed that
the system is functioning correctly at the time of the backup creation. The
backup is the means of restoration to a functioning system, one would not
need to roll it back a functioning system or uninstall an update.

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Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
Windows help - www.rickrogers.org

> Yes, that's what I'm referring to. The truth is, it was a complete
> functional
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> expect
> those to be preserved.

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Alice - 26 Nov 2006 17:22 GMT

> My understanding is that they are not included because it is assumed that
> the system is functioning correctly at the time of the backup creation. The
> backup is the means of restoration to a functioning system, one would not
> need to roll it back a functioning system or uninstall an update.

So it is *not* a full image backup like you said previously?

Suppose I made a backup yesterday. Today something goes wrong with my PC and
I restore it back to yesterday. Why am I not able to see the Windows Updates
that I installed up to yesterday? They *are* installed on my PC.

Also, why cannot I go back to a restore point of three days ago after the
restore? I *could* if nothing happened today but since I restored I cannot?
Isn't a full image restore supposed to bring the PC back to a state
*identical* to the time of backup?

Sorry, this doesn't make sence to me. Do 3rd party solutions behave similarly?

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Rick Rogers - 26 Nov 2006 18:40 GMT

Hi Alice,

More acurately, it's a system image, whereas many third party solutions do a
partition/volume image. In the interest of space and expediancy, only that
which matters is backed up.

Signature

Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
Windows help - www.rickrogers.org

>> My understanding is that they are not included because it is assumed that
>> the system is functioning correctly at the time of the backup creation.
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> Sorry, this doesn't make sence to me. Do 3rd party solutions behave
> similarly?

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Alice - 26 Nov 2006 19:21 GMT

> only that which matters is backed up.

According to whom? Obviously, this is where we disagree. ;-) I can see
situations where one would need to go back to a previous restore point even
after restoring a backup first.

Actually, I wonder if it is really working now as it was intended. Is it
documented somewhere that these things are left out on purpose?

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Rick Rogers - 26 Nov 2006 20:25 GMT

Hi,

I can't find any publications (white papers) on this feature yet. I can only
relate what I know from experience and input during the beta.

Signature

Best of Luck,

Rick Rogers, aka "Nutcase" - Microsoft MVP
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/
Windows help - www.rickrogers.org

>> only that which matters is backed up.
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> Actually, I wonder if it is really working now as it was intended. Is it
> documented somewhere that these things are left out on purpose?

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Alice - 27 Nov 2006 06:38 GMT

> I can't find any publications (white papers) on this feature yet. I can only
> relate what I know from experience and input during the beta.

OK, we'll wait. Thanks for your comments.

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Jill Zoeller [MSFT] - 27 Nov 2006 18:53 GMT

Rick, thanks for jumping in here and sharing information from the beta. I
have a couple answers for you from the development team:

1. Windows Updates -- the update history, the updated binaries, etc. should
all be restored completely intact. In other words, if you go to Windows
Update and ask for a list of installed updates, the list should be the same
right before you do the backup, and right after you do the restore. Is this
not what you are seeing?

2. Restore Points -- unfortunately, restore points cannot be preserved in
the backup. This has to do with the fact that a Complete PC Backup image is
made from a shadow copy, which itself contains the previous shadow copies
(restore points). However, as part of the shadow copy backup process, we
sometimes need to modify the shadow copy to delete files (for TxF and
possibly other reasons), and that invalidates the older shadow copies within
the context of that shadow copy.

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>> I can't find any publications (white papers) on this feature yet. I can
>> only
>> relate what I know from experience and input during the beta.
>
> OK, we'll wait. Thanks for your comments.

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Alice - 27 Nov 2006 20:55 GMT

Hi Jill,

Thanks for the clarification. To remove all doubts, I was not talking about
the beta but I'm running Build 6000.

So, if I understand correctly, it is normal that restore points are not in
the backup because of technical reasons, nevertheless the Windows Update
history should be included.

Ok, perhaps I will test it once more but since I pretty much have a 'final'
install of Vista right now, I prefer not to experiment for a while. Maybe
someone else jumps in with experiences.

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Jill Zoeller [MSFT] - 28 Nov 2006 19:23 GMT

You are correct.

We've been blogging about popular questions regarding our backup tools. You
might find our blog useful: http://blogs.technet.com/filecab/default.aspx.

> Hi Jill,
>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> install of Vista right now, I prefer not to experiment for a while. Maybe
> someone else jumps in with experiences.

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Alice - 28 Nov 2006 20:23 GMT

Thanks Jill, very interesting blog.

> You are correct.
>
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
> > install of Vista right now, I prefer not to experiment for a while. Maybe
> > someone else jumps in with experiences.

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