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Windows Forum / Windows Vista / Setup and Deployment / February 2007Are we in BIG troubles Guys ??
Hi, I think we are in big trouybles with Vista RTM. I "love" the product and install ot witout any trouble BUT when you begin to install what you need problems are coming. UAC is not the spource of the problem for me (I think). I disable it to be sure to be able to install "correctly" some application not yet compatible with Vista (may be it is the point ... application are not compatible !). I saw many person complaining about "access denied" problem, "don't have permission" problem, and so on after installing "microsoft" program ... so is there a big "hole" ? Personnaly, for instance, I have many directoriess where I can't write back. I get "you don't have permission to do this" ... and I'm administrator. Now, I have a problem with Thunderbird and try to re-install. DAMNED !! I can't re-install. The installer say "Access denied" !!! I really hope to hear from Guys working to microsoft and give us some way to recolve that or ... mays be give us a first litle service pack for Vista ... I really hope to have news because I'm a little bit stuck and become nervous :-) Waiting from you ... THANKS ! Pierre > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] > I really hope to have news because I'm a little bit stuck and become > nervous :-) Vista has changed the way it handles a lot of stuff internally compared to older versions of Windows. A lot of things that Microsoft documented as "bad practice" but let developers get away with have been tightened down at last. You can try running programs that have problems in compatability mode for older versions of Windows (right click on the shortcut to find this) but you may also have to accept 2 things at this point 1) a lot of programs will need updates from their manufacturer to work properly. 2) To the world at last outside the sort of people who post in groups like this, Vista isn't really 'released' yet. A lot of companies are not going to have those updates ready yet, and many of them will not be rushing just yet as Vista isn't generally available. > > Hi, > > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > have those updates ready yet, and many of them will not be rushing just yet > as Vista isn't generally available. The only problems I ever encountered with access denied was trying to access an XP partition when UAC was enabled. I don't dual boot any longer and "perhaps" know which products work on Vista and which don't. It can't be too long before software companies Vista proof their software, XP allowed software dens to be lazy, now they'll have to re educate themselves little. Colin T > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 29 lines] > > Pierre I solved that same problem by taking "Ownership" of the drive or folder. Right-click, choose properties, then the security tab, highlight your user name and click Advanced. Click owner tab, click Edit, choose your user name in the list and DON'T FORGET to tick the "Replace owner on subcontainers and objects" box. Click apply and let it do it's thing. It may take awhile. I've done this a couple of times with different partitions without ill affect, but IF anyone knows this is unsafe, please let me know. Thanks. zanderqin > The only problems I ever encountered with access denied was trying to access > an XP partition when UAC was enabled. I don't dual boot any longer and [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > > > Pierre Thanks. I try to take ownership but failed to change it for the folders for which I receive "You need permission to perform this action" ... :-( Pierre > I solved that same problem by taking "Ownership" of the drive or folder. > Right-click, choose properties, then the security tab, highlight your user [quoted text clipped - 45 lines] > > > > > > Pierre Colin, I have tried repeatedly to take ownership and set permissions on a folder or subdirectory tree PRECISELY as you have described, and although *some* files and subfolders *may* be changed, not all of them ever are. There seems to be something else blocking the inheritance of these changes made at higher levels in the directory tree. I, too, have many, many thousands of files that I simply cannot change one-by-one. Surely there must be some to make the ownership changes at the top level of a directory tree and then have the changes inherited by *ALL* the subfolders and files in that tree. Is there something else besides ticking that little box you mention that affects inheritance by subordinate folders and files. I would like to add that I am a home user, with 5 computers in my LAN. I am NOT a corporation or business. I have physical security over all these computers. I am the *sole* user, and sign in as administrator always. Why, then, should I be *forced* to have the same degree of internal security (as opposed to security from internet threats) that a large corporation would have? Isn't this still a PERSONAL computer?! At the very least it seems that MS should have provided some quick, simple, reliable way for home users like me who are migrating to Vista from XP to make *all* necessary permission changes in one or two steps, so that they can avoid this endless repetition of *partial* changes. Or am I right in concluding sometimes that the days of the "personal" computer have disappeared forever? Ben  SignatureTeachers Live Forever! > The only problems I ever encountered with access denied was trying to access > an XP partition when UAC was enabled. I don't dual boot any longer and [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > > > > Pierre >Colin, I have tried repeatedly to take ownership and set permissions on a >folder or subdirectory tree PRECISELY as you have described, and although [quoted text clipped - 22 lines] > >Ben The simple solution (till Microsoft fixes it) is just turn off UAC from User Accounts in Control Panel. I've really tried to get along with this "feature" and it remains a royal pain in the butt, no matter what you hear here from apologists, IT DOES NOT WORK AS ADVERTISED. Microsoft is aware of this and is desperately trying to get enough freedback to attempt a fix. The catch 22 is to understand how this is breaking down for some people, Microsoft is pleading with them not to turn it off, otherwise they won't be able to see what things cause it to act up. I'm tying to "help" in that respect, but its driving me nuts leaving it on. For people that don't have a high tolerance for getting annoyed constantly by the "feature", turn UAC off. I like you and I suspect many users in a home or small business setting have countless thousands of files. Even messing with inheritance you can't always "take over" and change permissions that's what some MVP's keep trying to deny and make excuses for trying to blame users saying they don't know what they're doing. Other way around. > Colin, I have tried repeatedly to take ownership and set permissions on a > folder or subdirectory tree PRECISELY as you have described, and although [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > tree. Is there something else besides ticking that little box you mention > that affects inheritance by subordinate folders and files. In the Start search box type cmd. Right click cmd.exe in the list above and pick Run as administrator. Use the takeown command to change the ownership. Something like this should work to change all the files in a folder and subfolders. TAKEOWN /F path_to_folder /R /D Y For all the parameters of the takeown command type TAKEOWN /? It can change the owner to the administrators group, an account you specify, and much more. Once you have ownership you may also have to change the NTFS permissions so you have permission to access the files. SignatureKerry Brown Microsoft MVP - Shell/User http://www.vistahelp.ca Three suggestions: 1) Turn UAC back on and try installing the programs. Turning off UAC may cause the program to fail silently. Having UAC on may give you a UAC prompt allowing the program to continue. 2) Try using Run as administrator to install the programs. 3) Try using compatibility mode to install the programs. SignatureKerry MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User www.vistahelp.ca > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > > Pierre Hi, I try each option you give ... with no success ! Keep receiving "You need permission to perform this action" on some folders or "Access denied" when trying to install some programs. Thanks regards Pierre > Three suggestions: > [quoted text clipped - 34 lines] > > > > Pierre Then those programs will have to be rewritten for Vista. If the developer can't or won't and you need to run those programs then you'll have to do so in a virtual machine with a different OS or not use Vista on that computer. SignatureKerry MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User www.vistahelp.ca > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 51 lines] >>> >>> Pierre OK ! It becomes "clear" that's a compatibility problem. I prefer that ! Thanks Pierre > Then those programs will have to be rewritten for Vista. If the developer > can't or won't and you need to run those programs then you'll have to do so > in a virtual machine with a different OS or not use Vista on that computer. OK ! It becomes "clear" that's a compatibility problem. I prefer that ! But still a bit difficult to understand why this message as I have all the rights and permissions ... Thanks Pierre > Then those programs will have to be rewritten for Vista. If the developer > can't or won't and you need to run those programs then you'll have to do so > in a virtual machine with a different OS or not use Vista on that computer. The program is trying to access either a restricted area of the registry or file system and not asking Vista first. If the program is rewritten for Vista the developer can either change the program to access permitted areas or ask the user for permission by informing Vista that the program needs this access. The user will get a uac prompt then access will be granted or not depending on the user's response. SignatureKerry MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User www.vistahelp.ca > OK ! > It becomes "clear" that's a compatibility problem. I prefer that ! [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] >> MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User >> www.vistahelp.ca Thanks for the explanation. That's for the "program execution and installation" part ... But what's concerning the fact that I can't write back a backup file to a directory ? Ok, may be the program was "mis-installed" but I have all the rights and can't write back my files ... (you need the permission to perform this action) ... > The program is trying to access either a restricted area of the registry or > file system and not asking Vista first. If the program is rewritten for > Vista the developer can either change the program to access permitted areas > or ask the user for permission by informing Vista that the program needs > this access. The user will get a uac prompt then access will be granted or > not depending on the user's response. Where is the directory located? What is the full path to it? SignatureKerry MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User www.vistahelp.ca > Thanks for the explanation. > That's for the "program execution and installation" part ... [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >> MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User >> www.vistahelp.ca As I was trying to find out a solution I post also this thread :-) May I ask you to take a look ? I think an other people from your team try to help me. Thanks for you help and time, http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/en-us/default.mspx?dg=mi crosoft.public.windows.vista.security&tid=c01fb39c-6ddc-45a7-bbb2-333aa1a2b08d&c at=&lang=en&cr=US&sloc=en-us&m=1&p=1 > Where is the directory located? What is the full path to it? > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > >> MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User > >> www.vistahelp.ca I am having a similar problem - that can definately NOT be blamed on third part apps! Before starting the install, I plugged in a drive (freshly formatted as NTFS) to my XP Pro machine, and off-loaded all my data onto this drive. Then, on machine #2 (brand new machine, new drives) I installed Vista 64-bit RTM (I am an MSDN member). Then using a network browse (ie \\MACHINE1\Share, enter username as MACHINE1\Administrator plus pass), I tried to simply copy the files from the XP machine to the new Vista machine. The Vista machine is not part of a domain, and has NO third party software installed in it. I got the "You need permission to perform this action" - checked all the perms on both machines and everything set to full control (both share and file level). Even MORE odd is the fact that I can access the data on the remote machine - even run programs and alter files - which means this is NOT a perms problem on the remote machine. Seems there is a MAJOR bug in Vista preventing any "foreign" data from being copied onto local drives. I also tried downloading a file from the new, and moving it to the same folder that I was trying to copy to - this it could do no problem. I trust that this bug will be addressed ASAP, as I am sure that many, many people will need to be able to actually store data on their Vista machines, not just have them look pretty! SignatureTBullock http://forums.techarena.in No problems here and many have copied. Some kind of setup problem for you. As a test, try logging on in safe mode AS Administrator (not just administrative privileges) and try your copy and see if this changes anything. Check permissions and change if necessary first. > I am having a similar problem - that can definately NOT be blamed on > third part apps! Before starting the install, I plugged in a drive [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > many people will need to be able to actually store data on their Vista > machines, not just have them look pretty! I have 4 drives in my computer. Three of them have data from prior Windows XP installations. Some of this data goes back to windows 95 days. I have no problem at all writing data from the three drives to my Windows Vista drive. You have a setup problem or did something wrong. I wasn't looking over your shoulder as you set up your computer so I can't tell you what you did wrong. BUT, there is "not" a bug that prevents the copying of data into a Vista system drive. It may be the program (backup program?) that you are using to try to do this. I can also bring over files from another computer (server) on my home network at will. SignatureRegards, Richard Urban Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User (For email, remove the obvious from my address) Quote from George Ankner: If you knew as much as you think you know, You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew! > I am having a similar problem - that can definately NOT be blamed on > third part apps! Before starting the install, I plugged in a drive [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > many people will need to be able to actually store data on their Vista > machines, not just have them look pretty! It's interesting that the pat answer of "I have no problem, therefore it can't be a bug" seems to always be the default answer! This is made more irritating by the fact that a simple Google search yeilds LOTS of people with the same problem! I am not talking about moving data from one (XP) drive to another mounted on the Vista machine, but rather accessing a network share and copying files from there. This is NOT the same thing! I have to laugh when you say that it must be a setup problem - setup asks about 5 questions in total - machine name, user name and password, where to install and a key ... I find it a tad difficult to know exactly HOW I could possibly mess that up! I have re-installed this now twice to make sure that it is, in fact, a bug. I am running an Asus P5B Deluxe motherboard, new drives (ie not upgrading, or anything like that), and as the IT manager for a 1000 person firm, am very well familiar with how to set up a simple workstation! I can also copy files FROM an XP station on the network TO the Vista machine without issues (into same location), and also open, run, modify remote files FROM the Vista machine. What I cannot do is copy or move files from a remote network machine to the local drives - to ANY location onthe local drives. My machine has absolutely nothing installed except Vista, and Avast anti-virus, and as I said it's a simple default install - not joined to a domain, no aftermarket firewall, nothing. On the previous install I had Trend Micro antivirus installed, with the same result, so don't bother trying to say that it's antivirus! It is likely that this issue is specific to the 64 bit version, or perhaps even to a particular driver within the 64 bit version, but this IS a bug! Saying that it doesn't exist because you haven't seen it does not alter the fact that it has affected more than just me - again, check Google for pages of people with similar comments! SignatureTBullock http://forums.techarena.in I can sympathize with your having problems with Vista, but if others are not experiencing the same problems, how can you expect them to have any ideas on how to correct the problems? The suggestions offered are an effort to help you isolate and correct your problem. I see all kinds of reported problems posted. Some of the problems posted are on the same hardware I have, but I am not experiencing the problems. In these cases I am led to presume the problem is neither hardware nor software based, but something in the setup or configuration. I have both x86 and x64 versions of Vista RC2 running and I have yet to have a single problem with either of them. I finally gave up trying to offer suggestions because of those, like you, that get irritated because others weren't having the same problems. If you know of some way for people to know what your problems are when they are not experiencing the same problems, please let me know how one goes about that. I would truly like to know how anyone could accomplish this. > It's interesting that the pat answer of "I have no problem, therefore it > can't be a bug" seems to always be the default answer! This is made [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > not alter the fact that it has affected more than just me - again, check > Google for pages of people with similar comments! I haven't seen your problem and I am able to do that which you can not. Configuration differences? Setup differences? Who knows. But without having the two machines side-by-side it is impossible to do an A-B comparison. Again, I can copy files from anywhere and put them on my Vista partition. If you did an upgrade install - try again with a clean install. Try everything you would do in Windows XP if you had the same problem. Install Vista with only the bare minimum of hardware connected (one hard drive, DVD drive, video card, keyboard, mouse). See if everything works. Then connect ONE addition device at a time, install the drivers and check again. If everything is OK, do the same with your chosen software - one program at a time with a reboot in between. You have the computer in front of you. We/I do not. Something in "your" system/setup is causing the problem. It is NOT a universal condition that everyone is experiencing. SignatureRegards, Richard Urban Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User (For email, remove the obvious from my address) Quote from George Ankner: If you knew as much as you think you know, You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew! > It's interesting that the pat answer of "I have no problem, therefore it > can't be a bug" seems to always be the default answer! This is made [quoted text clipped - 32 lines] > not alter the fact that it has affected more than just me - again, check > Google for pages of people with similar comments! The ACLs have changed quite a bit in Vista. Places where you used to have permissions in XP you don't in Vista. There are junctions to fool old programs into thinking folders exist that don't really exist. It sounds like a permissions problem with the destination. I'll ask you the same thing I asked PierreDa and never got an answer to. What is the full path to the folder where you are trying to copy the files to? SignatureKerry MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User www.vistahelp.ca > I am having a similar problem - that can definately NOT be blamed on > third part apps! Before starting the install, I plugged in a drive [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > many people will need to be able to actually store data on their Vista > machines, not just have them look pretty! I have tried several areas - the first attempt was to drag the remote folder to the desktop. When that didn't wrk, I created a folder on the C drive (C:\DOWNLOAD), and set the owner to the local user, and the perms to everyone (also checked the box to propogate to subfolders, not that there were any. Copy or move to here also failed. Grasping at straws, I got a new hard drive, installed it as D, formatted it NTFS, set the ownership and perms of the whole drive to the local user, and tried again. Still fails. Any ideas? SignatureTBullock http://forums.techarena.in I have created a folder in the root of C: (my Vista partition) called Utility. I have installed 9 small applets to this folder. I can copy from anywhere to this folder. I can delete from this folder at will, either from across my local LAN, from my other 3 hard drives installed in the computer or downloaded files from the internet. See my other recent post. SignatureRegards, Richard Urban Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User (For email, remove the obvious from my address) Quote from George Ankner: If you knew as much as you think you know, You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew! > I have tried several areas - the first attempt was to drag the remote > folder to the desktop. When that didn't wrk, I created a folder on the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Any ideas? Richard, Thanks for doing some testing on my behalf - I think the best thing from here would perhaps to examine exactly where our setups differ. My machine is set up as the following: Asus P5B Deluxe/WiFi-AP 4GB RAM WD 500GB SATA Hard drive (x2) Liteon DVD+-RW nVIDIA 7950GT BIOS is set up fairly standard, with the exception that the drives are set to run AHCI. Vista Ultimate x64 installed, no deviation from any defaults along the way - system drive partitioned into 60gb C drive, rest as D. Second drive set up as E. Not a member of a domain, just the basic install. No aftermarket drivers installed, except for Intel ICH8 driver for hard drive (actually i have tried copying with and without this installed). No software installed except AV - I have tried Avast and Trend Micro to same efect. NIC set for DHCP. I can copy files on and off the drives at will from locally connected devices (ie DVD, local hard drives, memory sticks, etc). I can set up a share on the Vista machine and copy files on and off it using the remote XP machine. I can download files from the Internet without issues - and store them basically anywhere. I can attach to a network share, run, create, modify and delete without issues. If I try to drag a file (or folder) from the network share onto the local drive, however, it fails. Are any of the above settings any different at all than yours? What motherboard and chipset are you running? What AV are you running? What exact version of Vista do you have? Any assistance would be appreciated! SignatureTBullock http://forums.techarena.in I have just confirmed this as well. I can create a folder on a Vista computer and share it. I edited the permissions so that everyone had modify, read, and write access. I could copy files to and from this folder no problem on the Vista computer. It didn't matter if the files were located on a network share or local. If I went to an XP computer and mapped a drive to the share I could see the share. I could copy files from the share. I could not copy files to the share from the XP computer. I tried using several different users when mapping the drive including a local administrator from the Vista pc. It didn't matter which account I used I could not copy from the XP pc to the Vista pc while using the XP pc. I don't know of any reason why or any workarounds. Maybe someone else will have a suggestion. SignatureKerry Brown Microsoft MVP Windows - Shell/User www.vistahelp.ca > I have tried several areas - the first attempt was to drag the remote > folder to the desktop. When that didn't wrk, I created a folder on the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Any ideas? |
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