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Windows Forum / Windows Vista / Setup and Deployment / May 2008Vista Problem with 8GB
Hi I have the following setup: MSI P6N Diamond motherboard Intel Core 2 Extreme QX6700 Quad core CPU 8GB RAM: 4 x 2GB Mushkin 800 mHz DDR2 MSI NX8800 Ultra OC video card PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750W PSU WD Raptor 74GB 10K SATA HD (used as boot drive) Hitachi Deskstar 1TB Lite-On Blu-Ray burner 3 x Seagate Barracuda 750GB SATA HDs Silverstone TJ07-S full tower case Dell 3007 30" monitor with USB hub I am having trouble getting Vista to run on my system with a full memory configuration, despite the fact that XP32 installs just fine. Having done research I knew that it can help to have <3gb installed, so I started with that. Here is the story so far: -I only have 1 x 2GB stick in the machine and unplug all drives except for boot and BD drive. (I do this so I don't get bizarre drive letters where the BD ends up being the last letter and the CompactFlash drives are in front my my data drives). -Install XP32 on the first partition of my 74gb boot, no problems -Install Vista Ultimate 64 on the second partition, also no problems -Install all drivers in XP32 and Vista. So far so good. -Download the plethora of updates for Vista. KB929777 is not one of them. I download it anyway and install it, it says that this update is not compatible with my system. -Install 8gb and test each install. XP32 only sees 3, but that's fine. Vista sees 8GB - yes!!! -Connect 1 additional HD and try both systems again. XP32 boots fine. Vista BSODs with the standard error, 0x00007 etc etc. -I remove the 6GB from my moboard, and retry. Vista runs fine. XP32 of course does as well. I connect the other drives in a piecemeal fashion, booting each OS individually after each connection and checking that I can see each drive. -After all drives are connected and I've tested them, I put the 6GB back and cross my fingers. I boot Vista and success!! I see the drives, I see my memory, life is good. -My intuition at this point is that if Vista with full memory sees a new storage device upon boot before it's had a chance to fully load itself it immediately vomits, while if it only has 2gb it's fine. If it has already built a picture of its devices from before that it doesn't do this, hence it's ok to run 8GB. -I close the case, shove it under my desk, and connect everything, including the USB hub in my monitor. I boot into Vista and sure enough it has the same BSOD! -(I start to get a bit annoyed at this point...) I remove the machine from under the desk, open it up, yank the 6GB out, reboot. Vista works fine. I reinstall the 6GB, figuring it was going to be as before as per my intuition, but it still BSODs. I disconnect the hub but it continues to fail. I remove the 6gb again and it's fine. I connect the hub and it's fine. I satisfy myself that the hub and 8gb don't like each other, and now 8gb without the hub doesn't work either. -I decide to try something different. I have all of my drives connected (including the hub) and reinstall Vista (with only 2GB). Of course now with the new drive letters this install of Vista destroys the dual boot function, so I lose my XP32... After Vista installs I slap in the 6GB, and it works! -I now have to reinstall XP32 fully with all drives connected and then I will (yet again!) reinstall Vista in order to get my dual boot back. That means I will have installed Vista at least 5 times during this process. So this is where I currently stand. I have ascertained that Vista with more than 2GB just can't handle a new storage device being added. Adding a storage device and then booting Vista somehow updates the table of storage devices, which means you can then add more memory. Adding a storage device with 8GB definitely blows up the system, from which you may recover by removing the memory and maybe you won't, as with the hub. The 929777 hotfix does not seem to do anything. I have not overclocked my machine in any way, and I've run Prime95 on it while in XP32 and have had no problems. Has anyone else been able to get Vista64 running stably on a machine with 8GB? I bought Vista in order to run more memory and it's deeply frustrating that I can only get it to run reliably with 2GB - it kills much of the reason to have Vista. thx dl Windows Vista design parameters can accommodate up to 4GB RAM.  SignatureCarey Frisch Microsoft MVP Windows - Shell/User -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hi I have the following setup: MSI P6N Diamond motherboard Intel Core 2 Extreme QX6700 Quad core CPU 8GB RAM: 4 x 2GB Mushkin 800 mHz DDR2 MSI NX8800 Ultra OC video card PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750W PSU WD Raptor 74GB 10K SATA HD (used as boot drive) Hitachi Deskstar 1TB Lite-On Blu-Ray burner 3 x Seagate Barracuda 750GB SATA HDs Silverstone TJ07-S full tower case Dell 3007 30" monitor with USB hub I am having trouble getting Vista to run on my system with a full memory configuration, despite the fact that XP32 installs just fine. Having done research I knew that it can help to have <3gb installed, so I started with that. Here is the story so far: -I only have 1 x 2GB stick in the machine and unplug all drives except for boot and BD drive. (I do this so I don't get bizarre drive letters where the BD ends up being the last letter and the CompactFlash drives are in front my my data drives). -Install XP32 on the first partition of my 74gb boot, no problems -Install Vista Ultimate 64 on the second partition, also no problems -Install all drivers in XP32 and Vista. So far so good. -Download the plethora of updates for Vista. KB929777 is not one of them. I download it anyway and install it, it says that this update is not compatible with my system. -Install 8gb and test each install. XP32 only sees 3, but that's fine. Vista sees 8GB - yes!!! -Connect 1 additional HD and try both systems again. XP32 boots fine. Vista BSODs with the standard error, 0x00007 etc etc. -I remove the 6GB from my moboard, and retry. Vista runs fine. XP32 of course does as well. I connect the other drives in a piecemeal fashion, booting each OS individually after each connection and checking that I can see each drive. -After all drives are connected and I've tested them, I put the 6GB back and cross my fingers. I boot Vista and success!! I see the drives, I see my memory, life is good. -My intuition at this point is that if Vista with full memory sees a new storage device upon boot before it's had a chance to fully load itself it immediately vomits, while if it only has 2gb it's fine. If it has already built a picture of its devices from before that it doesn't do this, hence it's ok to run 8GB. -I close the case, shove it under my desk, and connect everything, including the USB hub in my monitor. I boot into Vista and sure enough it has the same BSOD! -(I start to get a bit annoyed at this point...) I remove the machine from under the desk, open it up, yank the 6GB out, reboot. Vista works fine. I reinstall the 6GB, figuring it was going to be as before as per my intuition, but it still BSODs. I disconnect the hub but it continues to fail. I remove the 6gb again and it's fine. I connect the hub and it's fine. I satisfy myself that the hub and 8gb don't like each other, and now 8gb without the hub doesn't work either. -I decide to try something different. I have all of my drives connected (including the hub) and reinstall Vista (with only 2GB). Of course now with the new drive letters this install of Vista destroys the dual boot function, so I lose my XP32... After Vista installs I slap in the 6GB, and it works! -I now have to reinstall XP32 fully with all drives connected and then I will (yet again!) reinstall Vista in order to get my dual boot back. That means I will have installed Vista at least 5 times during this process. So this is where I currently stand. I have ascertained that Vista with more than 2GB just can't handle a new storage device being added. Adding a storage device and then booting Vista somehow updates the table of storage devices, which means you can then add more memory. Adding a storage device with 8GB definitely blows up the system, from which you may recover by removing the memory and maybe you won't, as with the hub. The 929777 hotfix does not seem to do anything. I have not overclocked my machine in any way, and I've run Prime95 on it while in XP32 and have had no problems. Has anyone else been able to get Vista64 running stably on a machine with 8GB? I bought Vista in order to run more memory and it's deeply frustrating that I can only get it to run reliably with 2GB - it kills much of the reason to have Vista. thx dl Hi I thought one of the key selling points of a 64bit OS was that it could address more than 4GB? I recall XP64 made a big deal of that. I read recently that RAM manufacturers were complaining about slower than expected Vista uptake since it led to lower RAM sales. I assumed they must have meant upgrades >4gb, otherwise people would just continue to use XP. dl > Windows Vista design parameters can accommodate up to 4GB RAM. > [quoted text clipped - 80 lines] > thx > dl > I thought one of the key selling points of a 64bit OS was that it could > address more than 4GB? I recall XP64 made a big deal of that. You're right - one of the key selling points of a 64bit OS *is* that it could address more than 4GB. "Carey Frisch [MVP]" wrote: > Windows Vista design parameters can accommodate up to 4GB RAM. And I have to respectfully disagree with Carey here: "Windows Vista design parameters can accommodate up to 4GB RAM" is just wrong. 64-bit operating systems can use virtual memory addresses up to 8TB in size; but x64 XP (and I believe Vista is the same) are designed for a maximum of 128 GB of RAM. See (for example): http://download.microsoft.com/download/e/b/a/eba1050f-a31d-436b-9281-92cdfeae4b4 5/mem-mgmt.doc However, taking advantage of the full 4GB-8GB of physical RAM requires a co-ordinated effort by operating system, chipset and BIOS. It would be true to say that most current chipsets and BIOSs have design parameters which can accommodate up to 4GB RAM, max. Fortunately, the MSI PN6 is able to use 8GB of physical RAM, altough it may only report 7GB in practice (see page 2-8 of the motherboard's manual). So in broad terms, yes: your system should work okay. Why you are getting STOP errors, will depend on exactly which STOP (aka "BSOD") you are getting. You say "Vista BSODs with the standard error, 0x00007 etc etc" - there are actually more than 50 different STOP 0xhhhhhhhh errors! None is "standard". More details about the exact error you're seeing would help diagnose the exact nature of the problem. Does Windows Error Reporting send the information about your crashes to Microsoft, after you reboot? Online Crash Analysis (OCA, see http://oca.microsoft.com) is probably the easisest way to get a detailed analysis of the crash. Or you could open a Service Request with Microsoft PSS. (Or use the Windows Debuuging Tools - http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/devtools/debugging/default.mspx - to analyse the memory dump yourself to see what failed). While your troubleshooting has confirmed there's definitely some kind of problem on your system, it is not caused by any fundamental inability of x64 Vista to handle > 2GB or 4GB of RAM (well, apart from the 929777 issue ... and there may be similar new bugs, waiting in the wings). It could just as easily be something that requires a BIOS update, or the like. Hope this helps, Andrew PS you've seen http://support.microsoft.com/kb/935806, right? admit is. you really just wanted to boast about your computer? you don't have any problems with vista and your system ram. > Hi > [quoted text clipped - 94 lines] > thx > dl Ha ha! I wish. If I'd wanted to just do that I would have put the specs in a .sig and posted some commented about how great it was to have all the RAM. dl > admit is. you really just wanted to boast about your computer? you don't > have any problems with vista and your system ram. [quoted text clipped - 97 lines] > > thx > > dl > 8GB RAM: 4 x 2GB Mushkin 800 mHz DDR2 That could be your problem. MSI has told me that 800 MHz RAM can only be used up to 4GB reliably. To use more than 4GB, you might have to use 667MHz or lower with that motherboard. Tom Lake Oooh, interesting. I'll have to try that next time I have a BSOD occur. I'll let you know how I get on. thx dl > > 8GB RAM: 4 x 2GB Mushkin 800 mHz DDR2 > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > > Tom Lake Hi, a friend was having a similar problem with a 4gb configuration, his system was using 4 sticks of DDR2 8500, he fixed it by providing more voltage to the chipset, in this case the northbridge. Try and add more voltage, just make sure its either actively cooled or watercooled, and dont go all the way up to its max voltage, u dont want to burn it. > Hi > [quoted text clipped - 78 lines] > thx > dl Hi That certainly seemed to help!! I am now running only 4gb (as per prior post that you can only run 4gb at 800, otherwise it's 667), and have upped the voltage to 2.2v and seem to be doing ok. Thanks to everyone for their responses, I really appreciate it! dl > Hi, a friend was having a similar problem with a 4gb configuration, his > system was using 4 sticks of DDR2 8500, he fixed it by providing more voltage > to the chipset, in this case the northbridge. Try and add more voltage, just > make sure its either actively cooled or watercooled, and dont go all the way > up to its max voltage, u dont want to burn it. I have gigabyte EX38-DS4, X9650 @3.5Ghz, Patriot (PC8500) 1066 DDR2 memory and am running Vista x64 premium. I have had nothing but stability issues w/ fully populated memory banks @ 8Gb. I was about to go back to XP when I saw a thread discussing the fact that Vistax64 doesn't seem to like 8Gb installed w/ all memory banks populated. Some have re-installed Vista w/ 2Gb active and then populating the remainder. I didn't have any luck there. I ended up ripping out one stick of DDR2 and living w/ 6Gb. My system is hauntingly stable. I have run the system through a torture test and it performed flawlessly... I have now OC'd and its all good - go figure!?! If I install the last stick - BSoD and relentless program closures... %^#$!! If U R having BSoD issues and are running 8Gb, or are fully populating your memory banks, try taking a stick out and seeing if your systems stops crashing. I'm pissed! I went Vistax64 route to take advantage of the increased addressing capability. Thank U Bill Gates! Senior Es-wipe! SignatureShadyAchmed > I have gigabyte EX38-DS4, X9650 @3.5Ghz, Patriot (PC8500) 1066 DDR2 > memory and am running Vista x64 premium. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Thank U Bill Gates! Senior Es-wipe! Sounds more like a hardware problem to me. Have you checked out your power supply to see if it will provide the required amperage to the components? Look at the detailed specs for the various voltages, not just the wattage rating. I think I had all the power issues resolved awhile ago. My Patriot memory needs 2.3v, so I increased my DDR1.8v by 0.5v. My system BIOS and CPU-z report them at the correct voltages (2.3v). But when I fully populate my memory slots @ 8Gb I get the BSoD and serious instability. Its worth mentioning that a lot of the crashed and instability was coupled w/ graphics and Vista's DX10.0 driver notices. (But @ 6Gb, I'm good, no VGA changes) I thought I may have bad memory but systematically eliminated that as an issue - only to find relief w/ one slot free @ 6Gb. My BIOS is up to date, I have all the vista updates successfully installed, Current VGA drivers... All my hardware drivers are the most current and seem to function correctly. This behavior seems quirky, but I'm at a loss as to what else could cause such fickled behavior. Any other thoughts? SignatureShadyAchmed > I think I had all the power issues resolved awhile ago. My Patriot > memory needs 2.3v, so I increased my DDR1.8v by 0.5v. My system BIOS [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Any other thoughts? It's not an inherent problem with Vista. I am running Vista x64 and it's very stable. It's a problem with how the mother board handles the memory when all the slots are populated. You would probably have the same problem if you installed four 1 GB DIMMs. Try running the RAM at a slower speed. Failing that try some 1.8V RAM. SignatureKerry Brown MS-MVP - Windows Desktop Experience: Systems Administration http://www.vistahelp.ca/phpBB2/ > I think I had all the power issues resolved awhile ago. My Patriot > memory needs 2.3v, so I increased my DDR1.8v by 0.5v. My system BIOS [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Any other thoughts? I was referring to 'amperage' not 'voltage'. If your power supply has marginal capacity to meet the requirements of your components then adding that fourth memory bank could cause the kind of instability you are describing. Proper voltage is important, but if your system is not getting enough amperage at the required voltages during momentary periods of maximum demand then you can expect instability problems. I have a Antec 850W. Plenty of power. I think this is related to the DDR2 voltages. I think the MoBo is over taxed w/ 4 slots populated @2.3v. So far - I'm very stable @6Gb 2.3v... disappointed but stable. My bad for not getting the Kensington 1.8v sticks... thanks for the suggestions! SignatureShadyAchmed This problem may be related to the motherboard and what happens to the buss timing with all memory slots populated. Voltage drop on the motherboard may also be an issue. I'd be looking for motherboard specific information concerning the problem. It may be that specific BIOS settings can get you out of the woods. > I have a Antec 850W. Plenty of power. I think this is related to the > DDR2 voltages. I think the MoBo is over taxed w/ 4 slots populated [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > thanks for the suggestions! > I have gigabyte EX38-DS4, X9650 @3.5Ghz, Patriot (PC8500) 1066 DDR2 > memory and am running Vista x64 premium. [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > > Thank U Bill Gates! Senior Es-wipe! I have a gigabyte P35-DS4, Q6600 @3.2Ghz, Generic 8gb DDR2 800Mhz @ 1.8V running Vista Business x64. I think it will be a hardware issue rather than a vista issue. |
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