Windows Forum / Windows Vista / General Topics / April 2007
Is Vista going to be the death of MS?
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Darkelldar - 27 Apr 2007 03:24 GMT Microsoft profits are up on sales of Vista.
Read on http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/31803/118/
Former captain of the Enterprise - 27 Apr 2007 03:33 GMT that only shows the masses dont know what is in store for them...
junkfood sales are climbing... that does not mean they are good..
now we have junkos
anyway at least half of those people will return vista or format and install xp anyway...
> Microsoft profits are up on sales of Vista. > > Read on http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/31803/118/ Darkelldar - 27 Apr 2007 05:11 GMT Myself and 3 others I work with are now using Vista and we are all happy with it.
> that only shows the masses dont know what is in store for them... > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >> >> Read on http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/31803/118/ SeriousShave - 27 Apr 2007 12:53 GMT Darkelldar;2803708 Wrote:
> Myself and 3 others I work with are now using Vista and we are all > happy [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > >> > >> Read on http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/31803/118/ I think that is such a good point. There are millions of people working happily with Vista every day who don't make a big fuss because Vista helps them to be productive and enjoy their computing experience in totally new ways. I have a feeling that most of the moaners on here haven't actually used Vista, because if they did, they would likely be very pleasantly surprised indeed. I don’t know anyone who has actually used Vista who hasn’t been impressed by it.
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Former captain of the Enterprise - 27 Apr 2007 13:53 GMT People can be happy with low quality products because they are not aware or even care of how things could be better.
> Myself and 3 others I work with are now using Vista and we are all happy > with it. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >>> >>> Read on http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/31803/118/ Frank - 27 Apr 2007 15:56 GMT > People can be happy with low quality products because they are not aware or > even care > of how things could be better. I totally agree and you are proly one of the very best example of that statement. Frank
Frank - 27 Apr 2007 05:48 GMT > that only shows the masses dont know what is in store for them... > [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > anyway at least half of those people will return vista or format and install > xp anyway... Snort! Frank
Frank - 27 Apr 2007 03:33 GMT > Microsoft profits are up on sales of Vista. > > Read on http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/31803/118/ A 65& increase in sales! We're dying here boys. Frank
DP - 27 Apr 2007 04:57 GMT I'm sure heads will be rolling in Redmond soon. The stockholders will demand it after that kind of performance!
>> Microsoft profits are up on sales of Vista. >> [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > We're dying here boys. > Frank Darkelldar - 27 Apr 2007 05:13 GMT Looks like the end is near.
> I'm sure heads will be rolling in Redmond soon. The stockholders will > demand it after that kind of performance! [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> We're dying here boys. >> Frank Milhouse Van Houten - 27 Apr 2007 08:03 GMT Ah yes, 1 in 3 dollars MS makes is pure profit, and there were nearly 5 billion of those pure profit dollars this quarter alone. MS is doomed.
BTW, Apple is golden these days, can do no wrong. Their numbers were also released this week, and interestingly, their *total sales* revenue only slightly exceeded MS's *profit*. That gives you an idea of their relative positions. And Apple only makes about 15 cents on the dollar. Too bad they can't dup iPods out of thin air the way MS can software.
> Looks like the end is near. > [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >>> We're dying here boys. >>> Frank atcompsys@shaw.ca - 27 Apr 2007 13:52 GMT > Ah yes, 1 in 3 dollars MS makes is pure profit, and there were nearly 5 > billion of those pure profit dollars this quarter alone. MS is doomed. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > positions. And Apple only makes about 15 cents on the dollar. Too bad they > can't dup iPods out of thin air the way MS can software. Gates told Jobs a long time ago that the big money is going to be in the software. And the winner is.....
Julian - 27 Apr 2007 14:01 GMT >> Ah yes, 1 in 3 dollars MS makes is pure profit, and there were nearly 5 >> billion of those pure profit dollars this quarter alone. MS is doomed. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > the software. > And the winner is..... Warren Buffet.
New Captain of the Enterprise - 27 Apr 2007 15:16 GMT I thought it was Sanjaya!
>>> Ah yes, 1 in 3 dollars MS makes is pure profit, and there were nearly 5 >>> billion of those pure profit dollars this quarter alone. MS is doomed. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Warren Buffet. Julian - 28 Apr 2007 00:11 GMT >I thought it was Sanjaya! Noted.
>>>> Ah yes, 1 in 3 dollars MS makes is pure profit, and there were nearly 5 >>>> billion of those pure profit dollars this quarter alone. MS is doomed. [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] >> >> Warren Buffet. ...winston - 28 Apr 2007 04:35 GMT As a msft stockholder increased sales are good for all..though a closer look at the numbers also says that more than 30% of this quarters revenue was deferred from the last quarter and additional Vista sales accounted for only about 3% of the total revenue which indicates that the status-quo base line products are primarily responsible and likely drive any quarter to quarter current or yr to yr comparison.
Without actual Vista revenue numbers any comparison or weighing is premature. Availability of such would allow a better understanding of the economics of Vista instead of XP and the price differential contributor.
..winston
: > Microsoft profits are up on sales of Vista. : > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] : We're dying here boys. : Frank gsx@gsxnet.com - 28 Apr 2007 05:54 GMT here is a man who knows economics, way to go my friend, the voice of reason G As a msft stockholder increased sales are good for all..though a closer look at the numbers also says that more than 30% of this quarters revenue was deferred from the last quarter and additional Vista sales accounted for only about 3% of the total revenue which indicates that the status-quo base line products are primarily responsible and likely drive any quarter to quarter current or yr to yr comparison.
Without actual Vista revenue numbers any comparison or weighing is premature. Availability of such would allow a better understanding of the economics of Vista instead of XP and the price differential contributor.
..winston
"Frank" <fb@nospamm.cmm> wrote in message news:udHdrRHiHHA.4668@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
: Darkelldar wrote: : > Microsoft profits are up on sales of Vista. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] : We're dying here boys. : Frank cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user) - 29 Apr 2007 17:50 GMT >here is a man who knows economics, way to go my friend, the voice of reason
>"...winston" <merlin@druid9#.com> wrote in message
>As a msft stockholder increased sales are good for all.. What can go wrong is that acts designed to boost sales may backfire, if the envelope is pushed too far.
The problem is that the balance between pre-release and post-release development is moving towards the latter, and this is open-ended in terms of just how much it will cost.
Before, when most effort was pre-release, you could figure a selling price (or work within a set price) and off you go.
Now, the future of cost of patching and support can blow out beyond the planning that set the selling price, and there's not many ways to generate new income from these committments.
In fact, MS could find themselves between a rock (high resources needed to support shipped product) and a hard place (low resources to develop new products and revenue streams).
If there's a die-back in demand, and thus revenue from new products, then this can become terminal.
Given these rtealities, it would suit MS much better to switch to what I call "rental slavery", i.e. annual payment just to keep using whatever you have, with updates/upgrades being force-fed into the system (as 'protection against exploits' etc.) whether you like it or not. That gives MS an adjustable income that no longer depends on new sales to existing users, and makes it easier to keep everyone on the latest version, thus less legacyware to retro-develop.
But that's quite a jump from today's EULA to a completely different model of charges, costs, and obligations. Who will negotiate this? Will MS enjoy enough market confidence and trust to simply present users with a new model, or will they squander that trust with dumb-a.s annoyances and "super-scalar licensing" before then?
The Pentium was the first PC processor that could excute multiple instructions at once, breaking through the "how much faster can each instruction run?" roadblock.
Current MS practice is pushing towards selling more than one license (for the same product) to the same user. breaking through the "how much more can one charge per license?" barrier.
For example, your PC comes with an OEM "airbox" MS Office 2007, and your HD fails. How do you reinstall MS Office? Just buy it again.
Or you get a laptop with XP Starter on it, hit a problem like this...
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/914906
...which forces you to "just" wipe and rebuild - or do you let the OEM up-sell you to XP Pro instead?
Or your PC gets stolen, and because the OEM sticker is stuck to the case, your license is stolen too. MS support shrugs and say "insurance will pay", i.e. you have to buy another license.
Or you scrap your PC and aren't allowed to transfer the license to a new one, because it's "different", etc.
Or your XP keeps demanding to be activated even though no hardware has changed, and eventually you cave and just buy again.
Now these sort of shenanigans may work in the short term, but they are squandering goodwill. Right now, there are no lifeboats, but that could change very suddenly... all that has to happen is for Apple to open up MacOS (which is already *NIX and Intel-based) for PCs and drop thier brand, retail outlets and support behind it, allowing (rather than blocking, as they currently do) cross-polination from PCs and Linux. Sure, don't expect Jobs to do it, but the next broom might.
>------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - - Our senses are our UI to reality
>------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - - gsx@gsxnet.com - 27 Apr 2007 09:58 GMT vista is great, i have it on two pc's, ms is hardly dead or dying, i seem to recall a bunch of ninnies said the same thing when xp rolled out. bah put you head in the sand and recongnize ms vista is really quite nice. G
> Microsoft profits are up on sales of Vista. > > Read on http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/31803/118/ Alias - 27 Apr 2007 10:56 GMT > Microsoft profits are up on sales of Vista. > > Read on http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/31803/118/ Hugo Chavez made more money with oil this quarter than Gates has with MS products. Does that make Chavez smarter than Billy boy?
Standard Oil, Firestone and General Motors had a little deal that nuked electric cars. Is that another great American success story?
The fact that you think a de facto monopoly making record profits is a good thing is pathetic.
Alias
Mike Hall MVP - 27 Apr 2007 12:16 GMT Alias
You have a problem..
>> Microsoft profits are up on sales of Vista. >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > Alias
 Signature Mike Hall MS MVP Windows Shell/User http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/
Julian - 27 Apr 2007 12:29 GMT > Alias > > You have a problem.. Funnily enough he's on his best behaviour here.
Mike Hall MVP - 27 Apr 2007 13:52 GMT That's as maybe, but he still has a problem.. :-)
He seems to be pitted against large corporate, especially MS, and hates Vista with a passion.. he has never used it though.. the thought of lining MS pockets absolutely abhors him.. yet he still uses XP.. oh well
>> Alias >> >> You have a problem.. > > Funnily enough he's on his best behaviour here.
 Signature Mike Hall MS MVP Windows Shell/User http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/
Alias - 27 Apr 2007 14:08 GMT > That's as maybe, but he still has a problem.. :-) NO, YOU have a problem.
> He seems to be pitted against large corporate, especially MS, and hates > Vista with a passion.. I have never said I hate Vista. Please do not put words in my mouth.
> he has never used it though.. the thought of > lining MS pockets absolutely abhors him.. yet he still uses XP.. oh well You have it all wrong but what else is new?
Alias
>>> Alias >>> >>> You have a problem.. >> >> Funnily enough he's on his best behaviour here. Alias - 27 Apr 2007 13:18 GMT > Alias > > You have a problem.. More like you have a problem with what I post.
Alias
>>> Microsoft profits are up on sales of Vista. >>> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> >> Alias Frank - 27 Apr 2007 15:59 GMT > Alias > > You have a problem.. He's a idiot and proly a fugitive. Pay no attention to his moronic mainly incoherent psychotic ramblings. They're stupid & totally meaningless. Frank
Alias - 27 Apr 2007 16:10 GMT >> Alias >> [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > They're stupid & totally meaningless. > Frank You forgot to belch and snort.
Alias
Frank - 27 Apr 2007 16:33 GMT >>> Alias >>> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > Alias Sorry, I politely farted. Frank
Alias - 27 Apr 2007 16:49 GMT >>>> Alias >>>> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Sorry, I politely farted. > Frank Politeness and you are an oxymoron.
Alias
Nina DiBoy - 27 Apr 2007 19:00 GMT >>>> Alias >>>> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Sorry, I politely farted. > Frank Wow, that was a long one! Feeling flatulent today? Take some Beano!
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Frank - 27 Apr 2007 19:42 GMT >>>>> Alias >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Wow, that was a long one! Feeling flatulent today? Take some Beano! Belch! Oh now I feel much better. Thank you for caring. (smirk) Frank
Nina DiBoy - 27 Apr 2007 20:57 GMT >>>>>> Alias >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > (smirk) > Frank LOL! ;)
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"Good poets borrow; great poets steal." - T. S. Eliot
gsx@gsxnet.com - 28 Apr 2007 05:55 GMT amen my friend, amen G
>>>>> Alias >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Wow, that was a long one! Feeling flatulent today? Take some Beano! HeyBub - 27 Apr 2007 13:27 GMT >> Microsoft profits are up on sales of Vista. >> [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > The fact that you think a de facto monopoly making record profits is a > good thing is pathetic. I think profits are good. And if good is good, better is better. By the way, what do you think companies or individuals DO with their profits? Put them in a sock behind the washer?
Monopolies (free market ones, not the government-sanctioned kind) are almost always good. For example, Standard Oil, the poster boy for evil monopolies, single-handedly drove down the price of Kerosene from $3.00/gallon to less than a nickle. In less than three years. Of course this put the whale oil people out of business but gave everyone else light. Ford, with a monopoly on the Model-T, put everyone in a car.
The ignorant and uninformed think that monopolies have no competition, that they have no incentive to improve. Nonsense. A monopoly's biggest competitor is itself! In the case of Microsoft, if it were not for a new operating system its revenue stream would stagnate. Further, the new OS has to be perceived as somehow better or few would buy it.
Julian - 27 Apr 2007 13:56 GMT >>> Microsoft profits are up on sales of Vista. >>> [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > operating system its revenue stream would stagnate. Further, the new OS > has to be perceived as somehow better or few would buy it. Alias is famously, fanatically, obsessed with other peoples money. I cite as evidence... http://tinyurl.com/362oer
Alias - 30 Apr 2007 18:07 GMT >>>> Microsoft profits are up on sales of Vista. >>>> [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > Alias is famously, fanatically, obsessed with other peoples money. > I cite as evidence... http://tinyurl.com/362oer Not my IP address. Nice try, though. Reading the posts, however, doesn't show that that Alias is obsessed with others' money and neither am I.
Alias
Julian - 30 Apr 2007 18:28 GMT >>>>> Microsoft profits are up on sales of Vista. >>>>> [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > Not my IP address. Nice try, though. Reading the posts, however, doesn't > show that that Alias is obsessed with others' money and neither am I. You can run but you can't hide.
Doris Day - MFB - 30 Apr 2007 20:10 GMT >>>>>> Microsoft profits are up on sales of Vista. >>>>>> [quoted text clipped - 33 lines] > > You can run but you can't hide. You can post but you certainly can't convince anyone that you know what you're talking about. :-)
Love and Kisses, Doris
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Alias - 27 Apr 2007 14:06 GMT >>> Microsoft profits are up on sales of Vista. >>> [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > system its revenue stream would stagnate. Further, the new OS has to be > perceived as somehow better or few would buy it. So when are you moving to Venezuela to start working for Hugo Chavez' groovy monopolies?
Alias
Dale White - 27 Apr 2007 14:13 GMT Well, since this is turning into a monoply debate, I'll dive in.
Is it your stance that we as consumers don't really need choice. One company per product is all we need for anything ?
I do think some companies that are labeled monoplies don't deserve such an evil title, but as a whole, anytime there is a pure monoply on a product, it's never good. I use to really root for Microsoft, but seeing how they can't stay out of court and reading about some of their practices has really soured me towards them. I don't see Bill Gates and company as a Henry Ford working to really bring computing to the masses, I see him more like a Barry Bonds, Out to win the title by whatever means he can get away with.
When the world Govts stop looking into Microsoft practices so much and MS opens up a little more, then I might go back to rooting for them. But right now, I don't think MS owning 90% of the desktop space is a good thing as a consumer, who knows where we would be if some of the smaller\smarter companies had of made it.
>>> Microsoft profits are up on sales of Vista.
> The ignorant and uninformed think that monopolies have no competition, > that they have no incentive to improve. Nonsense. A monopoly's biggest > competitor is itself! In the case of Microsoft, if it were not for a new > operating system its revenue stream would stagnate. Further, the new OS > has to be perceived as somehow better or few would buy it. Richard Urban - 27 Apr 2007 16:14 GMT > Well, since this is turning into a monoply debate, I'll dive in. > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > really soured me towards them. I don't see Bill Gates and company as a > Henry Ford working to really bring computing to the masses, ********************************************** ********************************************** As you state below, Microsoft has already done that. ********************************************** **********************************************
I see him more like a Barry
> Bonds, Out to win the title by whatever means he can get away with. > > When the world Govts stop looking into Microsoft practices so much and MS > opens up a little more, then I might go back to rooting for them. But > right now, I don't think MS owning 90% of the desktop space is a good > thing as a consumer ********************************************** ********************************************** Looks like Microsoft has already brought computing to the masses. ********************************************** **********************************************
, who knows where we would be if some of the smaller\smarter
> companies had of made it. > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >> operating system its revenue stream would stagnate. Further, the new OS >> has to be perceived as somehow better or few would buy it. How many people would instantly be out of work if everything Microsoft were to disappear over night.
What would Alias do?
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Richard Urban Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User (For email, remove the obvious from my address)
Quote from George Ankner: If you knew as much as you think you know, You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
Alias - 27 Apr 2007 16:20 GMT > How many people would instantly be out of work if everything Microsoft > were to disappear over night. Yeah, Ubuntu doesn't get viruses, malware, spyware, adware, root kits, etc., so a lot of repair techs would be out of work.
> What would Alias do? My work doesn't need MS to survive.
Alias
Richard Urban - 27 Apr 2007 16:25 GMT Go out on the street and tell it to someone who cares.
 Signature Regards,
Richard Urban Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User (For email, remove the obvious from my address)
Quote from George Ankner: If you knew as much as you think you know, You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
>> How many people would instantly be out of work if everything Microsoft >> were to disappear over night. [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Alias Alias - 27 Apr 2007 16:34 GMT > Go out on the street and tell it to someone who cares. If you didn't care, why did you ask? Stupidity? Senility? Dementia?
Alias
Nina DiBoy - 27 Apr 2007 18:58 GMT > Go out on the street and tell it to someone who cares. If you don't care, then why the heck did you ask?
> Richard Urban wrote: >> >> How many people would instantly be out of work if everything Microsoft were to disappear over night.
> Yeah, Ubuntu doesn't get viruses, malware, spyware, adware, root kits, etc., so a lot of repair techs would be out of work.
>> What would Alias do? > > My work doesn't need MS to survive. > > Alias
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Nina DiBoy - 27 Apr 2007 18:56 GMT <snippage>
> How many people would instantly be out of work if everything Microsoft > were to disappear over night. > > What would Alias do? Probably the same as me...switch to linux without skipping a beat.
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Julian - 28 Apr 2007 00:31 GMT >> Well, since this is turning into a monoply debate, I'll dive in. >> [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] > How many people would instantly be out of work if everything Microsoft > were to disappear over night. None. There'd be more jobs.
gsx@gsxnet.com - 28 Apr 2007 05:57 GMT LINUX sucks, i have used windows and vista, no comparison, windows rocks it G
> "Richarhttp://www.microsoft.com/sql/editions/express/features.mspxd Urban" > <richardurbanREMOVETHIS@hotmail.com> wrote in message [quoted text clipped - 46 lines] > > None. There'd be more jobs. nsag - 27 Apr 2007 15:41 GMT There is the real possibility that the SEC will investigate Microsoft for inflating sales figures of Vista.
DP - 27 Apr 2007 15:54 GMT Source for the assertion there is a "real possibility." I'm thinking you just made that up.
> There is the real possibility that the SEC will investigate Microsoft for > inflating sales figures of Vista. Richard Urban - 27 Apr 2007 16:15 GMT Why is that? Microsoft can say anything it wants in press releases. As long as it doesn't effect their accounting there is no problem.
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> There is the real possibility that the SEC will investigate Microsoft for > inflating sales figures of Vista. Alias - 27 Apr 2007 16:24 GMT > Why is that? Microsoft can say anything it wants in press releases. As > long as it doesn't effect their accounting there is no problem. Um, does price gouching ring a bell?
Alias
Richard Urban - 27 Apr 2007 16:33 GMT Not really. If the price is too high people will not buy it in the numbers that Microsoft expects. Then Microsoft will lower the price. I have been paying roughly the same for all full install NT versions of Windows since NT 3.1. This goes back to July 27, 1993 for NT 3.1.
Can you understand this? The price is substantially the same.
 Signature Regards,
Richard Urban Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User (For email, remove the obvious from my address)
Quote from George Ankner: If you knew as much as you think you know, You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!
>> Why is that? Microsoft can say anything it wants in press releases. As >> long as it doesn't effect their accounting there is no problem. > > Um, does price gouching ring a bell? > > Alias Alias - 27 Apr 2007 16:48 GMT > Not really. If the price is too high people will not buy it in the > numbers that Microsoft expects. Now you know why MS won't release the numbers. They're ashamed it's doing so badly.
> Then Microsoft will lower the price. I > have been paying roughly the same for all full install NT versions of > Windows since NT 3.1. This goes back to July 27, 1993 for NT 3.1. > > Can you understand this? The price is substantially the same. Um, in Spain, the price for retail Vista Ultimate is over 800 US Dollars and retail XP Pro is going for over 600 US Dollars. I doubt very seriously that you paid that much for NT 3.1.
In the UK, it's even more pricey.
Oops.
Alias
Doris Day - MFB - 27 Apr 2007 17:36 GMT > Not really. If the price is too high people will not buy it in the numbers > that Microsoft expects. Then Microsoft will lower the price. I have been [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > Can you understand this? The price is substantially the same. And that has become a major problem. Whereas competition has lowered the price of hardware and put much pressure on hardware producers, the Microsoft tax has remained essentially the same over the years. This is not good for a number of reasons. It certainly puts pressure on the hardware manufacturers, to stay competitive in the price cutting of hardware, to build systems with "cheaper" components. This cannot be good for the consumer. It is only the monopolistic domination enjoyed by Microsoft that has allowed it to maintain its relatively high software tax while system prices as a whole have plummeted over these years. At some point there is a breaking point and that is inferior hardware products for the consumer.
Love and Kisses, Doris
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Frank - 27 Apr 2007 16:26 GMT > There is the real possibility that the SEC will investigate Microsoft > for inflating sales figures of Vista. Maybe in your dreams! Care to quote a real reference (like from the SEC) alluding to your comment? Frank
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