Windows Forum / Windows Vista / General Topics / August 2007
How to Enable Indexing in Vista
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KevinB - 07 Aug 2007 05:32 GMT Hi- My indexing has been turned off (I believe by Google Desktop, which slowed the system down tremendously).
Can anyone tell me how to enable indexing? I've tried the "Control Panel > System Maintenance > Indexing Options" and all the popup says is "Indexing is not running" with no way to start it. All of the buttons are grayed out except for "Close."
Any help will be added to your karmic bank account!
Thanks! --Kevin
Synapse Syndrome - 07 Aug 2007 05:52 GMT > Hi- My indexing has been turned off (I believe by Google Desktop, which > slowed the system down tremendously). [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > not running" with no way to start it. All of the buttons are grayed out > except for "Close." Try going to Control Panel and using the search box to search for Services. I am not using a Vista machine at the moment, so try looking for something like Indexing Service or something like that and set it to start automatically.
> Any help will be added to your karmic bank account! Good, I have a big overdraft.
ss.
Xenomorph - 07 Aug 2007 05:59 GMT make sure the "Windows Search" service is enabled and running.
 Signature http://xenomorph.net/
> Hi- My indexing has been turned off (I believe by Google Desktop, which > slowed the system down tremendously). [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Thanks! > --Kevin robert.stojanov@gmail.com - 07 Aug 2007 07:37 GMT > Hi- My indexing has been turned off (I believe by Google Desktop, which > slowed the system down tremendously). [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Thanks! > --Kevin At the Run dialog write down services.msc after starting search for Indexing service and see if it is started if not make it to start automatically. These should work.
Jerry - 07 Aug 2007 11:21 GMT Try this: Go to Computer and Right-Click on each Partition and select properties. At the bottom of the Properties box you should have an Indexing Option. The box should be checked for Indexing to be turned on. BTW it should have been on by default.
>> Hi- My indexing has been turned off (I believe by Google Desktop, which >> slowed the system down tremendously). [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > Indexing service and see if it is started if not make it to start > automatically. These should work. Celegans - 07 Aug 2007 16:57 GMT > Try this: Go to Computer and Right-Click on each Partition and select > properties. At the bottom of the Properties box you should have an > Indexing Option. The box should be checked for Indexing to be turned on. > BTW it should have been on by default. So it's not possible to search a CD/DVD if it's not indexed? Is this a new design "feature"?
If one is working with networked drives that are mapped to Linux resources, it's not possible to search files on these drives until they're indexed? What if I don't want to index GB of files on a Linux network resource, but what if I want to search selected wildcarded files in a selected directory for a specific target string on that resource? This type of search worked in Windows 2000. This search cannot not be done in Vista because the Linux network drive is not indexed for Vista?
Searching "faster" with indexed files is nice, but what about all the files that cannot be searched at all now? What about all the files that are not indexed? Why isn't there an Vista Ultimate tool that allows searching all files whether they are indexed or not? What did I really get for "Ultimate" Vista?
Since Windows Vista search is defective, one now must buy a 3-rd party tool, like SSScanner to do searches that used to work in Windows 2000? http://www.kryltech.com/scanner.htm Shouldn't Microsoft just buy Kryloff Technologies and help Vista customers with a better search -- one that can always work? Note Kryloff even markets their product "SSScanner enhances searches in Windows Vista" on their web page. My take: SSScanner fixes a defective Vista search strategy. I've now got to pay Kryloff Technologies $99.95 to fix Vista's search. Can I send the bill to Bill?
Swingman - 07 Aug 2007 18:20 GMT "Celegans" wrote in message
> Can I send the bill to Bill? Sure you can ... but get someone competent to help, as you would obviously injure yourself attempting to do it by yourself.
 Signature www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 6/1/07
Dave Wood [MS] - 07 Aug 2007 18:31 GMT All of the things you describe here can be done with the built-in Vista search. If the indexer is not running or if you are searching a non-indexed location then search is done without the index, which may be slower but will still work.
>> Try this: Go to Computer and Right-Click on each Partition and select >> properties. At the bottom of the Properties box you should have an [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] > defective Vista search strategy. I've now got to pay Kryloff > Technologies $99.95 to fix Vista's search. Can I send the bill to Bill? Celegans - 09 Aug 2007 17:16 GMT So what am I missing? In XP, I right click on a folder using Windows Explorer and select search. There are separate search options, which I found quite intuitive: - "All or part of the file name" - "A word or phrase in the file"
I almost always want to specify some sort of wild card for the files I'm looking for, and I often am looking for a specific string in these files. I quite often NEED both of these fields. Unlike Windows 2000, XP was a bit lame when it didn't search all the files, and hits could be missed until one found the obscure registry key to enable searching all files. I spent hours trying to figure out why I couldn't find files in XP because of some obscure change made by Microsoft. Windows Vista continues that frustration by making searches harder than it was in Windows 2000 or before.
Now let's do the same thing in Vista. Right click on a folder to search using Windows Explorer, and select "Search...".
There is a mostly blank screen with a note at the top saying "To begin, type in the search box". Can I assume that this search box only knows about what's been indexed? This whole screen is wasted space and could show more options like before, but one must now click on the nearby icon for "Advanced Search". Did usability experts really design this?
The Advanced Search screen is what I really want to see when I select "Search" from Windows Explorer. This new Advance Search screen shows mostly blank space (why is all the space wasted?), but doesn't show an option that is equivalent to searching for "A word or phrase in the file". Where is this search option "A word or phrase in a file" now "hidden"?
The help system has proven futile. Online searches via Google have proven futile. I have already spent hours searching for why search doesn't work in Vista. There is a checkbox for "include non-indexed, hidden, and system files (might be slow)," which I'm assuming will search for files that are not indexed, but how do I search for a particular string in a file? (The command prompt "findstr" command isn't a good answer.)
I now launch a VMware virtual machine running Windows 2000, where I've mapped my Vista file system. I must do searches from Windows 2000 on my Vista machine to find files containing specific strings because Vista's search either doesn't work or has a new obtuse user interface that is not intuitive nor is explained anywhere I can find. At some point I may have to pay the $100 to use SSScaner, because I figure out how to get search to work in Vista.
I have had similar frustrations with Office 2007. Simple things that took seconds, now take hours to find, or seemingly cannot be done. Recently I wanted to split a table in Word 2007, which should have taken about two seconds. Over an hour later after various Google searches, I finally stumbled onto this online tool that shows the old Word 2003 interface and how the same thing is done in Word 2007. You can select what you'd like to do in the Word 2003 simulated interface, then an animation shows what to do an simulated Word 2007 user interface. http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/word/HA100744321033.aspx At least in the "split table" case, this worked when online help didn't address "split table".
If Microsoft really wanted to help its existing customers, this tool should have been part of Word 2007, so one could quickly find out how to do a familiar operation. Is there any similar tool that Microsoft provides that does this with Windows Vista? Can I go to an online tool somewhere in Windows XP, and be told where in Vista I can do the same thing, like searching for a string in a file that may not be indexed? Looking for search terms in the help system too often is futile, even when using the exact name of the feature.
There are many good new features in Vista and Office 2007, but the frustration level of not being able to do old simple things is also quite high -- needlessly.
> All of the things you describe here can be done with the built-in Vista > search. If the indexer is not running or if you are searching a > non-indexed location then search is done without the index, which may be > slower but will still work. Dave Wood [MS] - 09 Aug 2007 19:06 GMT - If you search from a specific folder then the search box searches all of that folder, regardless of whether it has been indexed.
- The search box searches filenames and contents {and all other meta-data about the files}. One caveat is that in non-indexed locations, by default only filenames are searched. This behavior can be changed in the Search Options dialog "What to Search -> Always search filenames and contents".
- If you just want to search for just filenames and not contents then use the Advanced Search "Name" edit box, or type "name:" before the name in the search box on the top-right.
> So what am I missing? In XP, I right click on a folder using Windows > Explorer and select search. There are separate search options, which I [quoted text clipped - 71 lines] >> non-indexed location then search is done without the index, which may be >> slower but will still work. Celegans - 13 Aug 2007 20:29 GMT Re: How to Enable Indexing in Vista
> All of the things you describe here can be done with the built-in Vista > search. If the indexer is not running or if you are searching a > non-indexed location then search is done without the index, which may be > slower but will still work. Doug. Thank you for your response, but the Windows Vista search simply does not work adequately like it did in Windows 95, Windows 98, and Windows 2000, and Windows XP (after a fix http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;EN-US;309173 ). Microsoft should fix this problem post haste so scientists and engineers can use Vista to find scientific data -- which is what I'm trying to do.
See this article with history of Windows search and how Vista has made things worse, not better (Vista has brought improvements, but how can they be appreciated when things that worked now fail?)
File Search in Vista Worse than Windows 95, 98, 2000 and XP? http://www.pcmagvote.com/story.php?title=File_Search_in_Vista_Worse_than_Windows _95_98_2000_and_XP-1
Do you have a solution for scenario #2 in the comments to that article?
Comments from National Instruments: http://zone.ni.com/devzone/cda/tut/p/id/5604#toc6 "While Windows Vista searching capabilities may satisfy general users, they MAY NOT BE ADEQUATE for engineers and scientists. Windows Vista helps you quickly locate saved files based on metadata, but you cannot search file content to identify meaningful information." "For example, you might have thousands of files containing data from experiments or tests. To make educated decisions based on that information stored in those files, you must not only carry out complex searches to find the files but also identify key information or establish trends within the files; neither are tasks that Instant Search can accomplish. To find and interpret data rapidly, you need additional tools, such as the National Instruments DIAdem DataFinder."
Why won't Microsoft admit that search is a problem in Vista, that search in Vista is "not adequate" and do something about it, instead of frustrating scientists and engineers who are trying to search scientific/engineering data using Vista?
Dave - 13 Aug 2007 20:47 GMT You could make sure to use some of the 200 file types that WDS can index... http://www.microsoft.com/windows/desktopsearch/technical/searchtype.mspx
http://channel9.msdn.com/wiki/default.aspx/Channel9.DesktopSearchIFilters
http://www.ifilter.org/
> Re: How to Enable Indexing in Vista > [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > frustrating scientists and engineers who are trying to search > scientific/engineering data using Vista? Celegans - 13 Aug 2007 21:19 GMT > You could make sure to use some of the 200 file types that WDS can > index... [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > http://www.ifilter.org/ Dave, this is NOT a workable solution.
Scientific instruments often create their own file types and sometimes these files need to be searched. Sometimes the files were created years ago. Sometimes the same file types are used by different vendors, so the file type alone doesn't say what's in a file. Can Microsoft distinguish between an FCS file that is Fluorescent Correlation Spectroscopy data and an FCS file that has Flow Cytometry Standard data? Or FCS files that have very different versions by vendor of Fluorescent Correlation Spectroscopy data?
Give us a way to search in Vista that DOES NOT require indexing. Why is VISTA taking a feature away that's worked since Windows 95? Searching for a string and file filter at the same time is so difficult?
How can I get Windows Explorer for Windows 2000 working under Windows Vista?. Is the capability in Windows Explorer from Windows 2000 too much to ask for in Vista so we can search scientific data? Just copying the Windows Explorer from Windows 2000 to Vista doesn't work. Can the registry be hacked to make it work?
I don't want everything on my machines indexed, but I DO want to be able to do a guided search from a specified directory. Microsoft's "blind search of everything" approach is not acceptable. Why isn't Microsoft willing to help scientists search files without imposing indexing by Microsoft?
So, I'll never be able to search a Linux file system with scientific data until Microsoft indexes all the Linux files?
I can't believe how much time I've wasted trying to get a workable search in Vista. I can't believe how much time it took to figure out the search in XP was flawed and was not looking at all files.
>> Why won't Microsoft admit that search is a problem in Vista, that search >> in Vista is "not adequate" and do something about it, instead of >> frustrating scientists and engineers who are trying to search >> scientific/engineering data using Vista? Dave Wood [MS] - 14 Aug 2007 00:08 GMT Just to be clear my name is Dave {well David}, not Doug and my last name is Wood, not Woods, and I'm not the same person as the other "Dave" also posting on this thread. With that cleared up, I have a couple of comments, but I don't have a perfect solution to what you are asking ...
First off, I guess I should say that I'm an engineer and I use Vista search everyday. Okay I'm a developer at Microsoft on the Windows Search team, so I would say that wouldn't I? But there are a number of scenarios where the indexed Vista search has really made my life easier. Searching my Outlook mail - I have a few thousand mails in my Inbox and a few hundred thousand older mails in other folders. Keeping track of all my mail is hard, and searching this stuff using the older search was unusably slow, but now takes only a few seconds on Vista. Similarly searching all the docs, messages, html files etc. in all my project folders in c:\users\dave and c:\users\public works great for me.
The default search options are a complex compromise between making the search fast, returning relevant results, being as complete as possible, and not taking too much system resources. Microsoft aims to provide features that work out of the box for the majority of users without customization. We then, in principle, provide advanced options for people to customize the search behavior if they need to. There are lots of advanced options, but there are cases like yours where I do worry that we haven't provided enough control - there is no "search unknown extensions as text" option, as you say. This feedback has definitely been received by us.
One of the problems with searching ALL file types is that it assumes all files are text-based, which an awful lot of files types are not. And even if they are text-based the chances that they contain meaningful human-readable data gets smaller, which tends to mean the likelihood of false matches in search results goes up. As you say, Microsoft really doesn't know what an .FCS file is if there's no associated app. We don't know if it is text, binary, database, executable, office doc, excel spreadsheet, XML etc. So we do the safest thing and don't search it. But I agree it's sometimes frustrating not to have that option.
One thing to note is that in the Indexing Control Panel you can add any individual unknown extension and set it to be searched. So if there's a specific file type like .FCS you can add this and the changes get stored in the registry and future searches {indexed or non-indexed} will search this file as plain text.
And finally, of course I can't comment on marketing materials promoting a product put out by another company.
Dave Wood
>> You could make sure to use some of the 200 file types that WDS can >> index... [quoted text clipped - 41 lines] >>> frustrating scientists and engineers who are trying to search >>> scientific/engineering data using Vista? Celegans - 14 Aug 2007 17:17 GMT Dave Wood:
I work with thousands and thousands of scientific files -- from Windows, Linux and sometimes Macs. Many Linux folks don't bother with file extensions and don't "honor" Microsoft's rules. So I can't search Linux files now in Vista? I don't work with Macs much, but a few years ago I wrote a program to add Windows file extensions to many Mac files when they were imported to Windows. If Microsoft doesn't "bless" a file, it cannot be searched now in Vista? Don't you understand how myopic your current design is? This isn't Google searching the universe. I want to search MY PC and Windows Vista will not search all MY files on MY PC without indexing.
Perhaps it's good that you made your life simpler with the search that Microsoft implemented, but perhaps Microsoft should worry more about customers with search problems. I could agree that indexing mail may be a good idea, but I don't agree that indexing all file systems everywhere is needed before a file search can be done by Vista.
Microsoft needs to make decisions that work for the majority, but what about minority rights here? You decide that now I cannot solve certain problems that could be solved using Windows for over a decade! How myopic was that decision? Microsoft made search fast, but it gives the wrong (i.e., incomplete) answers sometimes? This isn't Google where finding anything of interest is better than nothing. I want to search a very specific machine (often MY machine) for very specific files (usually MY FILES), sometimes for very specific string(s), and Microsoft has made that task impossible with Windows Vista? Isn't it a bit arrogant of Microsoft to take away tools that have worked since Windows 95 and make all search decisions for customers? I paid more for "Ultimate" Vista, why can you at least let "Ultimate" Vista users search all their files?
I don't want FORCED INDEXING OF ALL FILES -- the Index Control Panel is a BAD IDEA. Give me Windows 2000 Windows Explorer and let me decide how files will be searched -- let me use the Vista search index for a "quick and dirty" search, or let me use "brute force" in an exhaustive search of all files. Why can't we be given that option? I may want to occasionally search binary files for strings, but I never want to index what may be in those binary files.
I have spent years (decades) organizing files. I have personal files that go back to 1980 -- yes files that existed before PCs did. I usually don't need the "blind search" that Microsoft is pushing. You guys want to index only certain files (you'll never get the list right) and then you can only find things in the index. I want (I NEED) a guided search. I can get close. I usually know what directories likely contain the files of interest. Sometimes the files are mostly binary, but I may be looking for a particular string. Sometimes I'm only searching by file names. Sometimes I want a combination of filename(s) and particular string(s). Why should Microsoft care if I'm trying to search binary files containing scientific data that sometimes have strings of interest?
I will advise against us buying Windows Vista until Microsoft fixes the Vista search problem (but Microsoft probably doesn't care about a few hundred licenses). Our IT people already refuse to even look at Vista for other reasons -- I'm a maverick for looking at it now..
Is a 3rd party search tool my only real option since Microsoft will never admit how bad the current design is? Ultimately, will Microsoft "fix" the "problem" by a combination of marketing hype and ignoring it? I need a solution, but Microsoft is not helping.
Repeating this question which would be a "good enough" solution: How can I get Windows Explorer from Windows 2000 working in Windows Vista? (without using a VMware virtual machine)
> Just to be clear my name is Dave {well David}, not Doug and my last name > is Wood, not Woods, and I'm not the same person as the other "Dave" also [quoted text clipped - 43 lines] > > Dave Wood mjones@retailready.com - 31 Aug 2007 18:32 GMT I am reposting something here which I posted into another thread dealing with the same issue.
FYI - You don't need to "index" anything in order for the content searching capabilities of Vista to be better than any previous versions of Windows. It is full adequte for engineers and scientists. The problem is that no one has taken the time to really mess around and try and resolve the problem for these types of users. I have done so this morning and finally figured it all out. But... scientists should have figured it out before I did lol.
Here is my original post in the other thread from this morning:
Hello
This post may make everyone happy. I had this issue with XP before when trying to search through the contents of thousands of EDI files on a mapped network drive. The Microsoft KB article fixed the problem. So... I just set up my new workstation this past week with Windows Vista Ultimate and guess what? I have the same issue. When XP first came out I got the hotfix from my MAPS support before service pack 1. I called them yesterday to see if there was a fix for Vista, nope. They told me to try the XP fix and low and behold... IT WORKS. Here are the steps you need to take:
First go and open up this MS KB because you'll need it: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/309173/EN-US/
1. In the search settings on Vista you NEED to turn on the setting to "...always search file names and contents..." or whatever is says (I am not going back there to look at the exact syntax) lol. Otherwise it will only search the contents of indexed files.
2. You need to open up at least 1 of each of the "unknown" file types with notepad and tell Vista to ALWAYS use notepad for this type of file so that it will register the file type. I am searching through files named *.TDF, *.ORD. *.BAK, etc.
3. BACK UP YOUR REGISTRY before doing any modifications...
4. You need to create the DWORD registry setting (or set it to 1 if it is there) in the method 2 part of the KB article.
5. You then need to create the registry keys for "PersistentHandler" for each of the newly registered file types AS SHOWN at the bottom of method 1 in the KB article. Make sure you copy and paste the value that is shown for the text filter into the default - don't go trying to type it out each time.
6. REBOOT or log off and back on. If you don't do this IT WON'T WORK!
I hope that everyone will benefit from this post but I obvioulsy offer NO WARRANTY and/or support if you destroy your registry lol...
Anyways, it works perfectly for me as I am now able to search through thousands of files on a mapped netowrk drive and I am happy so you should be as well once you get it all straightened out. Don't blame Microsoft either - they are just doing what is best for the majority of users by making the search fast and effective - most users are not looking for text within a 1/2 million files that are wacky unregistered extensions.
Have fun! Marc
mjones@retailready.com - 31 Aug 2007 18:35 GMT Sorry I forgot this part again...
I should have mentioned that in step 2 - if the files are too big to open in notepad then you will need to register the file types manually in the registry then enter the key for each in step 5.
Dave Wood [MS] - 31 Aug 2007 18:43 GMT Yes. Note that this is basically doing the same thing as opening the Indexing Options Control Panel -> Advanced -> File Types and using the "Add New Extension" button to add the file extensions you want indexed. I think this will make basically the same changes in the registry as you are doing yourself.
>I am reposting something here which I posted into another thread > dealing with the same issue. [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] > Have fun! > Marc mjones@retailready.com - 31 Aug 2007 19:12 GMT Yes you can add a file type there but you can't create the PersistentHandler key there - you have to edit the registry to do so.
On another note - I have no clue how you can make this work for files with no extensions (no file type at all) because you can't create a class entry that is null. You can add the file type with just a period and no extension but it doesn't apply to files with no extension unles you name them like "something. " not just "something "
So I can't help with that. But, you can use findstr in a command prompt to search through files with no period and no extension. I have never had to do that before until I just tested it now.
Marc
Dave Wood [MS] - 31 Aug 2007 21:22 GMT No the Control Panel absolutely does add the PersistentHandler into the registry. In the Indexing Options Control Panel on the File Types tab, type your extension, click Add New Extension and then select "Index File Properties and Contents". Then check your registry. I just tried to be sure.
> Yes you can add a file type there but you can't create the > PersistentHandler key there - you have to edit the registry to do so. [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > > Marc
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