Windows Forum / Windows Vista / General Topics / May 2008
XP or Vista
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Alan Justice - 11 Feb 2008 18:25 GMT All my programs are starting to screw up (PC with Win 98, OE6, IE6). I have little confidence in my ability to trouble shoot (my PhD is not in computers), so I may just buy a new computer. I have XP on my other computer (although the hard drive did crash once), and have heard that Vista has too many bugs. Where can I get an unbiased review? (I only need minimal configuration, for internet, and no network. My other computer is the workhorse.)
 Signature - Alan Justice
kevpan815@nospam.hotmail.com - 11 Feb 2008 18:24 GMT Neither, Just FYI. My Operating System's Of Choice Is: Either Microsoft Windows Server 2008 RTM, Or Open Source Linux Ubuntu 7.10 RTW, Just FYI. I Am Very Proud To Call Myself Alias Number 2, Just FYI.
> All my programs are starting to screw up (PC with Win 98, OE6, IE6). I > have [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > minimal configuration, for internet, and no network. My other computer is > the workhorse.) Bill Yanaire - 11 Feb 2008 22:15 GMT Another useless answer.
The best thing to do is reinstall XP from scratch and install your programs again. This should fix the issues with your system. If you want a new computer that's another story, but if you are looking to save money, do a reinstall and your system will seem like new again. Once you reinstall XP, do the updates immediately, install the Virus software and you should be good to go.
> Neither, Just FYI. My Operating System's Of Choice Is: Either Microsoft > Windows Server 2008 RTM, Or Open Source Linux Ubuntu 7.10 RTW, Just FYI. I [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> is >> the workhorse.) Steve Thackery - 11 Feb 2008 18:31 GMT Either would be fine for your needs. Sounds like you've a number of legacy programs, so probably XP would be more appropriate.
SteveT
Mike Hall - MVP - 11 Feb 2008 18:35 GMT > All my programs are starting to screw up (PC with Win 98, OE6, IE6). I > have [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > minimal configuration, for internet, and no network. My other computer is > the workhorse.) If you can hold off until some time in March, you will then be able to buy a computer which has Vista SP1 pre-installed. Ensure that you do actually get Vista SP1.
Vista has come a long way since the early days, and the SP1 update takes Vista to a new level (higher). What you might want to do in the meantime is check that all of your external devices and programs are Vista compatible. This requires donkey work, going from one manufacturer/author website to another..
 Signature Mike Hall - MVP http://msmvps.com/blogs/mikehall/default.aspx
Previously Tiberius - 11 Feb 2008 18:38 GMT Hello.. you will get the best unbiased view from me.
Listen Vista indeed was terrible before SP1... I was the biggest vista basher of the galaxy! It was slow, unstable and well the total experience was not good.
But now I got my hands on SP1 (service pack 1) and I have installed vista and I can say that its a nice experience... It works only slightly slower than XP now... but apart from that its ok.
What you will have to know before you decide to get Vista:
1) I would suggest you reasearch and get Vista Ultimate or buisness from a seller that gives DEGRADE rights from Vista to XP. What is this? Well if you get one of the versions I mentioned above, then you also have the right to install XP for free. This gives you much flexibility.
2) Check and reasearch if the printers or scanners or other peripherals you may want to use from the OLD system have drivers for Vista, or if the XP ones work with Vista, or if vista has built in drivers for these
3) Have in mind that you will probably lose some time (and money) if you have old versions of programs that will not work well with vista.
And most of all you will get a computer that has vista WITH SP1!!!! Without SP1 Vista is horrible!
I hope this helps a bit, and if you need any clarification ask and I will help you.
> All my programs are starting to screw up (PC with Win 98, OE6, IE6). I > have [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > minimal configuration, for internet, and no network. My other computer is > the workhorse.) George W. Barrowcliff - 11 Feb 2008 19:02 GMT > Hello.. you will get the best unbiased view from me. > [quoted text clipped - 39 lines] >> computer is >> the workhorse.) I bought a new Compaq with Vista Home on it and have had quite a bit of problems with my existing software that I had installed on my (now) dead XP Pro laptop.
I put Office 2003 Pro and most programs work except when saving files to a different directory than the default causes a 30 second delay that seems like everything is locked up. Then it frees up and the directory will change. I am still trying to figure out where my outbox emails go when I send email from Outlook.
I spent a day and a half trying to get Motorola Phone Tools installed only to give up and go to my XP Pro desktop.
I had to buy a new antivirus because the Norton V10.2 would not run on Vista, I needed Norton 10.4 and it was a cost to upgrade.
I would be happy to go back to XP Pro if I had known about the DEGRADE capability or for that matter is the DEGRADE capability built in and just has to be purchased? Or can I purchase XP Pro and have it install over the top of Vista?
Is the SP1 going to have more software compatability than the original or is it more for stability, security and speed?
TIA, GWB
Previously Tiberius - 11 Feb 2008 20:02 GMT MS does not give degrade rights to Vista Home.. only Ultimate and Business. BUT, you can always ask the guys you bought it from WHAT you can do to get the degrade rights (they will allow you only if they offer the same computer with XP drivers... unfortunatly not everyone produces XP drivers for new model computers so they dont offer support).
Apart from that.. wait a few weeks to see how much Vista will improve with SP1...
As I said in my previous post.. everything seems to just work with SP1 while before that Vista was full of frustration.
I would bet that problem you have with office2003 will be fixed... There is a latest service pack 3 for office2004 that boast vista compatibility improvments.. have you installed that? Here is a link for that http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/downloads/CD010798601033.aspx
> Is the SP1 going to have more software compatability than the original or > is it more for stability, security and speed? From what I have seen on this PC running Vista with the FINAL version of SP1, its like a totally different experience! It works far faster more compatible and stable... I didnt think MS would fix vista but it seems they have done a good job.
About norton.. well I avoid all norton products ! You should have posted here and asked.. I would have told you about avast HOME free edition that is free and its good... if you are curious have a look here and look for the free home edition www.avast.com
Tell me if this helps somewhat... I really think you should wait until SP1 for vista will be available (in a couple of weeks they say mid March) and try installing SP3 for Office.
If you need anything else Ill be around
>> Hello.. you will get the best unbiased view from me. >> [quoted text clipped - 65 lines] > > TIA, GWB Previously Tiberius - 11 Feb 2008 20:04 GMT correction I meant "There is a latest service pack 3 for ****office2003****"
> MS does not give degrade rights to Vista Home.. only Ultimate and > Business. [quoted text clipped - 104 lines] >> >> TIA, GWB Michael Jennings - 11 Feb 2008 20:10 GMT > I would be happy to go back to XP Pro if I had known about the DEGRADE > capability or for that matter is the DEGRADE capability built in and just has > to be purchased? Or can I purchase XP Pro and have it install over the top of > Vista? Home versions of Vista have no downgrade rights. If Compaq does not provide XP drivers for the computer you bought from them, it will be difficult or impossible for you to run XP on it, even if you purchase XP.
Rojo Habe - 11 Feb 2008 18:50 GMT If you're buying a PC with a preinstalled operating system you probably won't have much choice - it'll likely be Vista. Either should suit your needs. Vista took a bit of getting used to for me, but since you're coming from Win98 the same will probably apply to either of them for you.
XP is no more buggy than any other OS (cue the hail of Linux supporters but you did ask for an UNBIASED opinion). If it's a choice of XP or Vista, and you're going to buy one of those separately and install it on a fresh machine yourself, Vista will almost certainly be cheaper.
Do check for compatibility with all your old software before buying. Vista is notoriously incompatible in this regard. It doesn't even fully support Office 2000, and that's a (albeit obsolescent) Microsoft product.
Both versions include a compatibility wizard for older programs, and quite often running a program in Windows 98 mode will solve any problems you may have. If in doubt, XP might be the safer option here but bear in mind it too is eventually going to become obsolete.
> All my programs are starting to screw up (PC with Win 98, OE6, IE6). I > have [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > minimal configuration, for internet, and no network. My other computer is > the workhorse.) silver - 13 Feb 2008 21:24 GMT Rojo Habe;609654 Wrote:
> Do check for compatibility with all your old software before buying. > Vista > is notoriously incompatible in this regard. It doesn't even fully > support > Office 2000, and that's a (albeit obsolescent) Microsoft product. *False. Office 2000 is perfectly compatible with Vista.*
 Signature silver
Ken Blake, MVP - 14 Feb 2008 16:16 GMT > Rojo Habe;609654 Wrote: > > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > *False. Office 2000 is perfectly compatible with Vista.* "Perfectly"? Are you aware of the issue of Outlook not remembering your password? I wouldn't call that "perfect."
Other than that, though, I'm not aware of any lack of compatibility.
 Signature Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP - Windows Desktop Experience Please Reply to the Newsgroup
silver - 14 Feb 2008 22:21 GMT Password? what password, why would I need a password.?
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ray - 11 Feb 2008 19:35 GMT > All my programs are starting to screw up (PC with Win 98, OE6, IE6). I > have little confidence in my ability to trouble shoot (my PhD is not in [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > need minimal configuration, for internet, and no network. My other > computer is the workhorse.) IMHO - if there is no particular reason why you would want vista then it might be better to do xp. DELL, for one, offers computers with xp installed instead of vista. It will require some looking to find computers with xp or another alternative instead of vista, but they exist - it's up to you whether it's worth the bother.
Frank - 11 Feb 2008 19:43 GMT > All my programs are starting to screw up (PC with Win 98, OE6, IE6). I have > little confidence in my ability to trouble shoot (my PhD is not in [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > minimal configuration, for internet, and no network. My other computer is > the workhorse.) Go with Vista...it's more secure and why buy old technology? Frank
Ken Blake, MVP - 11 Feb 2008 21:40 GMT > All my programs are starting to screw up (PC with Win 98, OE6, IE6). I have > little confidence in my ability to trouble shoot (my PhD is not in > computers), so I may just buy a new computer. Why? It would seem that if "all [your] programs are starting to screw up," worst case, you could solve the problems without any troubleshooting by reinstalling Windows and all your programs. Why do you need a new computer?
I'm not trying to talk you out of buying a new computer if that's what you want, but that reason makes no sense to me.
> I have XP on my other > computer (although the hard drive did crash once), and have heard that Vista > has too many bugs. Where can I get an unbiased review? Here's my view:
1. If you're reading about problems *here* for example, in the newsgroups, this is where people come with their problems, not with their successes. You get a very distorted view of what's going on in the real world here; as someone once said, "hang around a transmission shop and you will think that all cars have transmission problems."
2. Most problems, by far, that people report have nothing to do with defects in the software. They result from people's ignorance, from bad or inadequate hardware, from old drivers, from viruses, from spyware, and so on. And except for very rare situations, they always get a fix for their problems, and in most cases, that fix is a very simple one to implement.
You may not think my view is unbiased, but I run Vista here and am very happy with it. I have no problems with it at all. I know many others who have experiences similar to mine.
> (I only need > minimal configuration, for internet, and no network. My other computer is > the workhorse.) Then if you get a new computer I see no reason for you not to get Vista. But note two things:
1. make sure you get a powerful enough machine. In particular, I would get 2GB of RAM
2. Vista is different in many ways from XP, and it will undoubtedly take you some time to learn and get accustomed to the differences. That experience can be frustrating at first.
 Signature Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP - Windows Desktop Experience Please Reply to the Newsgroup
Alan Justice - 12 Feb 2008 18:34 GMT All good points. But tell me: To reinstall all the programs, won't I lose what's on the computer now? Not everything is saved in "my documents," so I may not even be able to find it all to back it up. Or will reinstallation leave that all alone?
 Signature - Alan Justice
> > All my programs are starting to screw up (PC with Win 98, OE6, IE6). I have > > little confidence in my ability to trouble shoot (my PhD is not in [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] > take you some time to learn and get accustomed to the differences. > That experience can be frustrating at first. Ken Blake, MVP - 12 Feb 2008 19:31 GMT > All good points. But tell me: To reinstall all the programs, won't I lose > what's on the computer now? If you reinstall Windows cleanly, yes, you will lose everything that's on the computer.
But that's no different than if you buy a new computer. That won't have what was on the old computer either.
> Not everything is saved in "my documents," so I > may not even be able to find it all to back it up. Then that's a very serious issue that you need to address. But again, you have that problem whether you reinstall Windows on the old computer or buy a new one.
And most important, you need to be aware of the need to *always* have a current backup of anything that you can't afford to lose. That need doesn't suddenly appear when you are considering reinstalling or changing computers. You are always vulnerable to the loss of everything on your drive, for a wide variety of reasons.
Read this article I recently wrote on backup: http://www.computorcompanion.com/LPMArticle.asp?ID=314
> Or will reinstallation > leave that all alone? [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] > > take you some time to learn and get accustomed to the differences. > > That experience can be frustrating at first.
 Signature Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP - Windows Desktop Experience Please Reply to the Newsgroup
Alan Justice - 13 Feb 2008 17:58 GMT Okay, thanks. One more thing. To reinstall, should I first format c:? It seems that's the only way to be sure to eliminate all the accumulated viruses and such.
 Signature - Alan Justice
> > All good points. But tell me: To reinstall all the programs, won't I lose > > what's on the computer now? [quoted text clipped - 75 lines] > > > take you some time to learn and get accustomed to the differences. > > > That experience can be frustrating at first. Ken Blake, MVP - 13 Feb 2008 20:27 GMT > Okay, thanks. One more thing. To reinstall, should I first format c:? It > seems that's the only way to be sure to eliminate all the accumulated > viruses and such. This is Windows 98? Yes, format the drive first.
> > > All good points. But tell me: To reinstall all the programs, won't I > lose [quoted text clipped - 79 lines] > > > > take you some time to learn and get accustomed to the differences. > > > > That experience can be frustrating at first.
 Signature Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP - Windows Desktop Experience Please Reply to the Newsgroup
thetruthhurts @homail.com - 11 Feb 2008 23:13 GMT >All my programs are starting to screw up (PC with Win 98, OE6, IE6). I have >little confidence in my ability to trouble shoot (my PhD is not in [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >minimal configuration, for internet, and no network. My other computer is >the workhorse.) For minimal computing either should work. I would go with XP though as it has better performance so you won't need to buuy as much hardware.
R.B.Bailey - 17 May 2008 04:04 GMT Vista's crap...the SP1 compounds the problem. Cherish XP, and stick with it as long as possible. I don't see what was wrong with XP to begin with...why did they have to come up with Vista anyway?
 Signature R.B.
> All my programs are starting to screw up (PC with Win 98, OE6, IE6). I have > little confidence in my ability to trouble shoot (my PhD is not in [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > minimal configuration, for internet, and no network. My other computer is > the workhorse.) tom - 17 May 2008 04:17 GMT > Vista's crap...the SP1 compounds the problem. Cherish XP, and stick with it > as long as possible. I don't see what was wrong with XP to begin with...why > did they have to come up with Vista anyway? I 3rd the Motion
tom - 17 May 2008 04:21 GMT >> Vista's crap...the SP1 compounds the problem. Cherish XP, and stick >> with it as long as possible. I don't see what was wrong with XP to >> begin with...why did they have to come up with Vista anyway? > I 3rd the Motion I am going to Change my Hard Drive and See if My Backups work to Get Back to XP. Since My BACKUP MY PC doesnot work with VISTA.
Adam Albright - 17 May 2008 04:28 GMT >Vista's crap...the SP1 compounds the problem. Cherish XP, and stick with it >as long as possible. I don't see what was wrong with XP to begin with...why >did they have to come up with Vista anyway? Windows is Microsoft's cash cow. They HAVE to release a new version every so often to keep the cash coming in. Of course all software companies do the same thing. Microsoft sadly sometimes takes a step backwards. Vista is an example where it is worse than the version (XP) is was designed to replace. One reason the Boys of Redmond and rushing Windows 7 along. They know it lacks polish and causes a lot of grief for many users, only fanboy morons don't know any better.
tom - 17 May 2008 04:39 GMT >> Vista's crap...the SP1 compounds the problem. Cherish XP, and stick with it >> as long as possible. I don't see what was wrong with XP to begin with...why [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > Windows 7 along. They know it lacks polish and causes a lot of grief > for many users, only fanboy morons don't know any better. Is Microsoft Going to Give Refunds ? I say Double my money Back.
GorkusPuss - 17 May 2008 05:57 GMT "...money is the gift no one returns." - Quote, I forgot who.
- GorkusPuss
>>> Vista's crap...the SP1 compounds the problem. Cherish XP, and stick >>> with it as long as possible. I don't see what was wrong with XP to [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> > Is Microsoft Going to Give Refunds ? I say Double my money Back. Kevin Young - 17 May 2008 06:39 GMT >> All my programs are starting to screw up (PC with Win 98, OE6, IE6). I >> have [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >> is >> the workhorse.) Alan, this isn't a slight against either XP or Vista but your needs for this machine sound like a perfect candidate for a PC running Ubuntu Linux. If you are unfamiliar with Ubuntu I would encourage you to get a hold of a Ubuntu Live CD and you can then try it out on your existing hardware before deciding if it will meet your needs. Ubuntu comes with Firefox and Thunderbird and for simply Internet browsing, email and assorted tasks, it should more than meet your needs on a fairly low end basic pc. Since you are not one to trouble shoot I would recommend a Dell or something with Ubuntu pre-installed. The advantages to Ubuntu in your situation are lower hardware requirements and therefore lower cost, better performance and better security. Since you already have a more powerful XP machine, you can continue to run your existing Windows software on it and Ubuntu will give you exposure to another operating system and the available and included software should meet more than all your needs.
I would not recommend Vista unless you plan to purchase a machine with high end specs. It will set you back more money and it doesn't sound like you need it based on your requirements unless you were going to swap your XP machine as a replacement for your WIN 98 machine and look for a higher end machine as your new workhorse.
XP will perform admirably on mid range hardware but is not as secure as Ubuntu and requires a security suite subscription and more on-going maintenance than a Ubuntu machine. With Ubuntu, automatic updates will keep your operating system and all your programs updated automatically and there is not a need to run disk defrag like in Windows. If you have no interest in learning another operating system your best bet would be to stick to a machine with XP. If you are familiar with XP though you can learn the basics of Ubuntu with ease and having the ability to try a different operating system and some new programs can be a great experience if you are up to it.
I use XP, Vista and Ubuntu on pretty well a daily basis and they all have advantages and disadvantages but for your minimal needs I would choose Ubuntu since you already have an XP machine. Because your preference is not to trouble shoot, I would not recommend it though unless you go with a machine where it comes preinstalled so everything should be working out of the box.
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