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Windows Forum / Windows XP / Basics / August 2006

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Backing up the computer

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P D Sterling - 04 Aug 2006 05:25 GMT
Although I am old enough to know better, I suffered two disk crashes,
one after another. So my newyear-1/2 resolution was to back up regularly
as I am supposed to.

When I started trolling through help, all it led me to is setting
restore points, which sounds okay, unless the drive on which the crash
occurs is the one crashing.

Can someone older and wiser than I give some advice. Any help will be
gratefully appreciated.
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Regards,

P D Sterling
Dallas TX

Shenan Stanley - 04 Aug 2006 07:03 GMT
> Although I am old enough to know better, I suffered two disk
> crashes, one after another. So my newyear-1/2 resolution was to
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> Can someone older and wiser than I give some advice. Any help will
> be gratefully appreciated.

No one knows if they are older or wiser than you..
=)

The system restore feature is a useful - first appearing in Windows
ME and then sticking around for Windows XP.  It is only a useful
feature if you keep it maintained and use it to your advantage.
Remember that the system restore pretty much tells you in the name
what it protects which is 'system' files.  Your documents, your
pictures, your stuff is NOT system files - so you should also look
into some backup solution.

Whenever you think about it (after doing a once-over on your machine
once a month or so would be optimal) - clear out your System Restore
and create a manual restoration point.

'Why?'

Too many times have I seen the system restore files go corrupt or get
a virus in them, meaning you could not or did not want to restore from
them.  By clearing it out periodically you help prevent any corruption
from happening and you make sure you have at least one good "snapshot".
(*This, of course, will erase any previous restore point you have.*)

- Turn off System Restore.
  http://support.microsoft.com/kb/310405
- Reboot the Computer.
- Review the first bullet to turn on System Restore
- Make a Manual Restoration Point.
  http://snipurl.com/68nx

That covers your system files, but doesn't do anything for the files
that you are REALLY worried about - yours!  For that you need to look
into backups.  You can either manually copy your important files, folders,
documents, spreadsheets, emails, contacts, pictures, drawings and so on
to an external location (CD/DVD - any disk of some sort, etc) or you can
use the backup tool that comes with Windows XP:

How To Use Backup to Back Up Files and Folders on Your Computer
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/308422

Yes - you still need some sort of external media to store the results
on, but you could schedule the backup to occur when you are not around,
then burn the resultant data onto CD or DVD or something when you are
(while you do other things!)

Another option that came to my attention as of late:

Cobian Backup
http://www.educ.umu.se/~cobian/cobianbackup.htm

A lot of people have wondered about how to completely backup their system
so that they would not have to go through the trouble of a reinstall..
I'm going to voice my opinion here and say that it would be worthless to
do for MOST people.  Unless you plan on periodically updating the image
backup of your system (remaking it) - then by the time you use it
(something goes wrong) - it will be so outdated as to be more trouble than
performing a full install of the operating system and all applications.

Having said my part against it, you can clone/backup your hard drive
completely using many methods - by far the simplest are using disk cloning
applications:

Symantec/Norton Ghost
http://www.symantec.com/sabu/ghost/

Acronis True Image
http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing/products/trueimage

BootItT NG
http://terabyteunlimited.com/bootitng.html

Signature

Shenan Stanley
    MS-MVP
--
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

P D Sterling - 05 Aug 2006 05:45 GMT
thanks for lining out these options. one way I have limited my exposure
is, that I have one hard drive for data only, and one for programs.
however, there are a lot of programs that keep data in their own
program's folder, and its a lot of rigmarole to route it to the f:\
drive. really, all that can be done by re-install is windows and office,
and there are a lot of little downloaded programs which I haven't been
able to find again. but I'll persevere, and thanks for posting!

Regards,

P D Sterling
Dallas TX

>> Although I am old enough to know better, I suffered two disk
>> crashes, one after another. So my newyear-1/2 resolution was to
[quoted text clipped - 77 lines]
>  BootItT NG
>  http://terabyteunlimited.com/bootitng.html
Ken Blake, MVP - 04 Aug 2006 16:43 GMT
> Although I am old enough to know better, I suffered two disk crashes,
> one after another. So my newyear-1/2 resolution was to back up
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> restore points, which sounds okay, unless the drive on which the crash
> occurs is the one crashing.

System Restore is a very useful feature, but it's not a substitute for
backup. Besides the excellent point you mention, note that all it backs up
is the system, not your data files.

> Can someone older and wiser than I give some advice. Any help will be
> gratefully appreciated.

Here's my standard blurb on backup:

Almost everyone should be backing up regularly. It is always possible that a
hard drive crash, user error, nearby lightning strike, virus attack, even
theft of the computer, can cause the loss of everything on your drive. As
has often been said, it's not a matter of whether you will have such a
problem, but when.

Essentially you should back up what you can't afford to lose--what you can't
readily recreate. What that is depends on how you use your computer and what
you use it for.

It takes time and effort to backup, but it also takes time and effort to
recreate lost data. If you back up daily, you should never have to recreate
more than one day's worth of last data. If weekly, there's potentially a lot
more to recreate. You should assess how much pain and trouble you would have
if you lost x days of data, and then choose a backup frequency that doesn't
involve more pain and trouble than that you would have if you had to
recreate what was lost.

Some things (photographs, for instance) can never be recreated, and more
frequent backup may be wanted for them.

At one extreme is the professional user who would likely go out of business
if his data was lost. He probably needs to back up at least daily. At the
other extreme is the kid who doesn't use his computer except to play games.
He probably needs no backup at all, since worst case he can easily reinstall
his games.

Most of us fall somewhere between those extremes, but nobody can tell you
where you fall; you need to determine that for yourself.

Should you back up Windows? Should you back up your applications? Most
people will tell you no, since you can always reinstall these easily from
the original media. But I don't think the answer is so clear-cut. Many
people have substantial time and effort invested in customizing Windows and
configuring their apps to work the way they want to. Putting all of that
back the way it was can be a difficult, time-consuming effort. Whether you
should backup up Windows and apps depends, once again, on you.

How to backup? What software to use? There are many choices, including the
Windows-supplied backup program. Which choice is best for you depends at
least in part on the answers to some of the questions above.

Finally what backup media should you choose, and how should it be stored?
There are many choices, including CDs, tape, zip drives, and second hard
drives.

I don't recommend backup to a second non-removable hard drive because it
leaves you susceptible to simultaneous loss of the original and backup to
many of the most common dangers: severe power glitches, nearby lightning
strikes, virus attacks, even theft of the computer.

In my view, secure backup needs to be on removable media, and not kept in
the computer. For really secure backup (needed, for example, if the life of
your business depends on your data) you should have multiple generations of
backup, and at least one of those generations should be stored off-site.

My computer isn't used for business, but my personal backup scheme uses two
identical removable hard drives,I alternate between the two, and use Acronis
True Image to make a complete copy of the primary drive.

Signature

Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
Please reply to the newsgroup

cheyenne - 04 Aug 2006 19:46 GMT
"Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote in message

> System Restore is a very useful feature, but > it's not a substitute for
> backup. Besides the excellent point you  >mention, note that all it backs
> up is the system, not your data files.

> Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User

Therein, lies the problem!!  Neither System Restore nor ntBackup makes a
full (read complete) backup.  What a lot of users (maybe most)  require is a
simplistic system whereby the user can select one button that says 'backup'
and another that says 'restore'.  How difficult can that be, Microsoft?
Ken Blake, MVP - 04 Aug 2006 20:26 GMT
> "Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote in message
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Therein, lies the problem!!

Not at all. System Restore is not meant to be a complete backup solution.
It's meant to be a quick and easy way to restore the system back to state it
was in a while back. It's an easy way to recover from certain kinds of
problems and that's all. It's a valuable tool, but like every other tool, a
limited one. Complaining that System Restore doesn't backup everything is
like complaining that although Microsoft Word lets you back up a document,
it doesn't backup everything.  Or that although a hammer works well with
nails, it's useless for screws.

> Neither System Restore nor ntBackup
> makes a full (read complete) backup.  What a lot of users (maybe
> most)  require is a simplistic system whereby the user can select one
> button that says 'backup' and another that says 'restore'.

Here, I basically agree with you, but there are lots of third-party tools on
the market that work very well to do things like this. However, Microsoft
obviously needs to be very careful about building too many non-operating
system functions into the operating system. If  Windows provided full-scale
excellent tools to do everything that the third-party tools did, they would
quickly find themselves in trouble with the Justice Department, and we would
see all kinds of cries of their being a monopoly.

> How
> difficult can that be, Microsoft?

It has nothing to do with its being difficult. And if you think you're
addressing Microsoft here, you're not. This is a peer support newsgroup. We
are all just Windows XP users here, helping each other if and when we can.
We are not Microsoft employees (not even those of us with "Microsoft MVP"
behind our names; that's an honorary title for having provided consistently
helpful advice) except for an occasional employee who posts here
unofficially on his own time.

If you'd like to make suggestions to Microsoft, please contact them
directly.

Signature

Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
Please reply to the newsgroup

cheyenne - 04 Aug 2006 21:46 GMT
Complaining?  Please reread my post.  I merely stated what I thought System
Restore and ntBackup should be like.  While each serves a singular purpose,
I think users would be better served with a multi-purpose utility that
accomplishes the collective intent of the two.
I am fully aware that this is a peer support newsgroup; I added the word
"Microsoft" solely to differentiate them from third party software
suppliers.

"Ken Blake, MVP" <kblake@this.is.an.invalid.domain> wrote...(text omitted
for the sake of brevity)
Ken Blake, MVP - 04 Aug 2006 22:09 GMT
> Complaining?  Please reread my post.  I merely stated what I thought
> System Restore and ntBackup should be like.

I've read your post. You stated "Therein, lies the problem!!  Neither System
Restore nor ntBackup makes a
full (read complete) backup.  What a lot of users (maybe most)  require
is..."

A statement that something is not the way you would like it to be will be
interpreted by anyone as a complaint.

> While each serves a
> singular purpose, I think users would be better served with a
> multi-purpose utility that accomplishes the collective intent of the
> two.

That's fine. You're entitled to that view.

> I am fully aware that this is a peer support newsgroup; I added the
> word "Microsoft" solely to differentiate them from third party
> software suppliers.

Glad to hear that you're aware of it, but when you use the name "Microsoft"
as a form of address, as in "How difficult can that be, Microsoft?" don't be
surprised when people assume that you think that's whom you're addressing.

Signature

Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
Please reply to the newsgroup

P D Sterling - 05 Aug 2006 05:47 GMT
thanks for all the tips; I guess my Y2K program should include some
software, since the world is more complex than it used to be! thanks again!

Regards,

P D Sterling
Dallas TX

>> Although I am old enough to know better, I suffered two disk crashes,
>> one after another. So my newyear-1/2 resolution was to back up
[quoted text clipped - 72 lines]
> identical removable hard drives,I alternate between the two, and use Acronis
> True Image to make a complete copy of the primary drive.
Harry Ohrn - 05 Aug 2006 06:41 GMT
Acronis True Image from www.acronis.com is an excellent resource for
creating backups.

Signature

Harry Ohrn MS-MVP [Shell\User]
www.webtree.ca/windowsxp

> thanks for all the tips; I guess my Y2K program should include some
> software, since the world is more complex than it used to be! thanks
[quoted text clipped - 83 lines]
>> two identical removable hard drives,I alternate between the two, and use
>> Acronis True Image to make a complete copy of the primary drive.
Ken Blake, MVP - 05 Aug 2006 16:14 GMT
> thanks for all the tips; I guess my Y2K program should include some
> software, since the world is more complex than it used to be! thanks
> again!

You're welcome. Glad to help.

Signature

Ken Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User
Please reply to the newsgroup

>>> Although I am old enough to know better, I suffered two disk
>>> crashes, one after another. So my newyear-1/2 resolution was to
[quoted text clipped - 72 lines]
>> two, and use Acronis True Image to make a complete copy of the
>> primary drive.
 
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