Windows Forum / Windows XP / Basics / July 2007
win xp fax with dsl?
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rb - 28 Jul 2007 05:50 GMT Can the WinXP fax feature be used with DSL?
Don Schmidt - 28 Jul 2007 06:49 GMT I think there are Internet Services that will convert your FAX mail into a FAX and send it via Telephone Company dial tone service.
I use Windows XP here and the way I handle my FAX application is I have a dial tone modem on my computer and a program called Mighty FAX.
You can have DSL, FAX and phone dial tone service on the same. It takes an auto switch to switch the line to FAX when a FAX comes in and switches to dial tone when a phone call comes in.
The auto switch I use is a CommShare which now is offered under the name CommSwitch
http://www.commandcommunications.com/index.php
The system has one minor drawback, for callers.
When a call comes in, the "switch" answers, internally and listens for a FAX tone. If no tone it switches to the phone and the phone rings. If no one answers the phone it can switch to an answering machine. So if you get a long distance call, remember the switch answers the call, internally and if no one answers the call the caller will be charged with a LD call.
 Signature Don Vancouver, USA
> Can the WinXP fax feature be used with DSL? Vanguard - 28 Jul 2007 08:53 GMT > Can the WinXP fax feature be used with DSL? You will need a fax-capable analog modem. Either you'll need a modem card in a slot or the mobo has a rear connector for it.
Faxing is done over telephone lines, not the Internet. There are Internet-based services where you send them an e-mail containing your fax data but then they have to send it over a phone line. eFax is one of those. Actually, receiving faxes is free when using eFax. Someone uses their faxing over the phone to eFax's fax machine which ends up as an e-mail that gets sent to me. However, to send faxes through eFax costs money. The $10 modem card is cheaper for sending faxes.
Clara - 30 Jul 2007 17:17 GMT A reply stated that receiving faxes from efax is free. It is not free. For a price, they allow you to receive a certain number of faxes per month. Currently, it's 200 for 19.95 and .10 for each page after that. Sending is also not free. They charge .10 per page.
EggHeadCafe.com - .NET Developer Portal of Choice http://www.eggheadcafe.com
Don Schmidt - 30 Jul 2007 18:02 GMT For $20 you could get a FAX modem and do your own FAXing for toll charges at the most.
BTW, an excellent FAX program is Mighty FAX http://www.rkssoftware.com/mightyfax/overview.html
 Signature Don Vancouver, USA
>A reply stated that receiving faxes from efax is free. It is not free. For >a price, they allow you to receive a certain number of faxes per month. [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > EggHeadCafe.com - .NET Developer Portal of Choice > http://www.eggheadcafe.com Ken Blake, MVP - 30 Jul 2007 18:38 GMT > For $20 you could get a FAX modem and do your own FAXing for toll charges at > the most. For $20, you can also get a stand-alone fax modem on sale. That's what I did, and I think it's considerably more convenient than using the computer.
On a side note, I think fax is a technology that should have disappeared several years ago. E-mail with attachments is much more convenient. The only reason I have my $20 fax machine is that every once in a while, I need to deal with someone who requires that I use it. I even once had to get a document to someone at Microsoft, and that particular department required that I fax it, rather than E-mail it.
> BTW, an excellent FAX program is Mighty FAX > http://www.rkssoftware.com/mightyfax/overview.html [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > EggHeadCafe.com - .NET Developer Portal of Choice > > http://www.eggheadcafe.com
 Signature Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP Windows - Shell/User Please Reply to the Newsgroup
Don Schmidt - 30 Jul 2007 19:30 GMT I have more room on my desk. <G>
don
>> For $20 you could get a FAX modem and do your own FAXing for toll charges >> at [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >> > EggHeadCafe.com - .NET Developer Portal of Choice >> > http://www.eggheadcafe.com Ken Blake, MVP - 30 Jul 2007 19:47 GMT > I have more room on my desk. <G> I have *no* room on my desk. My fax machine is another room. ;-)
But you're right. One of the advantages of computer faxing is that you don't have to find room for another device.
Ken
> >> For $20 you could get a FAX modem and do your own FAXing for toll charges > >> at [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > >> > EggHeadCafe.com - .NET Developer Portal of Choice > >> > http://www.eggheadcafe.com
 Signature Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP Windows - Shell/User Please Reply to the Newsgroup
Vanguard - 31 Jul 2007 03:23 GMT > A reply stated that receiving faxes from efax is free. It is not free. > For a price, they allow you to receive a certain number of faxes per > month. Currently, it's 200 for 19.95 and .10 for each page after > that. Sending is also not free. They charge .10 per page. How hard it is to navigate the efax web pages? It's called their "eFaxFree" plan. If it is really that difficult for you to click a single link on their page to get the 2nd page describing their plans, here it is spoonfed to you:
http://www.efax.com/en/efax/twa/productOverview
With almost all free services, there are quota limits to prevent users from abusing the free service. Their free receive-only service limits you to 20 faxes per month. If you are looking at *free* services then you are looking for low- or personal-volume services. You really need to get more than 20 faxes in a month? There is only one remaining entity that is so far behind the times that the idiots think faxes are required as though the electronically transferred signature on a document actually is the user's real signature - and that's the government. The only time I have to do faxing is with the government. Anyone else can manage to deal with e-mails and then waste the paper if they feel compelled to have a hardcopy.
By receiving faxes via e-mail using their FREE service, I can read that fax from anywhere. I don't need to be at home. I use the webmail interface to my e-mail account while travelling, or at work for faxes sent to me at home (well, sent to my free efax account). I can manage old received faxes. I can even mail them back after modification but not through eFax but instead using my own fax modem.
I did not say sending was free and why I suggested the OP get a $10 fax modem card. I said RECEIVING faxes was free. I didn't mention the quota limit because the OP never indicated their need was for business use. You NEVER use free services for business; otherwise, you really aren't running a business but are instead operating a hobby.
John Barnett MVP - 28 Jul 2007 13:32 GMT No, you need an analogue fax modem that can dial out. Having said that, you can subscribe to companies such a Efax who will give you a fax number that you can add to your stationary. When people fax you Efax receive the fax and then convert it to an email to forward on to you. If you fax someone using the Efax service, providing the person you are faxing has a fax, the fax will be received as normal.
 Signature John Barnett MVP Associate Expert Windows - Shell/User
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> Can the WinXP fax feature be used with DSL? rb - 28 Jul 2007 13:43 GMT I still don't understand. My DSL hookup uses a phone line. FAX machines use a phone line. So, since my pc is hooked to my phone line, why wouldn't the internal WinXP fax feature work for FAX service--as long as my pc is online?
John Barnett MVP - 28 Jul 2007 15:19 GMT The fax has to dial a fax number, right? Your DSL is using the line, so how can it dial out when it is already connected to a server? The only possible way it can dial out is through a dial up fax modem which allows it to use the 'telephone' side of your DSL filter. Okay there is VOIP (voice over internet protocol) but a Fax, as far as I know, doesn't understand this protocol. I agree it would be a good idea, but until ISP's allow this to happen you are stuck with a standard dial up fax modem or, as I suggested in my original post, companies such as Efax.
 Signature John Barnett MVP Associate Expert Windows - Shell/User
Web: http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org Web: http://vistasupport.mvps.org
The information in this mail/post is supplied "as is". No warranty of any kind, either expressed or implied, is made in relation to the accuracy, reliability or content of this mail/post. The Author shall not be liable for any direct, indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the use of, or inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this mail/post..
>I still don't understand. My DSL hookup uses a phone line. FAX machines >use a phone line. So, since my pc is hooked to my phone line, why wouldn't >the internal WinXP fax feature work for FAX service--as long as my pc is >online? Ken Blake, MVP - 28 Jul 2007 20:55 GMT > I still don't understand. My DSL hookup uses a phone line. FAX machines > use a phone line. So, since my pc is hooked to my phone line, why wouldn't > the internal WinXP fax feature work for FAX service--as long as my pc is > online? Although DSL uses a phone line, it is one that is permanently connected to the internet, not to the dial-up network. You can't use it (at least not the DSL portion of the line, which is what is connected to your computer) to dial a telephone number. To make a fax call, you have to dial the telephone number of the recipient's fax machine, just as you have to dial your brother's telephone number to make a voice call to your brother.
 Signature Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP Windows - Shell/User Please Reply to the Newsgroup
Unknown - 28 Jul 2007 21:30 GMT They are the same lines. DSL uses the same lines as FAX and or normal phone calls. Inaccurate to say they do not connect to the dial-up network.
>> I still don't understand. My DSL hookup uses a phone line. FAX >> machines [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > machine, just as you have to dial your brother's telephone number to > make a voice call to your brother. Ken Blake, MVP - 28 Jul 2007 22:24 GMT > They are the same lines. DSL uses the same lines as FAX and or normal phone > calls. The same physical lines, but *only* if DSL service is installed on them. Without that qualification it's inaccurate to say that it's the same lines.
> Inaccurate to say they do not connect to the dial-up network. No, it's not. That's precisely why I qualified my statement to say "at least not the DSL portion of the line, which is what is connected to your computer."
> >> I still don't understand. My DSL hookup uses a phone line. FAX > >> machines [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > machine, just as you have to dial your brother's telephone number to > > make a voice call to your brother.
 Signature Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP Windows - Shell/User Please Reply to the Newsgroup
Unknown - 29 Jul 2007 15:50 GMT Completely immaterial whether or not DSL is installed. They are still the SAME physical lines. The lines simply are not called DSL if it is not installed.
>> They are the same lines. DSL uses the same lines as FAX and or normal >> phone [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] >> > machine, just as you have to dial your brother's telephone number to >> > make a voice call to your brother. Vanguard - 28 Jul 2007 21:45 GMT > I still don't understand. My DSL hookup uses a phone line. FAX > machines use a phone line. So, since my pc is hooked to my phone > line, why wouldn't the internal WinXP fax feature work for FAX > service--as long as my pc is online? DSL uses one band (frequency range) on your phone line. Your voice phone service uses a much lower band. That way, multiple bands can coexist over the same twisted pair and be used independently of each other. Never used DSL but, as I've read, the DSL installer needs to install a splitter. The old phone line goes to the phones and the split line goes to the DSL modem. Alternatively for self-installations, you are supposed to get filters that you add at every phone to keep it from interferring with the DSL function. I don't know your physical DSL setup.
Faxing uses phone lines (the voice band). You will need a fax-capable modem to do outbound faxing. Inbound faxing can be done using eFax's free fax-to-email service or you will need to leave the fax software running constantly on your host to receive inbound calls or manually run it when you are expecting a fax. When you are sending (or receiving) faxes using your [voice] phone line then you can't use your phones for regular conversations.
Regardless of how you argue, you will need to get a fax-capable modem. Or you will have to pay someone for their online fax service (although you can receive for free, sending will cost you money). There is TPC.int which is a group of users running fax servers to where you can send e-mails to have them use their voice phone line to send out your fax, but TPC.int is a volunteer group, they may not have a toll-free number or a local number in your area to avoid long-distance charges, and they are not reliable. Plus, I think, they are only usable for sending faxes so you still need a solution for getting them.
If you can't afford the one-time cost of $10 for a fax modem, you cannot afford the computer you are using.
rb - 28 Jul 2007 22:16 GMT }}} If you can't afford the one-time cost of $10 for a fax modem, you cannot afford the computer you are using. {{{
Assume I've got the fax modem you mention. Does it need a separate phone line?
}}} Although DSL uses a phone line, it is one that is permanently connected to the internet, not to the dial-up network. You can't use it (at least not the DSL portion of the line, which is what is connected to your computer) to dial a telephone number. {{{
I think this answers the phone line question and says the fax modem needs to connect to a non-DSL line.
Vanguard - 28 Jul 2007 22:37 GMT > }}} If you can't afford the one-time cost of $10 for a fax modem, you > cannot > afford the computer you are using. {{{ > > Assume I've got the fax modem you mention. Does it need a separate > phone line? Nope. Just use the same phone line that goes to your telephone. If the nearest wall jack only has one socket that goes to your telephone, get a splitter to connect your telephone and the TEL jack on your modem to the same wall jack.
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2459848&cp=2032052.2032075 .2032077.2032088&parentPage=family Plug into the telephone near the computer and use a short cord from it to the TEL jack of the modem. Or plug it into the wall jack and run separate long cords to your telephone and the TEL jack of your modem.
> }}} Although DSL uses a phone line, it is one that is permanently > connected to the internet, not to the dial-up network. You can't use [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I think this answers the phone line question and says the fax modem > needs to connect to a non-DSL line. The analog fax modem acts just like a telephone, so you can plug it into the same jacks into which you plug your telephone. The filter/splitter that separates the voice and DSL bands is either at the entry point to your house or a separate filter is installed at each endpoint device (telephone, fax machine, fax modem, burglar alarm, whatever).
You don't need a 2nd telephone line to use fax modems/machines on the same twisted pair as your DSL service. However, if you want to do voice communications over the phone line while you are sending or you want to leave the fax in constant receive mode to pickup any incoming fax calls, yes, then you need a 2nd voice line (which could be the POTS service or could even be VoIP over your DSL broadband connection provided you have decent upload speed).
Phil Weldon - 29 Jul 2007 01:12 GMT 'rb' wrote, in part:
| I think this answers the phone line question and says the fax modem needs to | connect to a non-DSL line. No, the fax/modem does NOT have to connect to a non DSL line. There must however, be a low pass filter between the DSL service and any phone, fax, or fax/modem. Most existing structures to which DSL service is added use a low pass filter at each phone jack EXCEPT for the jack to which the DSL modem connects. SOME DSL installations use a low pass filter at the telephone system point-of-presence (the location in the structure where the external telephone network hands the signal over to the internal wiring) and run a new telephone twisted pair cable to a jack for the exclusive use of the DSL modem. This after construction additional wiring is more expensive and less flexible, and so is rarely used. A new structure wired for DSL from the start could have multiple twisted pairs connected to each phone jack and one of those twisted pairs would be for DSL only. The additional wiring is more expensive and less flexible, and so is rarely used.
Example:
You have DSL service.
It is not a 'Bare DSL' service (the line has a telephone number associated, and is connected to the phone network.)
You have one phone jack in the wall at your computer/DSL modem location.
You add a fax/modem to your computer.
You plug a one into two splitter in the wall jack.
You plug a low pass filter (Z-Blocker/DSL Filter) into one of the splitter outputs, then connect from the output of the low pass filter to the fax/modem IN jack. The low pass filter blocks the DSL signal to eliminate interference with the operation of a phone or fax.
You connect the other splitter output into the DSL modem.
Your computer continues to connect to your ISP via DSL.
The fax/modem will allow the computer to act as a fax AND, if you wish, allow dial-up ISP connectivity (if, say, DSL connectivity is lost.)
If you already have a phone at the computer/DSL modem location, then you might want to use either a second splitter (only one low pass filter is needed) or connect the phone to the fax/modem OUT jack. Be aware that you can not use any phone on the same line (any phone with the same telephone number) while the fax/modem is in use, and that you should set up the fax modem options that handle things like call waiting.
Phil Weldon
| }}} If you can't afford the one-time cost of $10 for a fax modem, you | cannot [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] | I think this answers the phone line question and says the fax modem needs to | connect to a non-DSL line. Ken Blake, MVP - 29 Jul 2007 02:12 GMT > }}} If you can't afford the one-time cost of $10 for a fax modem, you > cannot > afford the computer you are using. {{{ I agree.
> Assume I've got the fax modem you mention. Does it need a separate phone > line? No. See below.
> }}} Although DSL uses a phone line, it is one that is permanently > connected to the internet, not to the dial-up network. You can't use [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I think this answers the phone line question and says the fax modem needs to > connect to a non-DSL line. No, not true. What most of call a DSL "line" is not really a separate line at all. It's a service applied to a regular telephone line. That DSL "line" can be (and usually is) split into its two components--the DSL portion which connects to the internet--and the voice-grade portion which connects to regular voice telephones, fax machines, modems (not *DSL* modems, but regular fax or voice-grade modems). That splitting is accomplished by using a special filter on the voice-grade portion of the line.
When I said the DSL line can not send faxes, I tried to make it clear that I was talking about the DSL portion of the line--the part connected to the internet--not the filtered voice portion that *can* connect to a fax modem (if you have one).
 Signature Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP Windows - Shell/User Please Reply to the Newsgroup
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