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Windows Forum / Windows XP / Basics / July 2007Recovery from unauthorized Vista upgrade?
I am trying to help one of my wife's foreign students, who borrowed a Vista Home Premium CD from a friend to upgrade her HP notebook that came with XP Media Center Edition. AFAICT, the upgrade was successful, but of course she cannot use the machine because there is no valid license key. She does not have the money to purchase a legitimate Vista key. Is a Repair Install using a retail XP Media Center Edition CD and her original key likely to be successful (including leaving alone any machine-specific features that came with it)? I assume that restoring from an HP-supplied Windows CD will restore the system to its fresh-from-the-factory state and wipe out all her personal files, including her Master's thesis. Or what about booting to Safe Mode with Networking, retrieving all her personal files, and then doing the restore to the fresh-from-the-factory state? Perce > I am trying to help one of my wife's foreign students, who borrowed a > Vista Home Premium CD from a friend to upgrade her HP notebook that came [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > personal files, and then doing the restore to the fresh-from-the-factory > state? A. Back up her Master's Thesis and any other important data. You can do this even if you can't get into Windows. Here's how: 1. Pull the drive and slave it in a computer running a working install of Vista or possibly XP. Depending on the target drive's characteristics, you may need a drive adapter; i.e., laptop-to-IDE or a SATA controller card, etc. A usb/firewire external drive enclosure works very well, too. Use the working Windows Explorer to copy the data to the rescue system's hard drive and then burn the data to cd or dvd. 2. If the host machine will not boot into the OS with the slaved drive, boot the target computer with either a Bart's PE or a Linux live cd such as Knoppix and retrieve the data that way. Since Vista and all its difficult permissions is involved, I would use Knoppix. Here is general information on doing this: You will need a computer with two cd drives, one of which is a cd/dvd-rw OR a usb thumb drive with enough capacity to hold your data OR an external usb/firewire hard drive formatted FAT32 (not NTFS). To get Knoppix, you need a computer with a fast Internet connection and third-party burning software. Download the Knoppix .iso and create your bootable cd. Then boot with it and it will be able to see the Windows files. If you are using the usb thumb drive or the external hard drive, right-click on its icon (on the Desktop) to get its properties and uncheck the box that says "Read Only". Then click on it to open it. Note that the default mouse action in the window manager used by Knoppix (KDE) is a single click to open instead of the traditional MS Windows' double-click. Otherwise, use the K3b burning program to burn the files to cd/dvd-r's. http://www.knoppix.net B. Once the data is safely retrieved, get the Restore Disks from HP (or have them ready). They will only cost around $20USD. It is unlikely that your XP MCE disk will work unless it is an HP disk. You will still need to get all the drivers and laptop-specific software from HP. If you don't have the ability to do the above - lack of equipment, lack of skill, etc. - take the machine to a professional computer repair shop. This will not be a BigComputerStore/GeekSquad type of place. They can back up the laptop's data and reinstall Windows properly. Malke  SignatureElephant Boy Computers www.elephantboycomputers.com "Don't Panic!" MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User 'Malke' wrote, in part: | If you don't have the ability to do the above - lack of equipment, lack | of skill, etc. - take the machine to a professional computer repair | shop. This will not be a BigComputerStore/GeekSquad type of place. _____ Come on, what's wrong with a BigComputerStore? That's where I buy all my hard drives B^) Or did, as all the BigComputerStores in Georgia have closed, and over half in the rest of the USA have closed. But on the other hand, I've never used a repair service other that notebook warranty repair. If you don't count the days of resident IBM engineers B^) Phil Weldon | > I am trying to help one of my wife's foreign students, who borrowed a | > Vista Home Premium CD from a friend to upgrade her HP notebook that came [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] | | Malke > 'Malke' wrote, in part: > | If you don't have the ability to do the above - lack of equipment, lack [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > hand, I've never used a repair service other that notebook warranty repair. > If you don't count the days of resident IBM engineers B^) Buying a hard drive is far different than getting tech support. I have seen the "tech support" provided by CompUSA and the GeekSquad first-hand. I stand by what I wrote. Naturally you can get terrible tech support at small places too but in most cases your chances of getting decent work done are much higher if you don't go to McComputerFixit. It's best to get recommendations from friends and colleagues. Malke SignatureElephant Boy Computers www.elephantboycomputers.com "Don't Panic!" MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User | Buying a hard drive is far different than getting tech support. I have | seen the "tech support" provided by CompUSA and the GeekSquad | first-hand. I stand by what I wrote. Naturally you can get terrible tech | support at small places too but in most cases your chances of getting | decent work done are much higher if you don't go to McComputerFixit. | It's best to get recommendations from friends and colleagues. _____ It is good you stand by what you wrote, but I think you should go even further. I certainly understand purchasing a commodity computer component not the same as repair service. But I neither ask for nor listen to advice from BigComputerStore outlets; CompUSA has tanked because component and system profit margins are so thin and they never realized (unlike automobile dealers) that reliable repair does have a decent profit margin. I guess the sarcasm in my earlier post didn't make it through the medium. I thought "But on the other hand, I've never used a repair service other than notebook warranty repair." was a clue. I don't have a lot of confidence in ANY repair shop. I'd recommend instead that a purchaser evaluate the cost of a manufacturer extended warranty, the real cost of an inoperative or barely operative computer, and the time to obsolescence. If computer system functions add value, then I LIKE the idea of warranty repair work that mainly depends on a protocol book, a flow chart, and swapping components. On the other hand, if a user experiments with a lot of different soft configuration and/or pushes the hardware (describes me and my personal computers) then extended warranties may not be appropriate; THAT user should accept the responsibility of learning how to diagnose problems OR locate a reliable repair service BEFORE purchase. Total Cost of Ownership includes soft and hard repair no matter what use is made of a computer system. Phil Weldon | > 'Malke' wrote, in part: | > | If you don't have the ability to do the above - lack of equipment, lack [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] | | Malke > 'Malke' wrote, in part: > | If you don't have the ability to do the above - lack of equipment, lack [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > hand, I've never used a repair service other that notebook warranty repair. > If you don't count the days of resident IBM engineers B^) First of all, note that Malke was talking about support issues, not buying hard drives. But even for buying hard drives (or *any* hardware), unless there's an extra special sale going on, there are usually *much* better prices available on the web. I once needed a USB cable, and didn't want to wait for shipping time, so I went to Best Buy to see what they had. They had what I needed, but the extraordinarily high price of $25-30. I went home, searched the web, and found and ordered one for $.01 (that's not a typo--one penny). Yes, there was a $5 shipping charge, but the total was still much lower than Best Buy's price. Regarding support and service issues, I completely agree with Malke. These stores are normally the *worst* possible place to go. Most of these places choose the people they hire based on their willingness to accept something close to minimum wage, not based on their skills. If these people knew anything, almost certainly they could get a better job. I wouldn't trust any of them with any computer I owned. SignatureKen Blake, Microsoft MVP Windows - Shell/User Please Reply to the Newsgroup 'Ken Blake' wrote: | First of all, note that Malke was talking about support issues, not | buying hard drives. But even for buying hard drives (or *any* [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] | these people knew anything, almost certainly they could get a better | job. I wouldn't trust any of them with any computer I owned. _____ I understand Malke's point. I don't disagree with Malke's point. In fact, I would expand on Malke's recommendation. I did not make my point clearly (see my reply under Malke's post.) Only some commodity component prices are better on the web - hard drives in particular were used as 'loss leaders' at CompUSA, it doesn't make sense for an e-store to do the same. Considering carefully, I would have to say ONLY hard drives were 'loss leaders' at CompUSA. Yes, a $30 USB cable was what you generally found at a CompUSA, and I bet it was a Belkin cable B^) Bulk purchase or remaindered items by an e-store and subsequent sale for a penny does make sense. But is it a good idea to purchase a remaindered cable (not that I consider Belkin a particularly good brand)? Depends - intermittent cable problems can drastically increase the real cost of a cheap cable. You wrote: | These stores are normally the *worst* possible place to go. Most of | these places choose the people they hire based on their willingness to | accept something close to minimum wage, not based on their skills. If | these people knew anything, almost certainly they could get a better | job. I wouldn't trust any of them with any computer I owned. Which is why I like repair procedures that don't depend on the skill or dedication of the technician. When hardware is so cheap, then the best repair procedure is the one that uses the least human intervention (warranty repair, for example.) Data is very expensive, so data recovery has a different cost paradigm. Computer security breaches can be very expensive, so computer security also has a different cost paradigm. Phil Weldon | > 'Malke' wrote, in part: | > | If you don't have the ability to do the above - lack of equipment, lack [quoted text clipped - 26 lines] | these people knew anything, almost certainly they could get a better | job. I wouldn't trust any of them with any computer I owned. > 'Ken Blake' wrote: > | First of all, note that Malke was talking about support issues, not [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > In fact, I would expand on Malke's recommendation. > I did not make my point clearly (see my reply under Malke's post.) Yes, I missed your sarcasm. Sorry. > Only some commodity component prices are better on the web - hard drives in > particular were used as 'loss leaders' at CompUSA, it doesn't make sense for [quoted text clipped - 58 lines] > | these people knew anything, almost certainly they could get a better > | job. I wouldn't trust any of them with any computer I owned. SignatureKen Blake, Microsoft MVP Windows - Shell/User Please Reply to the Newsgroup What all three of you fail to mention is costs. A good computer repair shop will charge $68 simply to give an estimate to repair. And then, $90 per hour for repair. Can you imagine $90 per hour to re-install Windows (if necessary). The owner of the computer needs to gamble somewhat. If he takes it to a store, perhaps he can get it fixed for $30. Who knows? But to a shop----minimum of $68 and still not fixed (Estimate only). Of course if your pockets or purses are overflowing with dollar bills-------who cares? > 'Ken Blake' wrote: > | First of all, note that Malke was talking about support issues, not [quoted text clipped - 93 lines] > | these people knew anything, almost certainly they could get a better > | job. I wouldn't trust any of them with any computer I owned. | What all three of you fail to mention is costs. A good computer repair shop | will charge $68 simply to give an estimate to repair. And then, $90 per [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] | shop----minimum of $68 and still not fixed (Estimate only). Of course if | your pockets or purses are overflowing with dollar bills-------who cares? _____ It is ALL about costs. That's the whole point. The dollar amount for 'repair' you estimate is only a fraction of the real cost of repair. Which is why your conclusion is skewed. Not to mention that in the context of this discussion your 'reinstall Windows' argument is a straw man. A more apt example would be service that would determine IF a re-install is NECESSARY and IF a re-install would RESOLVE the problem. Phil Weldon | What all three of you fail to mention is costs. A good computer repair shop | will charge $68 simply to give an estimate to repair. And then, $90 per [quoted text clipped - 100 lines] | > | these people knew anything, almost certainly they could get a better | > | job. I wouldn't trust any of them with any computer I owned. Either you didn't read my post or you completely misunderstood it. Didn't you read 'if necessary'? > | What all three of you fail to mention is costs. A good computer repair > shop [quoted text clipped - 148 lines] > | > | these people knew anything, almost certainly they could get a better > | > | job. I wouldn't trust any of them with any computer I owned. | Either you didn't read my post or you completely misunderstood it. Didn't | you read 'if necessary'? _____ 'If necessary' - that's my point, that, and 'if it will resolve the problem'. It's the 'if necessary' and 'if it will resolve the problem' that requires knowledge and skill. Reinstalling Windows requires neither. Phil Weldon | Either you didn't read my post or you completely misunderstood it. Didn't | you read 'if necessary'? Regardless: If a computer repair shop has to re-install the OS the owner is billed $90 per hour. > | Either you didn't read my post or you completely misunderstood it. > Didn't [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Didn't > | you read 'if necessary'? >I am trying to help one of my wife's foreign students, who borrowed a Vista >Home Premium CD from a friend to upgrade her HP notebook that came with XP [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Perce Can't say I have any sympathy here at all. No backups of this important thesis? Borrowed a Vista CD? When are people going to learn? >> I am trying to help one of my wife's foreign students, who borrowed a Vista >> Home Premium CD from a friend to upgrade her HP notebook that came with XP [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >> machine because there is no valid license key. She does not have the money >> to purchase a legitimate Vista key. <snip> > Can't say I have any sympathy here at all. No backups of this important > thesis? Borrowed a Vista CD? When are people going to learn? The lack of a current backup is stupidity. As for the other issue... not all cultures have the same concept of individual exclusive ownership: things are meant to be shared. Perce "> The lack of a current backup is stupidity. As for the other issue... not > all cultures have the same concept of individual exclusive ownership: > things are meant to be shared. > > Perce The sharing concept is one that I endorse - for an example (perhaps a silly one) I've never understood why each house in a small street has to have a lawnmower, when one bought collectively and shared would be just as good. But then, a lawnmower doesn't come with a EULA. I'm not trying to be silly here, but to make a point. I'm not totally sure it's a culture explanation though. I guess that the vast majority of people think that they have bought the software itself, when in fact they have bought a license to use it as per the EULA (not that I can prove that statement!). Perhaps it's an education thing. If so, your friend has learnt the hard way. On 07/28/07 12:52 pm I wrote: > I am trying to help one of my wife's foreign students, who borrowed a > Vista Home Premium CD from a friend to upgrade her HP notebook that came [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > personal files, and then doing the restore to the fresh-from-the-factory > state? Even Safe Mode would not work ("activation period expired," or some such message), so I hooked up a USB hard disk and booted from a dfSEE CD (www.dfsee.com -- it's not as pretty as Partition Magic, but PM complained about "bad clusters" and quit), then cloned the C: drive to free space on the external drive. Then I connected the external drive to another machine and burned the contents of the Users folder to a couple of DVDs. The student had not made the Recovery Disks (CD or DVD) as recommended, so I assume she is going to buy a set from HP. Once she has the machine back in working order with XP, she can copy her stuff back from the DVDs. Perce |
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