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blue2lip - 26 Nov 2006 21:54 GMT

I just purchased this HP Pavilion laptop computer and as I am a professional
photographer, it is important that I can see extreme detail in the images I
work on. I just worked on 14 images in photoshop and sent them to my
assistant to get out to the lab. When she brought the images up on her
computer, she was able to see where I had darkened the black background to
cover the pants and parts of the white flesh showing on the customer I had
photographed. Even though I know exactly where the imperfections and
corrections are, when I bring these images up on this computer, I am not able
to see the detail she was seeing on her computer monitor. Is there any way
to adjust this monitor so that the details are exposed, and thus, corrections
can be made? If this is not possible, I need to find out what laptop
computer works for professional image manipulation through photoshop or other
image manipulation software.

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blue2lip

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Ted Zieglar - 26 Nov 2006 22:59 GMT

Professional photographers deserve a more sophisticated monitor than is
typically packaged with a computer. For demanding work, you really
should invest in a pro-quality monitor. You may also want to invest in
color-matching software, so what you print will exactly match what you see.

---
Ted Zieglar
"Backup is a computer user's best friend."

> I just purchased this HP Pavilion laptop computer and as I am a professional
> photographer, it is important that I can see extreme detail in the images I
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> computer works for professional image manipulation through photoshop or other
> image manipulation software.

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blue2lip - 27 Nov 2006 16:03 GMT

Ted,
The computer I purchased is a lap-top, so I didn't really have the option of
a different monitor. I do have a desk-top computer and should update my
monitor because it's about 5 years old, but I imagined that a upper end
lap-top would have a monitor that could be calibrated for the work I do. The
professional lab I use doesn't recommend any expensive calibration programs,
rather that you calibrate your monitor based upon an image with white to
black and color swatches as well as four different styles of images all on
one print. The instructions indicate that due to the fact that there are
several different printers being used based upon production at any given time
of year and types of work ordered that it would be impossible to calibrate a
monitor to one printer, not to mention that monitors and printers see color
completely differently. Therefore, the lab recommends that you follow the
steps to calibrate to the calibration image. I did as suggested, but found
the contrast to be extreme on this monitor. Perhaps I did not alter the
contrast enough. However, when I took the contrast down, I found the images
to be muddy and unpleasing. I'm hoping there's something I can do to correct
this problem. Otherwise, I need to know what lap-top computer is recommended
for professional photographers.

Signature

blue2lip

> Professional photographers deserve a more sophisticated monitor than is
> typically packaged with a computer. For demanding work, you really
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> > computer works for professional image manipulation through photoshop or other
> > image manipulation software.

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Pop` - 27 Nov 2006 01:34 GMT

> I just purchased this HP Pavilion laptop computer and as I am a
> professional photographer, it is important that I can see extreme
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> what laptop computer works for professional image manipulation
> through photoshop or other image manipulation software.

For that gross a mismatch, I doubt it's the quality of your monitor, but
it's possible. What resolution do you have the monitor set for? Minumum,
it should be 1280 x yyy or higher. 800 x yyy or lower will help to mask out
some of the details, which is not what you want.

I don't know Photoshop any longer (I currently am using PaintShop Pro 9
and/ore 10) but I hang out with a lot who do. I think there is a tool or
section where you can "set up" your monitor. It usually consists of
modifying colors and grays in panels until a center section exactly matches
the parts on each side. Visually it looks sort of like you're doping out a
moire pattern and exactly matching colors/patterns. It's easy to do. Not
as accurate as say a Pantel panel, but I think plenty for what your problem
is.

The newsgroup cnews.corel.com has a corel.PaintShopProX group there and
you'll find a lot of photoshoppers there too. There are some usenet PSP
groups too, but ... they're full of the usual shenanigans so culling out
real info can be more difficult. They can likely help you out with setting
up for things like that.
If you go there, share your operating system/version, cpu version/type,
photoshop version, amount of RAM, Video Ram if applicable, and your video
card model # at least; that will get you a much better targetted set of
responses.
To be brutally honest, your post as it is, is poor to terrible for
getting much useful help; way too little detail. The first thing that came
to my mind, for example, was whether you were using a clone tool, a copy
tool, a mask, how many overlays; all that sort of thing when you apparently
tried to replace certain pixels in a cleanup effort. Then, reading it
over again, I decided that you're in a more basic area and probably need
more basic assistance than that.

Assuming you were able to do this same work on a previous machine with
photoshop and had no problems (you included no info that way), then it
certainly should be able to be done on your HP with TrueColor and 24 or 32
bit video settings at 1280 or greater. In particular, for instance, if you
are set for 16 colors, you'll never see the kind of things your'e talking
about. BTW, I'm not saying things lke 800 x 600 because I don't know the
shape of your screen; 4:3 or 16:9 or whatever, so I leave it at 800 x yyy.

At this point I'd be careful of investing big bucks in a professional
monitor: There are too many other areas that can give the problems you talk
about, including your video card and/or Video RAM, etc etc etc.
It wouldn't hurt to try another borrowed/whatever monitor, but I suspect
that isn't your problem for what you've described.

HTH

Pop`

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blue2lip - 27 Nov 2006 06:41 GMT

O.K., Pop', my screen resolution is set at 1440 x 900 pixels and color
quality is set at 32 bit. I use Millers Professional Imaging lab for my
work. However, I am a bit new at all this digital stuff. I do have another
computer, a Compaq Presario desk top with a Mag Innovision monitor that are
both about four to five years old. (I can't remember) but it seems to do
o.k. I just set up that monitor to match the Millers color management guide.
Although they ask you to set up to daylight temperature, I did not have that
option on either monitor. The contrast on the HP Pavilion seems to be
extreme, however, and I had a very difficult time not having whites washed
completely out. I did make some changes, but I had my son's help, and as he
is not here at the moment, I can't remember where he went to get all the
adjustments. I've tried the monitor and color management, but nothing seems
to have the options I'm looking for. The problem I'm experiencing, I did
have one other time when I had a migrane and turned the monitor down so low
that I could not see the work I had done. Same as this time, I had a father
with a black shirt holding the baby. To fit the image to a 5 x 5, I added
more black to the top and blended the colors to even out the change. I know,
this is probably not the best way to do this, but, as I said, I'm a bit new
at all this digital stuff. This time, I did not turn the monitor down, I
simply could not see the problem at all. The last time, the problem showed
up on the final images. This time, my assistant caught it before it went to
print. Any help or suggestions would be great. I got this computer at
Costco, and I know I could return it easily (that's why I love shopping
there). But if there's a way to get it to work, I'd like to give it a try.

Thanks for your response and help.

Signature

blue2lip

> > I just purchased this HP Pavilion laptop computer and as I am a
> > professional photographer, it is important that I can see extreme
[quoted text clipped - 59 lines]
>
> Pop`

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Pop` - 27 Nov 2006 18:15 GMT

Inline:

> O.K., Pop', my screen resolution is set at 1440 x 900 pixels and color
> quality is set at 32 bit.

Perfect. Also, assuming you're North America, scan rate should be 70 Hz or
higher, whichever gives the cleanest looking no-flicker display. I work at
1024 x 768, 75 Hz most of the time and it suffices well; Gamma I think is
about 1.4 in my case; maybe 1.38. I keep digital exposure times at 1.1 and
occasionally up as high as 1.4.

I use Millers Professional Imaging lab for

> my work. However, I am a bit new at all this digital stuff. I do
> have another computer, a Compaq Presario desk top with a Mag
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> set up to daylight temperature, I did not have that option on either
> monitor.

Perhaps it's a setting on your video control panel for the video card?

The contrast on the HP Pavilion seems to be extreme,

> however, and I had a very difficult time not having whites washed
> completely out.

That's going to be your problem, I bet. From your description it sounds
like it's not a minor saturation issue but that your colors are blooming and
bleeding all over each other; you'd never see fine detail with that, I don't
think.

I think your issues are around either: The display monitor you have (which
I said previously wasn't the case, I know), or, more likely, the
brightness/contrast/saturation/gray levels settings. Yes, "gray" levels,
and I understand it's color prints your'e working with.

IMO, you should display a known-good previously edited image on the screen.
Set the monitor settings as best you can for the best display.
Next open your video card controls and further adjust things to your
liking.
Now:
You mentioned "Millers color management guide": I don't know what that
particular one is, but NOW try to set IT up. It's very important when
you're setting pure colors that there is no pattern of any kind visible in
the pure color, IF you have the option of doing so.
"Daylight Temperature" might have a different name in your
system/programs. What it's talking about is the color depth for various
times of the day; sunlight, shadow, flourescent, that sort of thing, if that
helps any.

Are you using sRGB? Perhaps you have the wrong color space chosen?

> ... To fit the image to a 5 x 5, I added more
> black to the top and blended the colors to even out the change.

I'm not sure what you mean there. Resizing an image should not in and of
itself require any color manipulations. I assume you used your image editor
for the resizing, right?
I

> know, this is probably not the best way to do this, but, as I said,
> I'm a bit new at all this digital stuff.

You've got lots of company, believe me! <g>

This time, I did not turn

> the monitor down, I simply could not see the problem at all. The
> last time, the problem showed up on the final images. This time, my
> assistant caught it before it went to print.

That's good at least. It sounds like you at least have a control point
where you can get things checked out until you get things right.

You might not expect this, but here's another thing that can greatly change
how your images show on screen: YOUR printer.
IFF you could install the same printer drivers as your assistant has,
then it's possible to come pretty close to being able to see the same things
onscreen. You do NOT have to have the printer; you simply need the printer
installed and chosen as the default printer while you are working on your
images. I've done that several times in order to "see" what my destinations
"see" and it served me well. Just don't forget to change that printer
before you print anything real or you might spit out a lot of sheets of
garbage<G>! I did that, too!

Usually print shops will have requirements for submissions such as file
size, print size, dpi or ppi to dp, eRGB, CMYK, and on and on, depending on
the printer. Are you able to meet those requirements with any reasonable
closeness?

Any help or suggestions

> would be great. I got this computer at Costco, and I know I could
> return it easily (that's why I love shopping there). But if there's
> a way to get it to work, I'd like to give it a try.

I'll offer you two things if you wish to pursue it:

-- Give me your exact computer model number and I'll see if I can check out
its abilities. A URL would be even better, but I can find that on my own.

-- Send me one good and one problem image, preferably a before/after, and
I'll take a look at them here and see if I have anything to suggest about
them. If you want to go this route, I'll give you a "real" email address to
use, and of course I'll need yours also in case you use throw-aways.

-- Have you pursued the link I gave you for photoshop talk?

Regards,

Pop`

> Thanks for your response and help.
>
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>>
>> Pop`

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blue2lip - 29 Nov 2006 04:13 GMT

Pop',

I do have a junk e-mail address I'll give to you. Since I don't know you, I
won't give you my family or business e-mail addresses. Your information has
been solid, so I feel that you know what you're talking about.

My computer box says it's an HP Pavilion, model #: dv9033cl, Product #:
(1P)RG341UA, Option #: (30P)ABA, RMN#: HSTNN-Q21C, There's another
unidentified number: RG341UA#ABA. I don't have any idea what a URL is or if
this package has one.

As far as sending you a couple of images, once you e-mail me, I'll send them
back to you. I'll also try to answer the rest of your questions at that
time. Since my time is limited, I've been trying to work on this between
work and family. The computer seems to work pretty good otherwise. My
e-mail address is: blue_2lip@yahoo.com (Seems to be a favorite pseudoname.
I don't know why.)

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blue2lip

> Inline:
>
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> >>
> >> Pop`

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Pop` - 29 Nov 2006 16:10 GMT

OK, you'll receive an e-mail from me shortly. It'll be from twayne AT
twaynesdomain DOT com in case you need to whitelist it ahead of time.

No worry, I wont' be asking for any personal information and don't need it.
All we're talking about is a couple of files.

Pop`

> Pop',
>
[quoted text clipped - 202 lines]
>>>>
>>>> Pop`

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