How to losslessly fade WMA files?

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Jack - 28 May 2007 17:18 GMT

There are several free programs that fade MP3 tracks in or out with no
effect on the original data, but I have only been able to find an (abrupt)
splitter for WMA files. Is there something about the block structure of WMA
that limits fade functionality?

I don't want to open WMA files as temporary WAVs in GoldWave (etc.) and
lose quality after fading them. Many people seem to think nothing is lost
during conversions but every re-compression takes a toll. I like to stay
true to the original, regardless of format.

I prefer WMA 128kbps over MP3 to save 33% storage space, since it sounds as
clean as MP3 192kbps in unbiased tests. I'm not looking to convert WMA to
MP3 since I would have ripped to MP3 192kbps+ in the first place. No need
to turn this into a WMA vs. MP3 thread. I'd actually use OGG if it was more
widely compatible but I'm not even sure you can fade OGG.

So far, the only method I've seen for fading WMA files is to open them in
Windows Movie Maker as pseudo movie clips, then do fixed-length short fades
using the storyboard. I need something much more customizable, and I'm not
even sure if that method is lossless.

Thanks for any info.

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theplectrum - 28 May 2007 20:24 GMT

> There are several free programs that fade MP3 tracks in or out with no
> effect on the original data, but I have only been able to find an (abrupt)
[quoted text clipped - 22 lines]
>
> Thanks for any info.

You don't have to, Goldwave can handle wma files and you can fade in / fade
out with it. Read the help file ......

Cheers,
Jerry

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Jack - 30 May 2007 03:53 GMT

>> So far, the only method I've seen for fading WMA files is to open
>> them in Windows Movie Maker as pseudo movie clips, then do
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> You don't have to, Goldwave can handle wma files and you can fade in /
> fade out with it. Read the help file ......

Actually, GoldWave just "flashes" MP3 or WMA files to memory as temporary
(uncompressed) WAV/PCM files, then re-compresses them at a chosen
bitrate. Keeping the same bitrate as the original does not mean it stays
pristine outside the edited sections. Each time-consuming Save generates
slightly different data across the whole file.

See the "Caution..." in http://www.goldwave.com/faq.php

From a purist standpoint you should never recompress or "convert" an
already compressed file, except maybe at a higher bitrate to cut losses.
You can work in uncompressed WAV format all day and not affect the non-
edited parts.

With non-destructive apps like "mpTrim" you can tell by the rapid saves
that only specific blocks in the MP3 file are changed. Another app that
does that is "mp3DirectCut," which is more visual. It's like doing
"lossless JPEG transformation" (rotation & cropping) vs. re-saving a JPEG
with subtle changes each time.

I have tested an app called "HiFi WMA Splitter Joiner" that claims to
fade WMA files, but it takes too long to re-save them, making me think
it's no different than what GoldWave, Audacity, etc. does.

Jack

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Byte - 28 May 2007 20:28 GMT

Take a peek here:
Free fade downloads ? My Music Tools
http://www.mymusictools.com/download/fade/

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> There are several free programs that fade MP3 tracks in or out with no
> effect on the original data, but I have only been able to find an (abrupt)
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> Thanks for any info.

Reply to this Message

Jack - 30 May 2007 03:59 GMT

> Take a peek here:
> Free fade downloads ? My Music Tools
> http://www.mymusictools.com/download/fade/

Which software does non-destructive WMA editing? Many apps can "support
WMA" but that has nothing to do with lossless (non-destructive) editing. It
just means the WMA or MP3 file can be loaded, temporarily made into PCM
data, then recompressed. That recompression is where sound quality is
degraded, even if it's only subtle.

Jack

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theplectrum - 30 May 2007 12:49 GMT

>> Take a peek here:
>> Free fade downloads ? My Music Tools
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> Jack

Your ears must be very good cos I can't tell the difference ......

Very few.

Goldwave will decompresse a file if you want to transform it into a wav
format (or mp3) from wma. So it won't fullfill your needs.

Audacity doesn't appear to do that ..... up to you to try.

Cheers,
Jerry

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Jack - 31 May 2007 02:09 GMT

>>> Take a peek here:
>>> Free fade downloads ? My Music Tools
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>
> Your ears must be very good cos I can't tell the difference ......

Headphones usually reveal differences between compressed audio and the
source. Sometimes they're quite bad at lower bitrates. It's often a
narrower sound field or distortion in the trailing edge of a note or cymbal
strike. A lack of "spaciousness" and a "dry" sound is what I notice most.
Some MP3s at 128k sound watery on any decent system (like those made with
the Xing engine). Artifact are usually harder to hear with loudspeakers
where imaging gets blurred by room/car acoustics.

> Goldwave will decompresse a file if you want to transform it into a
> wav format (or mp3) from wma. So it won't fullfill your needs.

I've been a fan of GoldWave since the mid 90s but I'm into purist ideals
and keeping master copies. Re-compressing music is like re-heating a meal
that never quite tastes the same as fresh!

> Audacity doesn't appear to do that ..... up to you to try.

I see that Audacity loads MP3 and OGG but not WMA due to proprietary
issues. I never found it as usable as GoldWave anyhow.

Jack

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