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Windows Forum / Windows XP / Networking and Web / August 2005DNS and DHCP
Hi, I'm a little confused between DHCP and DNS. I have a second computer in my network that can't connect to the Internet. The ISP has a diagnostics feature which checks the settings of the connection in a computer, and the only problem found was that the DNS server can't be pinged. My DHCP server is okay. Is the DNS server and the DHCP server the same? (DSL router) The computer is Win XP Home SP2. Thanks. >Hi, I'm a little confused between DHCP and DNS. I have a second computer in >my network that can't connect to the Internet. The ISP has a diagnostics [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >The computer is Win XP Home SP2. >Thanks. Brian, You might have DHCP and DNS provided by the same Windows server, but each function is separate. DHCP issues IP settings for a computer requesting an IP address. DHCP may or may not provide DNS server information, to any computer requesting an address. DNS resolves (looks up) computer name to address, or address to name. A DNS server will provide the lookup for a computer that registered with it, which may or may not be a computer that used a DHCP server. Most NAT routers provide DHCP services, as they are the hub of a private address LAN. Some NAT routers may provide DNS services, or they may simply relay a DNS request to whatever DNS servers are configured for them. Most NAT routers will not provide DNS registration / lookup for your computers. If you're using a NAT router for DHCP, most likely your DNS server will be one provided by your ISP. How are your computers connected to each other, and to the Internet? Make and model of any network equipment would be useful here.  SignatureCheers, Chuck, MS-MVP [Windows - Networking] http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/ Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience. My email is AT DOT actual address pchuck mvps org. Hi Chuck, The computers both connect to the router through ethernet cables. I ran the Network Setup Wizard to connect the two to each other after installing the router. The router is a VersaLink Gateway model 327W by Westell. > >Hi, I'm a little confused between DHCP and DNS. I have a second computer in > >my network that can't connect to the Internet. The ISP has a diagnostics [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] > How are your computers connected to each other, and to the Internet? Make and > model of any network equipment would be useful here. >> >Hi, I'm a little confused between DHCP and DNS. I have a second computer in >> >my network that can't connect to the Internet. The ISP has a diagnostics [quoted text clipped - 24 lines] >> How are your computers connected to each other, and to the Internet? Make and >> model of any network equipment would be useful here. >Hi Chuck, > >The computers both connect to the router through ethernet cables. I ran the >Network Setup Wizard to connect the two to each other after installing the >router. The router is a VersaLink Gateway model 327W by Westell. Hi Brian, Well, looking at the specs sheet for the 327W, it says the Routing component includes "NAT, DHCP, DNS". I would guess that means that it gets DNS from your ISP (or whoever), and relays same to your computers when requested. I don't think it includes a DNS server for name resolution on your LAN. In your case, you should be getting DNS from your ISP, and resolving names on your LAN through NetBIOS broadcast. <http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/05/address-resolution-on-lan.html> Please provide "ipconfig /all" from both computers, as a start. Read this article, and linked articles, and follow instructions precisely: <http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/05/troubleshooting-network-neighborhood.html# AskingForHelp> SignatureCheers, Chuck, MS-MVP [Windows - Networking] http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/ Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience. My email is AT DOT actual address pchuck mvps org. All right, here's the ipconfig/all (and the browstat, if it will help) for the main computer: Windows IP Configuration Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : RENIERLUBOA Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . : Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Unknown IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection: Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : myhome.westell.com Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Linksys LNE100TX(v5) Fast Ethernet Adapter Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-12-17-50-F0-DC Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.47 Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0 Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1 DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1 DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1 192.168.1.1 Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Sunday, August 28, 2005 2:30:57 PM Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Monday, August 29, 2005 2:30:57 PM --- Status for domain MSHOME on transport \Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{FC1D8958-C582-43E9-900C-550140E86555} Browsing is active on domain. Master browser name is: MICHAELLUBOA Could not connect to registry, error = 5 Unable to determine build of browser master: 5 Unable to determine server information for browser master: 5 1 backup servers retrieved from master MICHAELLUBOA \\MICHAELLUBOA There are 2 servers in domain MSHOME on transport \Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{FC1D8958-C582-43E9-900C-550140E86555} There are 1 domains in domain MSHOME on transport \Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{FC1D8958-C582-43E9-900C-550140E86555} This is for the second computer: Windows IP Configuration Host Name . . . . . . . . . . . . : MichaelLuboa Primary Dns Suffix . . . . . . . : Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . : Unknown IP Routing Enabled. . . . . . . . : No WINS Proxy Enabled. . . . . . . . : No DNS Suffix Search List. . . . . . : myhome.westell.com Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection: Connection-specific DNS Suffix . : myhome.westell.com Description . . . . . . . . . . . : Intel(R) PRO/100 VE Network Connection Physical Address. . . . . . . . . : 00-00-39-87-4C-DB Dhcp Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . : Yes Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . : Yes IP Address. . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.46 Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0 Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1 DHCP Server . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1 DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1 192.168.1.1 Lease Obtained. . . . . . . . . . : Sunday, August 28, 2005 2:29:19 PM Lease Expires . . . . . . . . . . : Monday, August 29, 2005 2:29:19 PM --- Status for domain MSHOME on transport \Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{56A0032E-E7D1-4AE6-88C6-0E10A312A767} Browsing is active on domain. Master browser name is: MICHAELLUBOA Master browser is running build 2600 1 backup servers retrieved from master MICHAELLUBOA \\MICHAELLUBOA There are 2 servers in domain MSHOME on transport \Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{56A0032E-E7D1-4AE6-88C6-0E10A312A767} There are 1 domains in domain MSHOME on transport \Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{56A0032E-E7D1-4AE6-88C6-0E10A312A767} I might be misinterpreting it, but it's odd that MichaelLuboa (the one without Internet access/second computer) is the master browser and not RenierLuboa. Thanks for the help! Two things come to mind: One: You have 2 DNS IPs that are the same. Two: Is your router pulling the ISP information automatically or did you enter them manually? If the latter check the DNS information on the router for your WAN port. > All right, here's the ipconfig/all (and the browstat, if it will help) for > the main computer: [quoted text clipped - 81 lines] > RenierLuboa. > Thanks for the help! >All right, here's the ipconfig/all (and the browstat, if it will help) for >the main computer: [quoted text clipped - 81 lines] >RenierLuboa. >Thanks for the help! Brian, The choice of master browser is a fascinating one, if you're into that sort of thing. You can read my narrative, if you wish: <http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/04/nt-browser-or-why-cant-i-always-see.html> The master browser, when elected, and given equal browser servers, is generally the one that's been powered on the longest. If you wish to make RENIERLUBOA the master browser, you can disable the browser service on MichaelLuboa. Your browser situation, as it is, looks good - both computers recognise the same master browser (MICHAELLUBOA), and both see 2 servers (presumably each other). Both computers are running only NBT as a transport. Both computers are getting DHCP from 192.168.1.1, which appears to point to itself as the immediate DNS server. What make and model NAT router do you have? I would think that you would configure the addresses of the ISP DNS servers into the router settings, so that could be issued to MICHAELLUBOA and RENIERLUBOA. I don't think it's a good idea that both computers should point to 192.168.1.1 twice. Are both computers configured to "Obtain DNS server addresses automatically", or is 192.168.1.1 manually entered into both fields on each computer? Somewhere you have to point to your ISPs DNS server, as no NAT routers that I know of have fully functional DNS servers. Wherever you designate a DNS server, you have either 2 or 3 DNS server address fields, in order that you may designate a primary and one or two backup DNS server addresses. You are not obligated to identify any more than a primary server however. And specifying the same server as primary and backup makes no sense. If the server is dead, it's dead. You need a backup (and a second backup, if your router setup will allow that). SignatureCheers, Chuck, MS-MVP [Windows - Networking] http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/ Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience. My email is AT DOT actual address pchuck mvps org. > Your browser situation, as it is, looks good - both computers recognise the same > master browser (MICHAELLUBOA), and both see 2 servers (presumably each other). [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > to your ISPs DNS server, as no NAT routers that I know of have fully functional > DNS servers. Chuck, The Westell router is the only (NAT) router I have. Both of the computers are configured to obtain the DNS server address automatically (I believe this answers for Tidus4Yuna as well). So should I manually assign a DNS server address for one of the computers (or both, to differ it from the DHCP address)? If so, I'm not sure what addresses I can put in. (I apologize if this is taking a while to solve...) >> Your browser situation, as it is, looks good - both computers recognise the same >> master browser (MICHAELLUBOA), and both see 2 servers (presumably each other). [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] >address)? If so, I'm not sure what addresses I can put in. >(I apologize if this is taking a while to solve...) Brian, This thread is not near as long as many I've been in, don't worry about that. Check the router, and see what DNS settings it has. I'm not sure why you should be picking up (for both MichaelLuboa and RENIERLUBOA): DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1 192.168.1.1 Somewhere you have to have the actual DNS servers that your ISP provides. The server at 192.168.1.1 isn't gonna have any information - it has to get DNS data from somewhere. Where does Tidus4Yuna come into the picture? What DNS servers does it use? SignatureCheers, Chuck, MS-MVP [Windows - Networking] http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/ Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience. My email is AT DOT actual address pchuck mvps org. Chuck, I think I will contact my ISP for the DNS server addresses for that. How do I check the DNS server settings for my router (and change it, should I have the proper DNS server address from my ISP)? There was no "installation" for it, so I'm not sure where to go. Tidus4Yuna also asked if my settings are set to obtain DNS address automatically, I didn't want to ignore his/her post. Thanks. >Chuck, > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >Thanks. Brian, Can you access the router configuration wizard (from your browser)? From looking at the 327W User Guide, it looks like you should have a WAN Configuration menu. You'll have a pair of settings - "DNS Primary" and "DNS secondary", and that's where you want to put the addresses that your ISP provides you. OK, I see now "Tidus4Yuna" was a person. I was thinking you were sneaking a third computer name into the discussion. SignatureCheers, Chuck, MS-MVP [Windows - Networking] http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/ Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience. My email is AT DOT actual address pchuck mvps org. Chuck, Okay, I talked to my ISP and this time the person detected the problem. It went down to him giving me a primary and secondary DNS address, but still I couldn't ping or access a website. He said that something's blocking my DNS from working, and I need to contact my manufacturer for it. The problem is my with computer... The Windows firewall from Network Connections is switched off, my McAfee firewall is on standard settings. >Chuck, > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] >The Windows firewall from Network Connections is switched off, my McAfee >firewall is on standard settings. Brian, See if you need to set MPF to Trust your DNS servers. SignatureCheers, Chuck, MS-MVP [Windows - Networking] http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/ Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience. My email is AT DOT actual address pchuck mvps org. Chuck, What is MPF, and how do I check this setting? Microsoft doesn't seem to explain it in their knowledge database. Thanks a lot. > >Chuck, > > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > See if you need to set MPF to Trust your DNS servers. >> >Chuck, >> > [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] >> >> See if you need to set MPF to Trust your DNS servers. >Chuck, > >What is MPF, and how do I check this setting? Microsoft doesn't seem to >explain it in their knowledge database. >Thanks a lot. Brian, McAfee Personal Firewall. There have been several recent issues involving DNS problems where the personal firewalls, for some reason, have to trust the DNS servers. SignatureCheers, Chuck, MS-MVP [Windows - Networking] http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/ Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience. My email is AT DOT actual address pchuck mvps org. Chuck, I checked my McAfee Firewall and made sure that it trusts my DNS addresses, but that didn't solve it. One thing, though, when I brought my computer out of standby, I received the "Limited or no connection" message. I tried to use Repair but the IP Address couldn't be renewed. So I also tried ipconfig/renew, but it couldn't contact the DHCP server... Could this be another effect of the same problem? (At the time I first posted this problem ipconfig/renew is successful, until today.) I talked to my computer manufacturer and they said that I should reinstall my network driver with its cd. I'm not sure if I have it, but I did see a driver download (Intel PRO/100 VE Network Connection) in the Microsoft website. Would that work just as well? The system doesn't detect any problem with it so far. > >> >Chuck, > >> > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > problems where the personal firewalls, for some reason, have to trust the DNS > servers. >> >> >Chuck, >> >> > [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] >> problems where the personal firewalls, for some reason, have to trust the DNS >> servers. >Chuck, > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >website. Would that work just as well? The system doesn't detect any problem >with it so far. Brian, Before I continue, and whatever you do, do not download driver updates from Microsoft. Download Windows components from Microsoft, but download non-Windows components (third party drivers) only from the vendor. This subject comes up every week. SignatureCheers, Chuck, MS-MVP [Windows - Networking] http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/ Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience. My email is AT DOT actual address pchuck mvps org. Chuck, All right, thanks for the heads up. > Brian, > > Before I continue, and whatever you do, do not download driver updates from > Microsoft. Download Windows components from Microsoft, but download non-Windows > components (third party drivers) only from the vendor. This subject comes up > every week. >> Brian, >> >> Before I continue, and whatever you do, do not download driver updates from >> Microsoft. Download Windows components from Microsoft, but download non-Windows >> components (third party drivers) only from the vendor. This subject comes up >> every week. >Chuck, > >All right, thanks for the heads up. OK, Brian, Based upon what you've done to date, and the current symptom, I think re installing the network card makes the most sense, as the next step. Just forget about the drivers which you may or may not be able to find in your library; get the most recent version available from the vendor, online. For cleanest results: 1) Un install drivers from Device Manager. 2) Reboot. 3) Let the operating system rediscover the network card. Give it the new drivers. 4) Reboot. <http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/08/re-install-your-network-hardware.html> SignatureCheers, Chuck, MS-MVP [Windows - Networking] http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/ Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience. My email is AT DOT actual address pchuck mvps org. Chuck, I lose the connection after restarting a second time. When I restarted the first time, after it detected the ethernet controller and the Intel PRO/100, I could connect again. Then I installed the network driver from the CD (there was no update for it online) and rebooted... but I went back to the same problem. I have a feeling I'm misunderstanding something. The "Intel PRO/100 VE Network Connection" is the driver, right? The one to uninstall from Device Manager and reinstall from the CD...or is the driver another thing? > OK, Brian, > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > 4) Reboot. > <http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/08/re-install-your-network-hardware.html> >> OK, Brian, >> [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >> 4) Reboot. >> <http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/08/re-install-your-network-hardware.html> >Chuck, > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >Network Connection" is the driver, right? The one to uninstall from Device >Manager and reinstall from the CD...or is the driver another thing? Brian, The device "Intel PRO/100 VE" is most likely the network card, and you should find a similarly named entry under Device Manager. When you "un install" that device under Device Manager, you are actually un installing the drivers. If you don't open up the computer, and physically remove the network adapter from the motherboard, that's what you're doing - un installing drivers. Device Manager un installs drivers. After you reboot, the system should recognise the physical device (still attached), and re install the drivers (based upon you providing the most current ones from the vendor for instance). What you're doing is removing all old drivers, before installing new ones. By rebooting between the un install and re install, you are forcing a cleaner install. SignatureCheers, Chuck, MS-MVP [Windows - Networking] http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/ Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience. My email is AT DOT actual address pchuck mvps org. Chuck, Thanks, I understand now. Everything is going as it should be, but it doesn't seem to solve the problem. I forgot to mention, by the way, that the system labeled the Local Area Connection with numbers (the current one is 7). I don't think it's that significant though... In the meantime, my dad's suggesting that we take the laptop to a repair center by the manufacturer tomorrow, to see what's going on. Thanks for all the help so far, I really appreciate it. > Brian, > [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > rebooting between the un install and re install, you are forcing a cleaner > install. |
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