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Windows Forum / Windows XP / New Users / February 2007Bad clusters
Any time i start my system, the system alway require a disk check. A warning that sound like your disk have some sector and needs to be check always appear.  SignatureWindows makin life easy It is advisable to take very seriously any indication that the hard drive is ailing or may die. This is your warning to replace the hard drive and save your data before it's too late. If the computer is a laptop it would be best to get your computer to a person competent to effect a repair. If the computer is a desk top or tower- Disconnect the hard disk Install a new hard disk Install Windows Install threat prevention software Install modem Update Windows Update threat prevention software Scan for threats (you are vulnerable to threats whilst updating Window and threat prevention software) Connect original hard disk Scan original hard disk for threats Install, update and configure other software Transfer user files from the old hard disk to the new hard disk The old hard disk may remain installed and connected as a backup resource. If it does finally die (and affect the running of the computer) just disconnect it. Regards. Bill Ridgeway Computer Solutions > Any time i start my system, the system alway require a disk check. A > warning > that sound like your disk have some sector and needs to be check always > appear. Simply boot to xp cd,recovery,press 1 For C: drive,press enter key for password, type:CHKDSK C: /R This lets xp repair bad clusters if they exist,& chks the file system for errors & fixes them.Type:EXIT When thru.Also,the hd mfg has a MS-DOS hd utility that chks the hd,download to a MS-DOS formatted floppy, boot to floppy,run the test(s). > Any time i start my system, the system alway require a disk check. A warning > that sound like your disk have some sector and needs to be check always > appear. > Simply boot to xp cd,recovery,press 1 For C: drive,press enter key for > password, > type:CHKDSK C: /R This lets xp repair bad clusters if they exist, More nonsense form our resident troll, Andrew E. Chkdsk can repair logical inconsistencies in the drive, but can do nothing to fix bad clusters. Bad clusters are a hardware problem. If the clusters are bad, they stay bad, and can't be fixed. > & > chks the file > system for errors & fixes them.Type:EXIT When thru.Also,the hd mfg > has > a MS-DOS hd utility that chks the hd,download to a MS-DOS formatted > floppy, boot to floppy,run the test(s). Although *some* manufacturers may provide such a utility, unless the drive is FAT32, it can't be run from an MS-DOS formatted floppy. Since most Windows XP users have NTFS drives, this is useless. SignatureKen Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User Please reply to the newsgroup >Any time i start my system, the system alway require a disk check. A warning >that sound like your disk have some sector and needs to be check always >appear. Very likely a sign that your hard drive is about to fail completely. Go to the hard drive manufacturer's website and download their free diagnostic utility. Run that to check the drive for possible hardware defects. If that utility reports a problem with the drive (and from what you have said it most likely will) then you need to run, not walk, to the closest computer supply store and purchase a new hard drive. Good luck Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada SignatureMicrosoft MVP (1997 - 2006) On-Line Help Computer Service http://onlinehelp.bc.ca Syberfix Remote Computer Repair "Anyone who thinks that they are too small to make a difference has never been in bed with a mosquito." A sector is a pie section shape of the platter(s). A cluster is the minimum size of partition space that can be occupied to save a file. A cluster may crossover to another sector. Its possible to map out bad areas of hard drive, and will still be good if its just a few cluster problems. Use the hard drive manufacturers software for this. It will update the hard drive firmware not to use this portion of hard drive. A bad sector, replace it as soon as possible. SignatureNoncompliant For corporate legal advice regarding the EULA for XP, check with a lawyer qualified in corporate law. > Any time i start my system, the system alway require a disk check. A > warning > that sound like your disk have some sector and needs to be check always > appear. >A sector is a pie section shape of the platter(s). >A cluster is the minimum size of partition space that can be occupied to >save a file. A cluster may crossover to another sector. That is a bit unclear. A sector is 512 bytes in size. A cluster is a group of adjacent sectors (1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, or 128) that is treated as a single unit when disk space is allocated to files. >Its possible to map out bad areas of hard drive, and will still be good if >its just a few cluster problems. Use the hard drive manufacturers software >for this. It will update the hard drive firmware not to use this portion of >hard drive. A bad sector, replace it as soon as possible. With modern drives, any indications of bad areas on the drive are most likely a indicator of the probable imminent failure of the entire drive. Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada SignatureMicrosoft MVP (1997 - 2006) On-Line Help Computer Service http://onlinehelp.bc.ca Syberfix Remote Computer Repair "Anyone who thinks that they are too small to make a difference has never been in bed with a mosquito." >>Its possible to map out bad areas of hard drive, and will still be good if >>its just a few cluster problems. Use the hard drive manufacturers software Or use Spinrite http://www.grc.com/intro.htm Just because a very small area of a platter may show signs of magnetic loss, doesn't mean the hard drive is failing itself. Except for SMART capability, cache size, and rotational speed, firmware intervention, there's nothing different about today's hard drive physically. It is prudent to have a backup clone available at all times, Leastwise, an image backup on another physical hard drive. Whether the current used hard drive for XP is showing signs of failure is immaterial. And, may be too late for full use when used as source for a clone or image at that point. SignatureNoncompliant For corporate legal advice regarding the EULA for XP, check with a lawyer qualified in corporate law. >>A sector is a pie section shape of the platter(s). >>A cluster is the minimum size of partition space that can be occupied to [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > > Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada > A sector is a pie section shape of the platter(s). No, actually it's not. A sector is a portion of a single track on the platter, not a portion of the entire platter. Although other computers/operating systems may use different size sectors, for our purposes here, in Windows, a sector is always 512 bytes. > A cluster is the minimum size of partition space that can be occupied > to save a file. A cluster may crossover to another sector. More than "may cross over," for modern versions of Windows and drives that aren't tiny. The size of a cluster depends on the file system and, for some file systems, the size of the partition. Clusters (or allocation units, as they are sometimes called) are always whole numbers of sectors. For NTFS, clusters are 4Kbytes, or exactly eight sectors. > Its possible to map out bad areas of hard drive, and will still be > good if its just a few cluster problems. Hard drive problems are always with sectors, not with clusters. The sectors are marked on the drive and the division into sectors is almost like a hardware function. Clusters, on the other hand, are identified only to the software. > Use the hard drive > manufacturers software for this. It will update the hard drive > firmware not to use this portion of hard drive. A bad sector, > replace it as soon as possible. No, that's backwards. You are again treating a "sector" as if it's a "pie section shape of the platter," something larger than a cluster. It's the other way around. Sectors are 512 bytes, and clusters are (almost always) larger than sectors. The issue with failing drives isn't so much how many sectors are bad, but whether the number remains constant. A few sectors that can be mapped out are fine. But if the number keeps increasing, watch out! Lele's symptoms sound to me like his drive may be failing. But before I'm willing to say that, I'd like him to tell us what he does when he's told to runa disk check. Lele, do you do the disk check? What are the results? SignatureKen Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User Please reply to the newsgroup >> Any time i start my system, the system alway require a disk check. A >> warning >> that sound like your disk have some sector and needs to be check >> always appear. >> -- >> Windows makin life easy Thanks for the sector education. I do know zero write software from WD will map out bad areas. The OS, including XP, cannot "see" these bad areas. Where is such mapping out of bad areas kept for future partitioning and filesystem purposes? I know the OS, including XP, cannot see or use these bad areas. SignatureNoncompliant For corporate legal advice regarding the EULA for XP, check with a lawyer qualified in corporate law. >> A sector is a pie section shape of the platter(s). > [quoted text clipped - 44 lines] >>> -- >>> Windows makin life easy Nevermind, found answer at a website I frequent for such questions. You're right about the sector thing, although could be 256 bytes as well in size. Forgot the sector thing cut throught the tracks, the track x sector cut makes the sector in the pie shaped arrangement. http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/geom/tracks.htm Use to be lacking ads many years ago, but now is filled with them. Be careful. SignatureNoncompliant > Thanks for the sector education. I do know zero write software from WD > will map out bad areas. The OS, including XP, cannot "see" these bad [quoted text clipped - 50 lines] >>>> -- >>>> Windows makin life easy Ken Are you sure about this statement "For NTFS, clusters are 4Kbytes, or exactly eight sectors."? My reaction is "It ain't necessarily so"! SignatureRegards. Gerry ~~~~ FCA Stourport, England Enquire, plan and execute ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > More than "may cross over," for modern versions of Windows and > drives that aren't tiny. The size of a cluster depends on the > file system and, for some file systems, the size of the > partition. Clusters (or allocation units, as they are sometimes > called) are always whole numbers of sectors. For NTFS, clusters > are 4Kbytes, or exactly eight sectors. > Ken > > Are you sure about this statement "For NTFS, clusters are 4Kbytes, or > exactly eight sectors."? > > My reaction is "It ain't necessarily so"! You are technically right, of course. The normal default NTFS clusters are 4-kbytes. There are circumstances in which they can be otherwise, for example, if you convert from FAT32 to NTFS, you usually get 512-byte clusters. In the interests of simplicity, I left out that detail. SignatureKen Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User Please reply to the newsgroup >> More than "may cross over," for modern versions of Windows and >> drives that aren't tiny. The size of a cluster depends on the >> file system and, for some file systems, the size of the >> partition. Clusters (or allocation units, as they are sometimes >> called) are always whole numbers of sectors. For NTFS, clusters >> are 4Kbytes, or exactly eight sectors. Ken I was reading an article the other day that implied that using a larger cluster size than 4 kb could enhance performance given the right circumstances. Thus a dedicated "my Photos" partition with a much larger cluster size would perform better because of a lower overhead! Any comment? Obviously one needs a tool that can change the cluster size! SignatureHope this helps. Gerry ~~~~ FCA Stourport, England Enquire, plan and execute ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> Ken >> [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >>> called) are always whole numbers of sectors. For NTFS, clusters >>> are 4Kbytes, or exactly eight sectors. > Ken > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > much larger cluster size would perform better because of a lower > overhead! Any comment? I've seen statements many times in the past that indicated that having a larger cluster size (regardless of file system)could enhance performance, at at the expense of wasting more of that drive to slack. From a theoretical point of view, I think this has to be correct. The fewer clusters you have to read or write, the faster things have to be. But from a practical standpoint, I doubt very much if it often makes any perceptible difference in performance. SignatureKen Blake - Microsoft MVP Windows: Shell/User Please reply to the newsgroup > Obviously one needs a tool that can change the cluster size! > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] >>>> called) are always whole numbers of sectors. For NTFS, clusters >>>> are 4Kbytes, or exactly eight sectors. |
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