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Windows Forum / Windows XP / Performance and Maintainance / October 2005Bad block
A routine check of my Event Viewer shows the entry "The device, \Device\Harddisk0\D, has a bad block." Only a day before, I'd run a chkdsk d:, and that didn't report anything. WinXP desktop was up when I returned to PC after chkdsk had finished. I deliberately did not use the /f switch, as I wanted to see if there were any problems. So: Assuming that 'bad block' hadn't just arisen, how do I square the two? And what if anything should I now do please?  SignatureTerry, West Sussex, UK After you are done running chkdsk c: /f, upon reboot look in the event viewer for an entry called winlogon. That is the result of the chkdsk, right there for your pleasure. SignatureRegards, Richard Urban Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User If you knew as much as you think you know, You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew! >A routine check of my Event Viewer shows the entry "The device, > \Device\Harddisk0\D, has a bad block." [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > And what if anything should I now do please? >After you are done running chkdsk c: /f, upon reboot look in the event >viewer for an entry called winlogon. That is the result of the chkdsk, right >there for your pleasure. Thanks both. Neat tip re Winlogon. Presumably it doesn't work for plain chkdsk though (no fix), as I can't find any entry for the recent check of D that I described. The most recent one is over 3 weeks old. I assume it corresponds to a chkdsk d: /f I did then. FWIW, here is its summary: Checking file system on D: The type of the file system is NTFS. Volume label is Data. A disk check has been scheduled. Windows will now check the disk. Cleaning up minor inconsistencies on the drive. Cleaning up 7 unused index entries from index $SII of file 0x9. Cleaning up 7 unused index entries from index $SDH of file 0x9. Cleaning up 7 unused security descriptors. 46283233 KB total disk space. 15181140 KB in 111190 files. 40756 KB in 10295 indexes. 4 KB in bad sectors. 233081 KB in use by the system. 65536 KB occupied by the log file. 30828252 KB available on disk. Does chkdsk even find/report 'Bad blocks'? SignatureTerry, West Sussex, UK Bad sectors! SignatureRegards, Richard Urban Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User If you knew as much as you think you know, You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew! >>After you are done running chkdsk c: /f, upon reboot look in the event >>viewer for an entry called winlogon. That is the result of the chkdsk, [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > > Does chkdsk even find/report 'Bad blocks'? Go to the web site of the manufacturer of your hard disk, then download and run their disk diagnostics. If there is a problem with your disk, the manufacturer will replace the disk under warranty. Ted Zieglar >A routine check of my Event Viewer shows the entry "The device, > \Device\Harddisk0\D, has a bad block." [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > And what if anything should I now do please? On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 08:56:45 +0100, Terry Pinnell >A routine check of my Event Viewer shows the entry "The device, >\Device\Harddisk0\D, has a bad block." >Only a day before, I'd run a chkdsk d:, and that didn't report >anything. WinXP desktop was up when I returned to PC after chkdsk had >finished. I deliberately did not use the /f switch, as I wanted to see >if there were any problems. ChkDsk and ChkDsk /f may trip over a bad block if it's still in use, but they don't test the disk surface for these; that's ChkDsk /r (I think - I don't use ChkDsk for this). Instead, I'd get HD Tune from www.hdtune.com and do three things: - check the S.M.A.R.T. history detail - check temperature before and after the surface test - do the "slow" surface test; any defects is Bad Unlike some HD vendor's utilities that just give you a glib "OK" after checking S.M.A.R.T., tools like HD Tune can show you the raw data, as well as "you aren't dead yet" interpretation. It's not that easy to understand, but Google is your friend :-) See also 22 September (second newest - I'm a slow blogger!) at http://cquirke.blogspot.com on this topic, heh. >--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - I *am* a power user! I have electricity bills to prove it! >--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - > On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 08:56:45 +0100, Terry Pinnell > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > well as "you aren't dead yet" interpretation. It's not that easy to > understand, but Google is your friend :-) I prefer Gibson Research's Spinrite 6 personally, but I have been using Spinrite since version 1. I just upgraded a few months ago when I had a disk drive suddenly start showing errors all over. I couldn't use Ghost to backup the drive because of the bad sectors. Running Spinrite on the drive cleared up the problems long enough for me to clone the drive and replace it. > See also 22 September (second newest - I'm a slow blogger!) at > http://cquirke.blogspot.com on this topic, heh. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >>--------------- ----- ---- --- -- - - - On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 01:07:25 GMT, "Michael W. Ryder" >> Instead, I'd get HD Tune from www.hdtune.com and do three things: >> - check the S.M.A.R.T. history detail >> - check temperature before and after the surface test >> - do the "slow" surface test; any defects is Bad >I prefer Gibson Research's Spinrite 6 personally, but I have been using >Spinrite since version 1. I just upgraded a few months ago when I had a >disk drive suddenly start showing errors all over. I couldn't use Ghost >to backup the drive because of the bad sectors. Running Spinrite on the >drive cleared up the problems long enough for me to clone the drive and >replace it. I also have Spinrite (I bought Spinrite 5) but haven't had a success case as yet (i.e. where it recovered access to lost material). I don't feel bad about the value equation, as what I paid is more than paid back by value Steve G has provided for free (Fix CIH, Trouble In Paradise utility for Zip drives, etc.). The feature sets are quite different, too... - Spinrite accesses OS volumes, HD Tune is OS-agnostic - Spinrite optionally writes to HD to fix, HD Tune doesn't - HD Tune shows S.M.A.R.T. and temperature, Spinrite doesn't So I don't see one as substituting for the other - I'd use HD Tune first (starting with Temperature and S.M.A.R.T. and bailing out to data recovery without stressing the HD via surface test if these results are scary) then I'd recover data if bad, then I'd Spinrite and do a second recovery while keeping the first. What's really nice about HD Tune is you can watch the temperature while the surface scan is in progress, and you can switch to the SMART tab and watch the S.M.A.R.T. counters change as the surface scan is in progress as well. I usually take a digital photo of the S.M.A.R.T. tab at start and end of surface test to compare. The temperature is always visible, no matter what tab (benchmarks, S.M.A.R.T., surface etc.) is selected. Nice! >-- Risk Management is the clue that asks: "Why do I keep open buckets of petrol next to all the ashtrays in the lounge, when I don't even have a car?" >----------------------- ------ ---- --- -- - - - - >I prefer Gibson Research's Spinrite 6 personally, but I have been using >Spinrite since version 1. I just took a look at that. But for a solo home user I hesitate at spending over 100USD ($89 + VAT)! I have just found and run another one, HDDLife. As you see from these it *seems* to be reporting I'm OK. http://www.terrypin.dial.pipex.com/Images/HDDLife-HD0CD.jpg http://www.terrypin.dial.pipex.com/Images/HDDLife-HD1EF.jpg http://www.terrypin.dial.pipex.com/Images/HDDLife-HD2J.jpg (I've scrolled the lower window to show the pertinent partitions: 0=C&D; 1=E&F; 2=J) Do you agree with that reassuring report from the program (which reached its conclusions in only a few minutes, BTW)? To my inexperienced eyes it seems worrying that the temperature of HD0, the HD under discussion, is so much higher than the other two. The relative ages of these 3 is HD0 = 3 yrs, HD1 = 2 yrs, HD2 = 1 month. BTW, if you'll excuse my going off at a tangent, I'm disappointed that HD2, which I had assumed would be similar to my other Maxtors, is treated as a 'SCSI' HD, and therefore outside the scope of this 'SMART' stuff. That's presumably due to the PCI card I had to install first, which is a 'HighPoint Rocket 133 2CH'?. WinXP Home Device manager now includes another category, 'SCSI & RAID Controller', under which I have the entry '-HPT302 UDMA/ATA133 Controller'. Anyway, it's new and healthy so I'll forget about that now. SignatureTerry, West Sussex, UK >>I prefer Gibson Research's Spinrite 6 personally, but I have been using >>Spinrite since version 1. > > I just took a look at that. But for a solo home user I hesitate at > spending over 100USD ($89 + VAT)! I guess it depends how much your data and time are worth. As it can cost well over $300.00 to recover data from a defective hard drive, not to mention the lost time, the price is a bargain. I have used Spinrite since the days of DOS 3.x and it has saved me a lot of time and grief. And it is a nice way to really test a hard drive. I realize that isn't as important with today's disposable hard drives, but when you are spending $400 for a 40 MB hard drive it is important. > I have just found and run another one, HDDLife. As you see from these > it *seems* to be reporting I'm OK. [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > HD under discussion, is so much higher than the other two. The > relative ages of these 3 is HD0 = 3 yrs, HD1 = 2 yrs, HD2 = 1 month. Spinrite's test will take several hours to check every single byte on the drive, not just do a quick test like Scandisk. I would be ready to replace HD0 as my last disk that failed was that age. One day it was "fine" and the next day it was unusable. Fortunately for me the new version of Spinrite worked with NTFS partitions and was able to fix the problems long enough to Ghost the drive to a new one. So I spent a couple of hours fixing the drive instead of several weeks. If you are looking for an easier way to monitor drive temperatures take a look at Speedfan. It will basically give you the same information you are getting from HDDLife and will also monitor the other temperatures in your computer and the voltages. From this you can see if there is another problem that may be affecting the hard drives. > BTW, if you'll excuse my going off at a tangent, I'm disappointed that > HD2, which I had assumed would be similar to my other Maxtors, is [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > which I have the entry '-HPT302 UDMA/ATA133 Controller'. Anyway, it's > new and healthy so I'll forget about that now. "cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)" <cquirkenews@nospam.mvps.org> wrote: >On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 08:56:45 +0100, Terry Pinnell > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > - check temperature before and after the surface test > - do the "slow" surface test; any defects is Bad >Unlike some HD vendor's utilities that just give you a glib "OK" after >checking S.M.A.R.T., tools like HD Tune can show you the raw data, as >well as "you aren't dead yet" interpretation. It's not that easy to >understand, but Google is your friend :-) Thanks, sounds good. But that link fails, with a timeout error. Any idea if it's just a temporary problem, or has the site gone? Is there an alternative source to download this please? FWIW, my worries are growing. On top of the evidence from chkdsk reporting bad block and bad sectors, I've just run HDTach (which I had around from a couple of years ago) and it failed during the final of the 4-part 'Quick Test', the Sequential Read. Message like "Error reported..." >See also 22 September (second newest - I'm a slow blogger!) at >http://cquirke.blogspot.com on this topic, heh. Thanks, reading now. Some of it technically over my head, but very interesting nevertheless. SignatureTerry, West Sussex, UK Terry, E-Mail me . SignatureRegards, Richard Urban Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User Quote from George Ankner: If you knew as much as you think you know, You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew! > "cquirke (MVP Windows shell/user)" <cquirkenews@nospam.mvps.org> > wrote: [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > Thanks, reading now. Some of it technically over my head, but very > interesting nevertheless. Here's an update of current (bad) status. It's now definite that HD0, the 4 (not 3) year old MAXTOR 6L060J3 60 GB HD that came with my PC, is at risk of failing. The evidence so far includes - chkdsk reporting bad block/bad sectors, as already described - HDTach failing during its Sequential Read (part of Quick Test) - HDTune: HD Tune: MAXTOR 6L060J3 Health ------------------------------ (HD0, partitions C & D. This is the suspect drive.) ID Current Worst ThresholdData Status (01) Raw Read Error Rate 100 253 20 0 Ok (03) Spin Up Time 67 64 20 4174 Ok (04) Start/Stop Count 100 100 8 321 Ok (05) Reallocated Sector Count 99 99 20 9 Failed (07) Seek Error Rate 100 1 23 0 Failed (09) Power On Hours Count 60 60 1 26756 Ok (0A) Spin Retry Count 100 100 0 0 Ok (0B) Calibration Retry Count 100 100 20 0 Ok (0C) Power Cycle Count 100 100 8 284 Ok (0D) Soft Read Error Rate 100 77 23 0 Ok (C2) Temperature 82 75 42 47 Ok (C3) Hardware ECC Recovered 100 1 0 39294398 Ok (C4) Reallocated Event Count 100 100 20 0 Ok (C5) Current Pending Sector 99 99 20 9 Ok (C6) Offline Uncorrectable 100 253 0 0 Ok (C7) Ultra DMA CRC Error Count 193 193 0 7 Ok Power On Time : 26756 Health Status : Failed For comparison, here's the report on HD1 (partitions E & F) which is physically identical to above, about 3 yrs old. HD Tune: MAXTOR 6L060J3 Health ------------------------------- ID Current Worst ThresholdData Status (01) Raw Read Error Rate 100 253 20 0 Ok (03) Spin Up Time 67 64 20 4131 Ok (04) Start/Stop Count 100 100 8 242 Ok (05) Reallocated Sector Count 100 100 20 0 Ok (07) Seek Error Rate 100 100 23 0 Ok (09) Power On Hours Count 67 67 1 22104 Ok (0A) Spin Retry Count 100 100 0 0 Ok (0B) Calibration Retry Count 100 100 20 0 Ok (0C) Power Cycle Count 100 100 8 231 Ok (0D) Soft Read Error Rate 100 100 23 0 Ok (C2) Temperature 84 78 42 43 Ok (C3) Hardware ECC Recovered 100 100 0 3805 Ok (C4) Reallocated Event Count 100 100 20 0 Ok (C5) Current Pending Sector 100 100 20 0 Ok (C6) Offline Uncorrectable 100 253 0 0 Ok (C7) Ultra DMA CRC Error Count 200 200 0 0 Ok Power On Time : 22104 Health Status : Ok I also did an error scan on HD0 and it reports 4 bad blocks. And here's the Inf' tab for HD0: http://www.terrypin.dial.pipex.com/Images/HDTune-HD0-Info.gif (A side issue is that Active entry, bottom right, which is the same for both HD0 and HD1, which says I'm only using ATA/100 not 133.) I've also downloaded Powermax and made the floppy, but haven't yet run it. To be honest, I'm now nervous about running *anything* that might risk complete loss, before I get my act together. Without truly understanding it, I read stuff about 'stressing' the HD, and fret that maybe PowerMax might do that. Sort of tip it over the edge! In any case, my action plan is now clear. I'll shop for another HD today (probably not a Maxtor this time) and aim to install it asap. Meanwhile, I need to get myself some security fast. Can't face the prospect of a re-install! Luckily I added a new HD only a couple of months ago, so I do have plenty of space. My HDs and partitions are: HD0 (the failing disk) --------------------- C: my Win XP Home OS and about half my program files D: most of my data and the other half of my program files. HD1 (60 GB; identical to HD0) ----------------------------- E: Bootable copy of OS, but now 2 months old F: Backups (Most data, and most settings, but not programs.) HD2 (200 GB Maxtor, recently installed, via new PCI card) -------------------------------------------------------- J: Pictures and Music mainly My data backups are pretty good. But I haven't been backing up C:\Program Files and D:\Program Files. I don't use OE except when forced to for some reason. My Agent email/newsreader folders are all backed up nightly. I have PQ PM 7.0 and PQ DI 2002. Rarely used, and have to re-study manuals when I do so! I made a direct copy (not image) of Win XP Home onto E: a couple of months ago, with PowerQuest Drive Image 2002. Apart from an initial 'reassurance test', I haven't used it since. But one of my jobs today will be to update that copy on E: That's assuming these bad sectors/blocks don't screw that up? Can't get enough hand-holding! SignatureTerry, West Sussex, UK On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 11:33:35 +0100, Terry Pinnell >Here's an update of current (bad) status. >It's now definite that HD0, the 4 (not 3) year old MAXTOR 6L060J3 60G >HD that came with my PC, is at risk of failing. Not "at risk"; it IS failing! >The evidence so far includes >- chkdsk reporting bad block/bad sectors, as already described >- HDTach failing during its Sequential Read (part of Quick Test) >HD Tune: MAXTOR 6L060J3 Health >ID Current Worst ThresholdData Status >(05) Reallocated Sector Count 99 99 20 9 Failed [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >(C5) Current Pending Sector 99 99 20 9 Ok >(C7) Ultra DMA CRC Error Count 193 193 0 7 Ok Raw data suggests "fixed" and "failed to fix" sectors at the firmware level; the latter would be visible to ChkDsk/AutoChk. Is that temperature 82C? Worst-recorded 75C? Those are high temperatures, if those are indeed the values. Getting hot and falling on its a.s is something even the lamest single-platter 40G model Maxtors seem to do with aplomb. >For comparison, here's the report on HD1 (partitions E & F) which is >physically identical to above, about 3 yrs old. [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] >ID Current Worst ThresholdData Status >(C2) Temperature 84 78 42 43 Ok Maybe those temperatures are massaged and/or in F? >To be honest, I'm now nervous about running *anything* that might >risk complete loss ...such as "load a ton of files, run them as code, and constantly write to HD" Windows, for starters... >I read stuff about 'stressing' the HD, and fret that maybe >PowerMax might do that. Sort of tip it over the edge! Of course - what would you rather have, 10 pages of impeccable diagnostic proof of the HD's death throes, or your data? I'd say you've had more than the amount of warning you can expect - hell, even the vendor's S.M.A.R.T. summary is telling you the HD is dying - and Darwin's teeth must surely be close at hand. Wake up and smell the blood :-( >------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - - The most accurate diagnostic instrument in medicine is the Retrospectoscope >------------ ----- ---- --- -- - - - - |
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