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Windows Forum / Windows XP / General Topics 1 / May 2008

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Which virus/spyware scanners?

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void.no.spam.com@gmail.com - 08 May 2008 22:11 GMT
If you wanted to be certain that a Windows computer was not infected
with any viruses/spyware/trojans/etc, which scanners would you use?
Just.some.guy - 08 May 2008 22:33 GMT
> If you wanted to be certain that a Windows computer was not infected
> with any viruses/spyware/trojans/etc, which scanners would you use?

Zone Alarm Security Suite is what I use...along with Windows Defender, and
Spybot.
Straight Talk - 09 May 2008 05:33 GMT
>> If you wanted to be certain that a Windows computer was not infected
>> with any viruses/spyware/trojans/etc, which scanners would you use?
>
>Zone Alarm Security Suite is what I use...

Right. And what security measures do you have in place?

>along with Windows Defender, and
>Spybot.

Why do you install spyware in the first place?
Just.some.guy - 09 May 2008 07:58 GMT
>>> If you wanted to be certain that a Windows computer was not infected
>>> with any viruses/spyware/trojans/etc, which scanners would you use?
>>
>>Zone Alarm Security Suite is what I use...
>
> Right. And what security measures do you have in place?

What security measures do you think I have in place? I answered the
question.

>>along with Windows Defender, and
>>Spybot.
>
> Why do you install spyware in the first place?

Why would anyone *install* spyware? That doesn't make sense since most
people are trying to keep it *out* of their computers.
Straight Talk - 09 May 2008 17:42 GMT
>>>> If you wanted to be certain that a Windows computer was not infected
>>>> with any viruses/spyware/trojans/etc, which scanners would you use?
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>What security measures do you think I have in place? I answered the
>question.

Ohh.. You actually *were* talking about ZA???  Well, ZA is not a
security measure. It's a pseudo-security toy for the ignorant masses.

>>>along with Windows Defender, and
>>>Spybot.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>Why would anyone *install* spyware? That doesn't make sense since most
>people are trying to keep it *out* of their computers.

In fact most people *do* install it - by deliberately clicking on all
kinds of crap and installing all kinds of stuff from dubious sources.
Heck, even some crapware clearly states in the EULA that it's going to
install some additional "ware"- and still people continue. So called
ad- and spyware is mainly a social engineering problem and mainly due
to lack of knowledge.

By staying away from inherently broken software and keeping what you
have continuously patched the likelihood of getting any malware at all
is reduced to a minimum unless you deliberately install it yourself.
Just.some.guy - 09 May 2008 18:31 GMT
>>>>> If you wanted to be certain that a Windows computer was not infected
>>>>> with any viruses/spyware/trojans/etc, which scanners would you use?
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> Ohh.. You actually *were* talking about ZA???  Well, ZA is not a
> security measure. It's a pseudo-security toy for the ignorant masses.

It's a security measure. Just not one that *you* are impressed with.

>>>>along with Windows Defender, and
>>>>Spybot.
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
> ad- and spyware is mainly a social engineering problem and mainly due
> to lack of knowledge.

Then some people don't *know* they are getting spyware into their
computers...but they are NOT installing it, like they install other
programs. That's just dumb! And then you asked "Why do you install spyware
in the first place?". It was another stupid idiotic assumption on your part,
because I don't...I read.

> By staying away from inherently broken software and keeping what you
> have continuously patched the likelihood of getting any malware at all
> is reduced to a minimum unless you deliberately install it yourself.
Straight Talk - 09 May 2008 20:53 GMT
>Then some people don't *know* they are getting spyware into their
>computers...but they are NOT installing it, like they install other
>programs.

Well, that depends of the definition of install.
Install..run...whatever...

>That's just dumb!

Yes. Installing malware is dumb.

>And then you asked "Why do you install spyware
>in the first place?".

Very good question, that was.

>It was another stupid idiotic assumption on your part,
>because I don't...I read.

You don't?? - Then why are you looking for removal tools???

>> By staying away from inherently broken software and keeping what you
>> have continuously patched the likelihood of getting any malware at all
>> is reduced to a minimum unless you deliberately install it yourself.
Just.some.guy - 10 May 2008 14:35 GMT
(gibberish snipped)

>>It was another stupid idiotic assumption on your part,
>>because I don't...I read.
>
> You don't?? - Then why are you looking for removal tools???

Who said I am *looking* for removal tools? Are you drunk? Lol.

(snipped)
Ron - 10 May 2008 15:49 GMT
On May 10, 9:35 am, "Just.some.guy"
<return.em...@address.not.valid.com> wrote:
> (gibberish snipped)
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> (snipped)

What a moron. (not you)
Craig - 09 May 2008 20:16 GMT
> On Fri, 09 May 2008 06:58:02 GMT, "Just.some.guy"
...
>> Why would anyone *install* spyware? That doesn't make sense since most
>> people are trying to keep it *out* of their computers.
>
> In fact most people *do* install it - by deliberately clicking on all
> kinds of crap and installing all kinds of stuff from dubious sources.

"Dubious" isn't a useful distinction anymore, ST[1].

Legitimate websites (e.g. business and government[2]), have been turned
into malware delivery systems via sql, iframe & javascript exploits.

To the OP;

A lot of us are looking for a silver bullet when it comes to malware
but, it'll never be that simple.  It's best to have a /strategy/.  This
takes time to learn & research but the benefit is incalculable.  There
are a number of security strategies out there.  The one that I find
reasonable is referred to as "multi-layered."  An explanation of the
multi-layered strategy is offered by Guy Huntington[3].  It may seem
over-the-top but give it time to sink in.  It's as relevant to an
end-user as a CIO.  Plus, it has pretty pictures <grin>.

hth,
-Craig

1)<http://www.usenix.org/event/hotbots07/tech/full_papers/provos/provos.pdf>
2)<http://www.news.com/8301-10789_3-9925637-57.html?tag=nefd.top>
  <http://www.crn.com/security/207401671>
3)<http://www.authenticationworld.com/Access-Control-Authentication/NetworkAccessCo
ntrolSecurityStrategy2006.pdf
>
Straight Talk - 09 May 2008 21:14 GMT
>> On Fri, 09 May 2008 06:58:02 GMT, "Just.some.guy"
>...
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>Legitimate websites (e.g. business and government[2]), have been turned
>into malware delivery systems via sql, iframe & javascript exploits.

I was referring to deliberately installing stuff from dubious sources
(web sites, file sharing applications, random CD's etc.) - not to
accidentally being hit by some drive by malware which again mostly
target older already patched vulnerabilities.

And honestly, what do you think works most efficiently against a
vulnerability?  
1) A patch
  or
2) An anti-malware engine which even adds further potentially
vulnerable code?

>To the OP;
>
>A lot of us are looking for a silver bullet when it comes to malware
>but, it'll never be that simple.  It's best to have a /strategy/.

It is. Relying on scanners and removal tools is far from being a
sensible strategy, though.

>This takes time to learn & research but the benefit is incalculable.  There
>are a number of security strategies out there.  The one that I find
>reasonable is referred to as "multi-layered."  An explanation of the
>multi-layered strategy is offered by Guy Huntington[3].  It may seem
>over-the-top but give it time to sink in.  It's as relevant to an
>end-user as a CIO.  Plus, it has pretty pictures <grin>.

Multi-layered is an often misunderstood term. E.g. adding several
different kinds of anti-thingies does not fulfil multi-layering.
Craig - 09 May 2008 22:49 GMT
>>> On Fri, 09 May 2008 06:58:02 GMT, "Just.some.guy"
>> ...
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> 2) An anti-malware engine which even adds further potentially
> vulnerable code?

Honestly, you don't care what I answer.  And, wonder of wonders, your
question is tangential at best.  One isn't "accidentally being hit by
some drive by malware."  To claim as much...

For someone who claims to be informed, you do more disservice to these
discussions of security than the simply ignorant.

-Craig
baynole2@yahoo.com - 09 May 2008 22:44 GMT
So stay off the Web!!
Straight Talk - 10 May 2008 11:32 GMT
>So stay off the Web!!

Nah...
Big Al - 08 May 2008 22:40 GMT
> If you wanted to be certain that a Windows computer was not infected
> with any viruses/spyware/trojans/etc, which scanners would you use?
AVG or Avast seem to be running a good bet on the newsgroups here for virus.
Zonealarm for firewall.
All 3 are free.
philo - 08 May 2008 23:05 GMT
> > If you wanted to be certain that a Windows computer was not infected
> > with any viruses/spyware/trojans/etc, which scanners would you use?
> AVG or Avast seem to be running a good bet on the newsgroups here for virus.
> Zonealarm for firewall.
> All 3 are free.

Yep

either AVG or Avast are good

I recently switched my firewall from Zonealarm over to Comodo
however
...

One other useful utility is Spybot S&D
Al Smith - 08 May 2008 23:45 GMT
>> > void.no.spam.com@gmail.com wrote:
>>> > > If you wanted to be certain that a Windows computer was not infected
[quoted text clipped - 13 lines]
>
> One other useful utility is Spybot S&D

How's Comodo working for you? I tried it a year or so ago, but it
kept blocking stuff that I didn't want blocked, and didn't need
blocked. I went back to ZoneAlarm.

-Al-
Kayman - 10 May 2008 02:10 GMT
> How's Comodo working for you? I tried it a year or so ago, but it
> kept blocking stuff that I didn't want blocked, and didn't need
> blocked. I went back to ZoneAlarm.

For the average homeuser, the Windows Firewall in XP SP 2 does a fantastic
job at its core mission and is really all you need if you have an
'real-time' anti-virus program, [another firewall on your router or] other
edge protection like SeconfigXP and practise safe-hex.

The windows firewall deals with inbound protection and therefore does not
give you a false sense of security. Best of all, it doesn't implement lots
of nonsense like pretending that outbound traffic needs to be monitored.

PFW Criticism.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_firewall#Criticisms

"Personal Firewalls" are mostly snake-oil.
http://www.samspade.org/d/firewalls.html

Why your firewall sucks.
http://tooleaky.zensoft.com/
"But I quickly realized the truth: The added protection provided by
outbound filtering is entirely illusory."

At Least This Snake Oil Is Free.
http://msinfluentials.com/blogs/jesper/archive/2007/07/19/at-least-this-snake-oi
l-is-free.aspx


Deconstructing Common Security Myths.
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/technetmag/issues/2006/05/SecurityMyths/default.aspx
Scroll down to:
"Myth: Host-Based Firewalls Must Filter Outbound Traffic to be Safe."
Ron - 10 May 2008 16:00 GMT
> >> > void.no.spam.com@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> > > If you wanted to be certain that a Windows computer was not infected
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>
> -Al-

Comodo is a major PITA, at least it is to me.

I use Sygate and love it!

http://www.filehippo.com/software/firewalls/
Big Al - 10 May 2008 16:08 GMT
>>>>> void.no.spam.com@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>> If you wanted to be certain that a Windows computer was not
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
>
> http://www.filehippo.com/software/firewalls/

But your link says sygate is no longer available.  (free use).   Is that
wise to use?
Ron - 10 May 2008 20:33 GMT
> >>>>> void.no.spam.com@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>>> If you wanted to be certain that a Windows computer was not
[quoted text clipped - 30 lines]
> But your link says sygate is no longer available.  (free use).   Is that
> wise to use?

Yes, it works fine. I've been using it for about a yr. w/o any problems.
Straight Talk - 10 May 2008 22:53 GMT
>> > I use Sygate and love it!
>> >
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
>Yes, it works fine. I've been using it for about a yr. w/o any problems.

Malware you'd allow to run wouldn't experience any problems either.
Just.some.guy - 10 May 2008 23:45 GMT
>>> > I use Sygate and love it!
>>> >
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Malware you'd allow to run wouldn't experience any problems either.

You never answered my question. When did I say I was looking for removal?
Huh? Huh?? When did I say that? Answer me! Answer me now! Now I say!!! C'mon
straight talk...be straight with me. You want to *act* like you're an expert
on computers, but we know the real deal don't we? (wink wink) lol
Straight Talk - 11 May 2008 05:59 GMT
>>>> > I use Sygate and love it!
>>>> >
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>straight talk...be straight with me. You want to *act* like you're an expert
>on computers, but we know the real deal don't we? (wink wink) lol

I wonder what your problem is. Apart from dealing with old, outdated
and windows-incompatible "security" software, that is.
Nicetameetya - 11 May 2008 06:18 GMT
[Default] On Sun, 11 May 2008 04:59:04 GMT, Straight Talk
<b__nice@hotmail.com> told us in complete confidence:

>I wonder what your problem is. Apart from dealing with old, outdated
>and windows-incompatible "security" software, that is.

Personally, my problem with you is that, instead of answering people's
questions or addressing the issue raised, you preach ... and you not
only preach, but preach the same sermon over and over and over, ad
nauseam like one of those Linux nuts. Guess it's time to give my
killfile something new to chew on ...
Straight Talk - 12 May 2008 08:59 GMT
>[Default] On Sun, 11 May 2008 04:59:04 GMT, Straight Talk
><b__nice@hotmail.com> told us in complete confidence:
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>nauseam like one of those Linux nuts. Guess it's time to give my
>killfile something new to chew on ...

Feel free - but don't believe others care who you killfile.
Ron - 11 May 2008 06:07 GMT
On May 10, 6:45 pm, "Just.some.guy"
<return.em...@address.not.valid.com> wrote:

> >>> > I use Sygate and love it!
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> straight talk...be straight with me. You want to *act* like you're an expert
> on computers, but we know the real deal don't we? (wink wink) lol

For once, maybe twice, we agree.

The poster is a f.cking moron.
Ron - 11 May 2008 06:05 GMT
> >> > I use Sygate and love it!
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
> Malware you'd allow to run wouldn't experience any problems either.

Your truly are a f.cking moron, period!
Straight Talk - 11 May 2008 06:20 GMT
>> >> > I use Sygate and love it!
>>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
>Your truly are a f.cking moron, period!

Not much of an argument. You obviously have a problem defending your
choice of "security" measure.

SyGate is a security disaster - but you most likely wouldn't care.
Ron - 11 May 2008 06:28 GMT
> >> >> > I use Sygate and love it!
>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> Not much of an argument. You obviously have a problem defending your
> choice of "security" measure.

Hack my computer, moron.

> SyGate is a security disaster - but you most likely wouldn't care.

Hack my computer, moron.
Ron - 12 May 2008 04:53 GMT
> > >> >> > I use Sygate and love it!
>
[quoted text clipped - 17 lines]
>
> Hack my computer, moron.

I'm still waiting, a.shole.
Straight Talk - 12 May 2008 08:57 GMT
>> SyGate is a security disaster - but you most likely wouldn't care.
>
>Hack my computer, moron.

Why should I bother, moron?

Heck, your question even proves that you don't even understand the
problems of SyGate.
Just.some.guy - 12 May 2008 11:42 GMT
>>> SyGate is a security disaster - but you most likely wouldn't care.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
> Heck, your question even proves that you don't even understand the
> problems of SyGate.

What question did he ask? When did he ask it? Do *you* even understand what
a question is? First you think I'm asking for help with removal tools, now
you think he asked a question. 'I think you need to seek help'. (that's not
a question but a statement:-)
Straight Talk - 12 May 2008 22:49 GMT
>>>> SyGate is a security disaster - but you most likely wouldn't care.
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>What question did he ask? When did he ask it?

He repeatedly asked me to hack his computer, didn't he?
Ron - 12 May 2008 23:05 GMT
> On Mon, 12 May 2008 10:42:42 GMT, "Just.some.guy"
>
[quoted text clipped - 12 lines]
>
> He repeatedly asked me to hack his computer, didn't he?

I didn't ask, idiot.

Still waiting, BTW.
Just.some.guy - 13 May 2008 01:35 GMT
>>>>> SyGate is a security disaster - but you most likely wouldn't care.
>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
> He repeatedly asked me to hack his computer, didn't he?

Um...uh...er...hate to tell you this..but no... he didn't. Try again.. this
is funny:-)
Just.some.guy - 13 May 2008 01:52 GMT
>>>>>> SyGate is a security disaster - but you most likely wouldn't care.
>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
> Um...uh...er...hate to tell you this..but no... he didn't. Try again..
> this is funny:-)

Ok...no response from you. He *dared* you to hack his computer. That's not a
question...there *is* a difference.
Straight Talk - 13 May 2008 05:25 GMT
>Ok...no response from you. He *dared* you to hack his computer. That's not a
>question...there *is* a difference.

Sorry. I can't solve your comprehension problems.
Franklin - 13 May 2008 13:32 GMT
>>Ok...no response from you. He *dared* you to hack his computer.
>>That's not a question...there *is* a difference.
>
> Sorry. I can't solve your comprehension problems.

Hi Straight Talk

I think people are saying that Rom sort of *commanded* you to hack his
computer as opposed to making a *request* that you do it.

If you manage to hack his computer then the semantics make no real
difference.

Franklin
Straight Talk - 13 May 2008 05:23 GMT
>>>>>> SyGate is a security disaster - but you most likely wouldn't care.
>>>>>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>Um...uh...er...hate to tell you this..but no... he didn't. Try again.. this
>is funny:-)

Yes it is. I never claimed to be able to hack his computer. Still the
idiot continues to challenge me. Very funny indeed.
Ron - 13 May 2008 05:39 GMT
> On Tue, 13 May 2008 00:35:04 GMT, "Just.some.guy"
>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
> Yes it is. I never claimed to be able to hack his computer. Still the
> idiot continues to challenge me. Very funny indeed.

You said "SyGate is a security disaster" but yet you can't    hack my
computer....how come, genius?

Backup your claim that "SyGate is a security disaster", somehow,
someway.
Straight Talk - 14 May 2008 06:52 GMT
>You said "SyGate is a security disaster" but yet you can't    hack my
>computer....how come, genius?

You seem to have forgotten exactly what I said to you. I said "Malware
you'd allow to run wouldn't experience any problems either.", which is
exactly true. SyGate is unable to protect against locally run malware.
It even has unfixed bugs for malware to take advantage from.

>Backup your claim that "SyGate is a security disaster", somehow,
>someway.

Just look at the technical design which ignores the most basic
security recommendations of Microsoft. Add to that the unfixed bugs
that won't be fixed because you're running an unsupported piece of
crap.
Ron - 14 May 2008 20:17 GMT
> >You said "SyGate is a security disaster" but yet you can't    hack my
> >computer....how come, genius?
>
> You seem to have forgotten exactly what I said to you.

I didn't forget anything...........

"SyGate is a security disaster - but you most likely wouldn't care."

> >Backup your claim that "SyGate is a security disaster", somehow,
> >someway.
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> that won't be fixed because you're running an unsupported piece of
> crap.

Hack my computer. (this isn't a question, BTW)
Straight Talk - 14 May 2008 20:53 GMT
>> >You said "SyGate is a security disaster" but yet you can't    hack my
>> >computer....how come, genius?
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
>Hack my computer. (this isn't a question, BTW)

I see you ran out of arguments....
Ron - 14 May 2008 21:04 GMT
> >> >You said "SyGate is a security disaster" but yet you can't    hack my
> >> >computer....how come, genius?
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>
> I see you ran out of arguments....

The only "argument" is you saying that "SyGate is a security
disaster", backup your claim by hacking my computer.
Straight Talk - 14 May 2008 21:11 GMT
>> >> >You said "SyGate is a security disaster" but yet you can't    hack my
>> >> >computer....how come, genius?
[quoted text clipped - 19 lines]
>The only "argument" is you saying that "SyGate is a security
>disaster", backup your claim by hacking my computer.

You simply don't get it...
Ron - 14 May 2008 21:18 GMT
> >> >> >You said "SyGate is a security disaster" but yet you can't    hack my
> >> >> >computer....how come, genius?
[quoted text clipped - 21 lines]
>
> You simply don't get it...

And you simply can't hack my computer...lol
§ - 14 May 2008 21:22 GMT
>> You simply don't get it...
>
> And you simply can't hack my computer...lol

Of course he can't hack your computer, but it has little to do with
Sygate.

You need hak0r skills to hack a PC :)
Ron - 15 May 2008 00:01 GMT
> >> You simply don't get it...
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> You need hak0r skills to hack a PC :)

This is kinda my point, for a HOME PC Sygate works just fine.

I'm running W2K, so I have to use something, but for most people with
newer OS's, the Microsoft FW is just fine for home use.

Of course I'm sure Mr Straight Talk will discredit that also.
§ - 15 May 2008 02:00 GMT
>>>> You simply don't get it...
>>> And you simply can't hack my computer...lol
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
> I'm running W2K, so I have to use something, but for most people with
> newer OS's, the Microsoft FW is just fine for home use.

Actually w2k does have some pretty good protection in it's own right.

Check out; http://homepages.wmich.edu/~mchugha/w2kfirewall.htm

Much better than what any 3rd party sw *firewall* has to offer.

> Of course I'm sure Mr Straight Talk will discredit that also.

Doubtful.  The built in XP firewall works well enough, for a sw
*firewall*, that is.

If your on a some form of broadband, then your on a network.  Protecting
the network is where the focus should be.
Straight Talk - 15 May 2008 04:29 GMT
>> >> You simply don't get it...
>>
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
>
>I'm running W2K, so I have to use something,

but for most people with
>newer OS's, the Microsoft FW is just fine for home use.
>
>Of course I'm sure Mr Straight Talk will discredit that also.
Straight Talk - 15 May 2008 04:35 GMT
>> >> You simply don't get it...
>>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>
>This is kinda my point, for a HOME PC Sygate works just fine.

What does "works just fine" mean? - Does it mean "gives the impression
of security without causing too much trouble"?

>I'm running W2K, so I have to use something,

Not necessarily. Just make sure to shut down your network services so
you don't expose any open ports.

>but for most people with
>newer OS's, the Microsoft FW is just fine for home use.
>
>Of course I'm sure Mr Straight Talk will discredit that also.

Then you are wrong again.
Ron - 15 May 2008 05:57 GMT
> >> >> You simply don't get it...
>
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> What does "works just fine" mean? - Does it mean "gives the impression
> of security without causing too much trouble"?

It means my HOME CP won't be hacked by ppl like you. Wake up.

> >I'm running W2K, so I have to use something,
>
> Not necessarily. Just make sure to shut down your network services so
> you don't expose any open ports.

Done, and Sygate takes care of the rest.

> >but for most people with
> >newer OS's, the Microsoft FW is just fine for home use.
>
> >Of course I'm sure Mr Straight Talk will discredit that also.
>
> Then you are wrong again.

Oh, so the Windows FW is just fine, but Sygate is a "security
disaster"?
Straight Talk - 15 May 2008 06:08 GMT
>> >> >> You simply don't get it...
>>
[quoted text clipped - 11 lines]
>
>It means my HOME CP won't be hacked by ppl like you. Wake up.

Now, you wake up!. As I've said, If a hacker could just trick you into
running a piece of code, hacking you would be trivial - SyGate or not.

>> >I'm running W2K, so I have to use something,
>>
>> Not necessarily. Just make sure to shut down your network services so
>> you don't expose any open ports.
>
>Done, and Sygate takes care of the rest.

The rest? - There is no rest to take care of....

>> >but for most people with
>> >newer OS's, the Microsoft FW is just fine for home use.
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>Oh, so the Windows FW is just fine, but Sygate is a "security
>disaster"?

From a security standpoint Windows FW is significantly better than
SyGate. No firewall at all with no services exposed is even better
(more secure).

You still fail to recognize the obvious design issues with SyGate.
Issues the windows FW doesn't have. But who cares. You are beyond
educational reach....
Straight Talk - 15 May 2008 04:37 GMT
>> >> >> >You said "SyGate is a security disaster" but yet you can't    hack my
>> >> >> >computer....how come, genius?
[quoted text clipped - 23 lines]
>
>And you simply can't hack my computer...lol

Your stupidity is overwhelming.
Ron - 15 May 2008 05:44 GMT
> >And you simply can't hack my computer...lol
>
> Your stupidity is overwhelming.

And your overwhelming stupidity can't hack my computer...lol

Come on....I've got hot naked pics of my G/F on here.

You do like hot naked women, don't ya?

BTW, what FW, antivirus, and antispyware do you use?
Straight Talk - 15 May 2008 06:16 GMT
>> >And you simply can't hack my computer...lol
>>
>> Your stupidity is overwhelming.
>
>And your overwhelming stupidity can't hack my computer...lol

And your comprehension problem seems even worse.

>Come on....I've got hot naked pics of my G/F on here.

Ouch..... that's enough to keep me away.... no firewall needed....

>You do like hot naked women, don't ya?

Oh, yes. But that wasn't the case here, was it? - In fact you seem to
have a big problem staying on topic.

>BTW, what FW, antivirus, and antispyware do you use?

Not that I think it matters anything to you, but I use the Windows FW
(since it's there). Apart from that, nothing - except common sense,
skepticism and staying away from inherently insecure app's.
Ron - 15 May 2008 06:24 GMT
> >BTW, what FW, antivirus, and antispyware do you use?
>
> Not that I think it matters anything to you, but I use the Windows FW
> (since it's there). Apart from that, nothing - except common sense,
> skepticism and staying away from inherently insecure app's.

Good for you! I'm done!
Just.some.guy - 15 May 2008 06:49 GMT
(snipped)

>>BTW, what FW, antivirus, and antispyware do you use?
>
> Not that I think it matters anything to you, but I use the Windows FW
> (since it's there). Apart from that, nothing - except common sense,
> skepticism and staying away from inherently insecure app's.

You don't use any anti-virus or spyware protectors? What happens if you go
to a malicious website that you don't know is malicious? Windows FW usually
only work one-way.
rodney.usenet@gmail.com - 15 May 2008 07:40 GMT
On 15 mei, 07:49, "Just.some.guy" <return.em...@address.not.valid.com>
wrote:
> (snipped)
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> You don't use any anti-virus or spyware protectors? What happens if you go
> to a malicious website that you don't know is malicious? .

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/722

And how often does your av find anything ? My AV has not found
anything since my last 3 installs of XP, nor has there been found any
spyware by multiple spyware scanners. Common sense seems to work.

> Windows FW usually only work one-way

Outbound control aims at controlling malicious thingies calling out
from your pc. Just make sure they don't get there (inbound control).
And once there is malware on your system there's no way to tell what
it's doing. Only lazy malware programmers forget to bypass your
firewall.
Straight Talk - 15 May 2008 23:10 GMT
>(snipped)
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>You don't use any anti-virus or spyware protectors?

No. Not unless I decide to run some trial version for testing
purposes. Never finds anything unless I deliberately fire some bad
code at it.

>What happens if you go to a malicious website that you don't know is
>malicious?

Normally nothing. But I could ask you the same question. What do you
do? When was the last time your AV protected you in a similar
situation? You have to consider this possibility whether you are
running an AV or not.

>Windows FW usually only work one-way.

Yes. Which is exactly what a host based packet filter should do. Local
outbound protection against malicious code is so unreliable it's not
worth it.
Nicetameetya - 11 May 2008 00:00 GMT
[Default] On Sat, 10 May 2008 15:33:58 -0400, "Ron"
<bigelile05@msn.com> told us in complete confidence:

>> >>>>> void.no.spam.com@gmail.com wrote:
>> >>>>>>> If you wanted to be certain that a Windows computer was not
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
>
>Yes, it works fine. I've been using it for about a yr. w/o any problems.

Does anyone have a download link for Sygate (free) that's valid? Or is
the product no longer available, period?
Nicetameetya - 11 May 2008 00:23 GMT
[Default] On Sun, 11 May 2008 11:00:49 +1200, Nicetameetya
<gday@anonymous.invalid.con> told us in complete confidence:

>>> But your link says sygate is no longer available.  (free use).   Is that
>>> wise to use?
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>Does anyone have a download link for Sygate (free) that's valid? Or is
>the product no longer available, period?

Opps. Shouda checked the link first. It works just fine and I've just
downloaded Sygate Personal Firewall 5.6.2808.
Ron - 11 May 2008 06:20 GMT
> [Default] On Sun, 11 May 2008 11:00:49 +1200, Nicetameetya
> <g...@anonymous.invalid.con> told us in complete confidence:
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> Opps. Shouda checked the link first. It works just fine and I've just
> downloaded Sygate Personal Firewall 5.6.2808.

It's a very good FW for someone that likes (or needs :) to block
certain out going traffic, but doesn't want the sh.t bugged out of
them every 2 seconds (Comodo).

If you need/want a good FW that you don't need to "answer", then
Sunbelt Kerio is the FW for you.
baynole2@yahoo.com - 09 May 2008 00:14 GMT
On May 8, 5:11 pm, "void.no.spam....@gmail.com"
<void.no.spam....@gmail.com> wrote:
> If you wanted to be certain that a Windows computer was not infected
> with any viruses/spyware/trojans/etc, which scanners would you use?

I go to http://housecall65.trendmicro.com/

I use a-squared as a scanner in addition to SpyBot.

The most thorough scan I have seen is the higher level at Panda online
scans.
Straight Talk - 09 May 2008 05:36 GMT
>On May 8, 5:11 pm, "void.no.spam....@gmail.com"
><void.no.spam....@gmail.com> wrote:
>> If you wanted to be certain that a Windows computer was not infected
>> with any viruses/spyware/trojans/etc, which scanners would you use?
>
>I go to http://housecall65.trendmicro.com/

You really can't rely on online scanners.

>I use a-squared as a scanner in addition to SpyBot.
>
>The most thorough scan I have seen is the higher level at Panda online
>scans.

Online scans are a joke.
rodney.usenet@gmail.com - 09 May 2008 07:48 GMT
> >I go tohttp://housecall65.trendmicro.com/
>
> You really can't rely on online scanners.
>
> Online scans are a joke.

Hi ST,

Could you explain why online scanners are not reliable ?
TIA
Straight Talk - 09 May 2008 17:48 GMT
>> >I go tohttp://housecall65.trendmicro.com/
>>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>Could you explain why online scanners are not reliable ?
>TIA

Hint: Your computer needs to be fully up and running to do an online
scan.

This means malware has all the advantages in the world to hide itself.
rodney.usenet@gmail.com - 10 May 2008 08:25 GMT
> On Thu, 8 May 2008 23:48:56 -0700 (PDT), rodney.use...@gmail.com
> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 14 lines]
>
> This means malware has all the advantages in the world to hide itself.

That makes sense
Kayman - 10 May 2008 02:07 GMT
>>>I go tohttp://housecall65.trendmicro.com/
>>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
> Could you explain why online scanners are not reliable ?

On-line scanners are the most unsafe and next to useless. Because by the
time you've started your infected Windows and connected to the
Internet via this infected code base, and start to look for scanning sites
through infected DNS, you are almost certain to have the malware
perfectly positioned to overrule your attempts to clean it.
What happens if active malware is found? Don't expect that the on-line
scanner will do anything about it. Most of them are just just marketing
tools for selling you their products. Quite often, malware removal on the
NT based OS (Win 2K and XP) is far from easy. Sometimes a (good) resident
AV can deal with it in Safe Mode.

David's Multi-AV is *better and safer*, because you don't have to be
on-line to use it (it has no dependencies on using a web browser to perform
its function), and it can be used in Safe Mode.

Download David H. Lipman's MULTI_AV.EXE from the URL:
http://www.pctipp.ch/ds/28400/28470/Multi_AV.exe
http://www.pctipp.ch/downloads/dl/35905.asp
English:
http://www.raymond.cc/blog/archives/2008/01/09/scan-your-computer-with-multiple-
anti-virus-for-free/

When the menu is displayed hitting 'H' or 'h' will bring up a more
comprehensive PDF help file.
Additional Instructions:
http://pcdid.com/Multi_AV.htm

It's safer still if you can avoid running any code from the infected system
at all, and that can be done by working from Bart CDR boot.
But that means having a clean system to build the Bart disk, and more to
the point, a fair bit of effort and technical fiddling.

Bart's Preinstalled Environment (BartPE) bootable live windows CD/DVD
http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/

Good luck :)
rodney.usenet@gmail.com - 10 May 2008 08:32 GMT
> >> You really can't rely on online scanners.
>
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> through infected DNS, you are almost certain to have the malware
> perfectly positioned to overrule your attempts to clean it.

that makes sense

> David's Multi-AV is *better and safer*, because you don't have to be
> on-line to use it (it has no dependencies on using a web browser to perform
> its function), and it can be used in Safe Mode.
>
> http://pcdid.com/Multi_AV.htm

Thanks, already use that. I'm almost dissappointed that none of the
AV's ever find anything.
Kayman - 10 May 2008 09:41 GMT
>>>> You really can't rely on online scanners.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
> Thanks, already use that. I'm almost dissappointed that none of the
> AV's ever find anything.

Don't be, consider yourself as 'bloody good and safe' operater :-)
Kayman - 10 May 2008 10:13 GMT
>>>>> You really can't rely on online scanners.
>>>
[quoted text clipped - 18 lines]
>
> Don't be, consider yourself as 'bloody good and safe' operater :-)

Oh, I almost forget; In case you didn't know, David's Multi-AV version 6.0
is out and has added an A-S scanning in the Trend Micro module.
Straight Talk - 10 May 2008 11:35 GMT
>> >> You really can't rely on online scanners.
>>
[quoted text clipped - 16 lines]
>Thanks, already use that. I'm almost dissappointed that none of the
>AV's ever find anything.

Funny you mention that. AV vendors sometimes tend to mark any slightly
suspicious cookie file as malicious and clean it out just to look
important :-)
Ike - 09 May 2008 03:12 GMT
Avast! or AVG (free) or NOD (pay)
  plus
Spybot
  plus
GMER
  plus
An occasional HiJack This scan and 3rd party
  analysis of the results

If all are updated and managed properly, you have
reasonably secure email habits, have carefully set up
your browser, and are the only user of the computer,
you're quite safe.

> If you wanted to be certain that a Windows computer was not infected
> with any viruses/spyware/trojans/etc, which scanners would you use?
Straight Talk - 09 May 2008 05:30 GMT
>If you wanted to be certain that a Windows computer was not infected
>with any viruses/spyware/trojans/etc, which scanners would you use?

Scanners don't guarantee a clean machine. In fact anti-software
vendors are slowly loosing the battle against modern malware.

Better to avoid installing malware in the first place (it's actually
not that hard).
dazed''nconfuzed - 10 May 2008 00:37 GMT
I'm a big fan of CA security suite- nothing has gotten through in the 4
years I've used it. The only downside: it's pricey, but if you're serious
about security, this is the one.
http://shop.ca.com/malware/internet_security_suite.aspx
HTH
"unknown" wrote:
Kayman - 10 May 2008 03:00 GMT
> If you wanted to be certain that a Windows computer was not infected
> with any viruses/spyware/trojans/etc, which scanners would you use?

Security software manufacturers tend to overstate their product description
to instill fear and uncertainty; After all it's all about the $ almighty.
Please step back and try to remove the advertisement hype from your mind.

In WinXP the most dependable defenses are:
1.  Do not work as 'Administrator'; For day-to-day work routinely use a
   Limited User Account (LUA).
2.  Secure (Harden) your operating system (OS).
3.  Keep your OS and all software on it updated/patched.
4.  Reconsider the usage of MSIE and MSOE.
5.  Review your installed 3rd party software applications/utilities;
   Remove clutter.
6.  Don't expose services to public networks.
7.  Activate the in-build firewall and configure Windows not to use
   TCP/IP as transport protocol for NetBIOS, SMB and RPC, thus leaving
   TCP/UDP ports 135,137-139 and 445 (the most exploited Windows
   networking weak point) closed.
7a. If on high-speed internet use a router as well.
8.  Routinely practice safe-hex.
9.  Regularly back-up data/files.
10. Familiarize yourself with crash recovery tools and re-installing
   your OS.
11. Utilize a real-time anti-virus (AV) application and vital system
   monitoring utilities/applications.
12. Keep abreast of latest developments - Sh!t happens...you know.
The least preferred defenses are:
Myriads of popular anti-whatever things and staying ignorant.
Educational Reading:
Security @ home
http://home20.inet.tele.dk/b_nice/index.htm

Good luck :)
§ - 10 May 2008 06:05 GMT
>> If you wanted to be certain that a Windows computer was not infected
>> with any viruses/spyware/trojans/etc, which scanners would you use?
[quoted text clipped - 31 lines]
>
> Good luck :)

*hands the kayman a brew*
Kayman - 10 May 2008 06:32 GMT
>>> If you wanted to be certain that a Windows computer was not infected
>>> with any viruses/spyware/trojans/etc, which scanners would you use?
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
>
> *hands the kayman a brew*

...as a matter of fact, I've got one *right now* (San Miguel-Pale
Pilsen...mmmh :-)
Craig - 10 May 2008 09:25 GMT
>>>> If you wanted to be certain that a Windows computer was not infected
>>>> with any viruses/spyware/trojans/etc, which scanners would you use?
[quoted text clipped - 34 lines]
> ...as a matter of fact, I've got one *right now* (San Miguel-Pale
> Pilsen...mmmh :-)

Well then, a tip o' me pint in your general direction, Kayman.  Very
solid survey.

thx,
-Craig
Kayman - 10 May 2008 08:49 GMT
>>>>> If you wanted to be certain that a Windows computer was not infected
>>>>> with any viruses/spyware/trojans/etc, which scanners would you use?
[quoted text clipped - 37 lines]
> Well then, a tip o' me pint in your general direction, Kayman.  Very
> solid survey.

Oh boy, I'd better stop posting....all that kindness is making me
intoxicated :-)
Franklin - 10 May 2008 07:21 GMT
>> If you wanted to be certain that a Windows computer was not
>> infected with any viruses/spyware/trojans/etc, which scanners
[quoted text clipped - 33 lines]
>    Security @ home
> http://home20.inet.tele.dk/b_nice/index.htm

Good sensible stuff.  

The trouble seems to be that many users want a solution so easy that
they can install and forget it and which needs no maintenance
effort.

The belief that this is possible is sustained by security center
suites which are marketed as if they can do this.
Kayman - 10 May 2008 09:26 GMT
>>> If you wanted to be certain that a Windows computer was not
>>> infected with any viruses/spyware/trojans/etc, which scanners
[quoted text clipped - 35 lines]
>
> Good sensible stuff.  

Thanks. And, with the exception of a router and reliable back-up software,
it's all freely available :-)

> The trouble seems to be that many users want a solution so easy that
> they can install and forget it and which needs no maintenance
> effort.

Yes, it's because too many users are blinded by marketing ballyhoos and
don't bother to research or question the motives of the makers of software
security ware. Many user apply some sort of a software because of an
appealing website or good looking icon and don't care to research for
alternatives and appropriateness.
If you're running a car without preventative M&R it'll come to a grinding
halt eventually.

> The belief that this is possible is sustained by security center
> suites which are marketed as if they can do this.

Apropos marketing,  here is a good example:
Go to...
http://www.sunbelt-software.com/Home-Home-Office/Sunbelt-Personal-Firewall/
...and follow all the hype created by Sunbelt's *Marketing Department*.

[quote]
Still use the free Windows XP firewall?
Unfortunately, this gives you a false sense of security. It only protects
incoming traffic. But outgoing traffic, with your credit card info, social
security number, bank accounts, passwords and other confidential
information is not protected. The WinXP firewall will let it all go out.
But... SPF will block that data if you buy the FULL version! You absolutely
need a better, commercial-grade firewall.
So here is the *killer deal*....
[/quote]
Yeah, right. Talking about (killer deal) scare tactics :-)

Then read in...
Windows Personal Firewall Analysis
http://www.matousec.com/projects/windows-personal-firewall-analysis/leak-tests-r
esults.php#firewalls-ratings

...a more realistic view which obviously was drafted by the head of
Sunbelt's *Operations Department*.

Sunbelt Software - the vendor of Sunbelt Kerio Personal Firewall

[quote]
Sunbelt Software is committed to providing the strongest possible security
products to its customers, and we will be working to correct demonstrable
issues in the Sunbelt Personal Firewall. Users can expect these and other
continuing enhancements for the Sunbelt Personal Firewall in the near
future.

However, we have some reservations about personal firewall "leak testing"
in general. While we appreciate and support the unique value of independent
security testing, we are admittedly skeptical as to just how meaningful
these leak tests really are, especially as they reflect real-world
environments.

The key assumption of "leak testing" -- namely, that it is somehow useful
to measure the outbound protection provided by personal firewalls in cases
where malware has already executed on the test box -- strikes us as a
questionable basis on which to build a security assessment. Today's malware
is so malicious and cleverly designed that it is often safest to regard PCs
as so thoroughly compromised that nothing on the box can be trusted once
the malware executes. In short, "leak testing" starts after the game is
already lost, as the malware has already gotten past the inbound firewall
protection.

Moreover, "leak testing" is predicated on the further assumption that
personal firewalls should warn users about outbound connections even when
the involved code components are not demonstrably malicious or suspicious
(as is the case with the simulator programs used for "leak testing"). In
fact, this kind of program design risks pop-up fatigue in users,
effectively lowering the overall security of the system -- the reason
developers are increasingly shunning this design for security applications.

Finally, leak testing typically relies on simulator programs, the use of
which is widely discredited among respected anti-malware researchers -- and
for good reason. Simulators simply cannot approximate the actual behavior
of real malware in real world conditions. Furthermore, when simulators are
used for anti-malware testing, the testing process is almost unavoidably
tailored to fit the limitations of simulator instead of the complexity of
real world conditions. What gets lost is a sense for how the tested
products actually perform against live, kicking malware that exhibits
behavior too complex to be captured in narrowly designed simulators.
[/quote]

Anybody who worked for a large company understands the fundamental
differences between Marketing and Operations.
'nuff said :-)

Cheers...
Craig - 10 May 2008 10:34 GMT
>>>> If you wanted to be certain that a Windows computer was not
>>>> infected with any viruses/spyware/trojans/etc, which scanners
[quoted text clipped - 38 lines]
> it's all freely available :-)
>  

point of information;

For those with Seagate and/or Maxtor harddrives, they've something
called the Disc Wizard which is a repackaged Acronis backup & other
utilities....free: <http://www.seagate.com/www/en-us/support/downloads/>

Now, we're down to the exception of a router.  <grin>

-Craig
Kayman - 10 May 2008 09:51 GMT
>>>>> If you wanted to be certain that a Windows computer was not
>>>>> infected with any viruses/spyware/trojans/etc, which scanners
[quoted text clipped - 46 lines]
>
> Now, we're down to the exception of a router.  <grin>

That's wonderful :-)
rodney.usenet@gmail.com - 10 May 2008 08:43 GMT
> In WinXP the most dependable defenses are:

1 to 10:
check

> 11. Utilize a real-time anti-virus (AV) application and vital system
>     monitoring utilities/applications.

What "vital system monitoring utilities/applications" would I be
looking for ?
Kayman - 10 May 2008 09:40 GMT
>> In WinXP the most dependable defenses are:
>
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
> What "vital system monitoring utilities/applications" would I be
> looking for ?

Well, here is what *I* use:
Process Explorer
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-au/sysinternals/bb896653.aspx
AutoRuns for Windows
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-au/sysinternals/bb963902.aspx
TCPView for Windows
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-au/sysinternals/bb897437.aspx

A number of good quality tutorials can be Googled.

WALLWATCHER - Collect, View, and Analyze Router Logs
http://sonic.net/wallwatcher/
Zaphod - 10 May 2008 14:09 GMT
On May 9, 8:11 am, "void.no.spam....@gmail.com"
<void.no.spam....@gmail.com> wrote:
> If you wanted to be certain that a Windows computer was not infected
> with any viruses/spyware/trojans/etc, which scanners would you use?

I disagree with the idea that witha Windows machine that "you cant be
sure" .. as much as I am not overly fond of microshaft .. it is
possible with just a few programs to stay safe  with either AVG or
Avira you can be virus covered .. AVG on any none 2k xp machines (poor
Vista owners) and with an XP machine windows defender... add the extra
browsing safety of firefox and up dating the hosts file and being
behind a hardware firewall rather than just a software one (broadband
has brought extra safety here as the hardware firewall often exists in
the modem and or router) and you can be quite safe ... infact I have
some stupid customers who try anything to screw up their machines with
spyware etc and they have not had a single problem with this setup.
I do however get the odd phone cal asking why i cant open a certain
web site .. and on investigation you find they are trying to access
"the hun" or some other malicious site to get their dose of free
porn ... and I've even been asked to remove an entry from the hosts
file so one man could look at his porn site even after I showed him
the evidence that this site potentially give a certain virus I was
informed to go ahead and remove the entry!
Casey - 11 May 2008 22:46 GMT
In article <f2597bbe-8e92-4ee4-bff4-
6c0bc15f7d33@a70g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>, void.no.spam.com@gmail.com
says...
> If you wanted to be certain that a Windows computer was not infected
> with any viruses/spyware/trojans/etc, which scanners would you use?

For Viruses take a look at:
http://www.antivirusyellowpages.com/
Casey
 
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