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Windows Forum / Windows XP / General Topics 1 / May 2008After XP SP3 pemanently fragmented files
PC= 2.8MHz Celeron + 1GB ram + loads disc space I have pemanently fragmented files. The defragmentation tool says the relevant file names are in the report but nothing is listed. Files defragmented properly prior to SP3 (which was SP2). Coincidence? The PC is fairly clean. Very little runs at start-up and nothing new operates compared with the setup with SP2.  SignatureRegards Stephen Ford > PC= 2.8MHz Celeron + 1GB ram + loads disc space > I have pemanently fragmented files. The defragmentation tool says the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > The PC is fairly clean. Very little runs at start-up and nothing new > operates compared with the setup with SP2. Do you have Windows Live Messenger installed? Alias > PC= 2.8MHz Celeron + 1GB ram + loads disc space > I have pemanently fragmented files. The defragmentation tool says the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > The PC is fairly clean. Very little runs at start-up and nothing new > operates compared with the setup with SP2. While having all files completely continguous might give you a warm feeling of satisfaction, having a few fragmentend files makes no measurable difference on the performance of your PC - so why worry? Stephen Are you using the Microsoft Disk Defragmenter or a third party defragmenter. Can you provide a copy of the Report. Not all fragmented files appear in the Most Fragmented Files lists! Open Disk Defragmenter and click on Analyse. Select View Report and click on Save As and Save. Now find VolumeC.txt in your My Documents Folder and post a copy. Do this before running Disk Defragmenter as it is more informative. SignatureHope this helps. Gerry ~~~~ FCA Stourport, England Enquire, plan and execute ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > PC= 2.8MHz Celeron + 1GB ram + loads disc space > I have pemanently fragmented files. The defragmentation tool says the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > The PC is fairly clean. Very little runs at start-up and nothing new > operates compared with the setup with SP2. > PC= 2.8MHz Celeron + 1GB ram + loads disc space > I have pemanently fragmented files. The defragmentation tool says the [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > The PC is fairly clean. Very little runs at start-up and nothing new > operates compared with the setup with SP2. If you're not actually having a problem with the way the computer is operating then I'd suggest not worrying too much about the defragger muttering over a couple of files. >> PC= 2.8MHz Celeron + 1GB ram + loads disc space >> I have pemanently fragmented files. The defragmentation tool says the [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > operating then I'd suggest not worrying too much about the defragger > muttering over a couple of files. To some people, a fragmented file is like having a set of encyclopedia with a paperback copy of "Bawdy Tales of King Arthur's Knights" stuck between the volumes "PQ" and "R". It's just not seemly. >>> PC= 2.8MHz Celeron + 1GB ram + loads disc space >>> I have pemanently fragmented files. The defragmentation tool says [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > It's just not seemly. I understand that some people dislike it, I just don't see why they do! Life's too short to worry about theoretical problems that don't matter! >>> PC= 2.8MHz Celeron + 1GB ram + loads disc space >>> I have pemanently fragmented files. The defragmentation tool says the [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > It's just not seemly. If you introduced a tool that could display the physical location of each file on the the disk then some people would go to extreme lengths to ensure that all files belonging to a specific folder were stored on adjacent disk clusters. It would make no difference to the PC's performance but it would satisfy their sense of tidiness. As Robert suggested, life is too short to worry about such irrelevant matters. >> To some people, a fragmented file is like having a set of >> encyclopedia with a paperback copy of "Bawdy Tales of King Arthur's [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > As Robert suggested, life is too short to worry about such > irrelevant matters. Sounds like an opportunity for a software developer to fill a need... Imagine: A utility to arrange file locations alphabetically! >> If you introduced a tool that could display the physical location >> of each file on the the disk then some people would go to extreme [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > Imagine: A utility to arrange file locations alphabetically! ROFL! >>> If you introduced a tool that could display the physical location >>> of each file on the the disk then some people would go to extreme [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > ROFL! Go ahead. Laugh at those afflicted with Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder! It's insensitive types like you who see nothing wrong with the absence of ramps for the disabled at Hogwarts! Even the top rung of the scaling ladders used in Lord of the Rings were marked: "This is not a step." (You have to look closely.) Did I miss something here? It looks like several levels of discussion passed by my news reader and disappeared into outer space. All I got is seen below. If permanently fragmented files are usual, then fine in post-SP2. It's just I'm not used to seeing them SignatureRegards Stephen Ford >>>> If you introduced a tool that could display the physical location >>>> of each file on the the disk then some people would go to extreme [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > Even the top rung of the scaling ladders used in Lord of the Rings were > marked: "This is not a step." (You have to look closely.) > Did I miss something here? It looks like several levels of discussion > passed by my news reader and disappeared into outer space. All I got is > seen below. > > If permanently fragmented files are usual, then fine in post-SP2. It's > just I'm not used to seeing them Yes - you missed most of the fun. Have a look here: http://www.microsoft.com/communities/newsgroups/en-us/default.aspx?dg=microsoft. public.windowsxp.general&tid=1523b2a6-3c9e-4bae-b3bb-439c4a903983&cat=&lang=&cr= &sloc=&p=1 Oh dear, I missed the lot. I'm going to answer as much as I can <<Do you have Windows Live Messenger installed? >> yes, but disabled. <<While having all files completely continguous might give you a warm feeling of satisfaction, having a few fragmentend files makes no measurable difference on the performance of your PC - so why worry?>> I'm amazed that people are saying that fragmenation makes not difference. I halved the response time of a laptop recently by defagging and it makes a noticeable difference to my PC. If what I have always understood fragmentation to be is still valid, which is bits of a file scattered around the disc, it can't do anything but slow the machine down. Although I'm ready to learn... <<Open Disk Defragmenter and click on Analyse. Select View Report and click on Save As and Save. Now find VolumeC.txt in your My Documents Folder and post a copy. Do this before running Disk Defragmenter as it is more informative. >> Defragging was done recently. If it's left a week or so there are dozens of files with 300+ fragments. Volume (C:) Volume size = 29.30 GB Cluster size = 4 KB Used space = 11.16 GB Free space = 18.14 GB Percent free space = 61 % Volume fragmentation Total fragmentation = 0 % File fragmentation = 1 % Free space fragmentation = 0 % File fragmentation Total files = 59,188 Average file size = 288 KB Total fragmented files = 178 Total excess fragments = 904 Average fragments per file = 1.01 Pagefile fragmentation Pagefile size = 720 MB Total fragments = 1 Folder fragmentation Total folders = 5,576 Fragmented folders = 3 Excess folder fragments = 3 Master File Table (MFT) fragmentation Total MFT size = 70 MB MFT record count = 65,130 Percent MFT in use = 90 % Total MFT fragments = 2 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fragments File Size Most fragmented files 130 8 MB \Documents and Settings\Office\Local Settings\Temporary Internet Files\Content.IE5\22G33NEB\Potterton_Gold_Combi_HE_Installation_and_Service_Instructions[1].pdf 63 3 MB \Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\Microsoft\Windows NT\NTBackup\catalogs51\38BA8544.V01 60 950 KB \System Volume Information\_restore{5D95AE1E-87A2-4EDF-B4E0-BDB0C9EDAB3F}\RP718\change.log 38 150 KB \Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\McAfee\MCLOGS\MISP\SiteAdv\SiteAdv002.log 37 150 KB \Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\McAfee\MCLOGS\MISP\SiteAdv\SiteAdv000.log 25 1 MB \Documents and Settings\Office\Local Settings\Temporary Internet Files\Content.IE5\22G33NEB\Potterton_Gold_Combi_HE_User_Guide[1].pdf 17 154 KB \Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\McAfee\MCLOGS\MISP\mcupdmgr\mcupdmgr001.log 17 65 KB \Documents and Settings\Office\Local Settings\Temp\WCESCOMM.LOG 12 53 KB \Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\McAfee\MCLOGS\MISP\mcupdmgr\mcupdmgr002.log 10 112 KB \Documents and Settings\Office\Local Settings\Temp\WCESMgr.log 10 143 KB \Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\McAfee\MCLOGS\MISP\mcmscsvc\mcmscsvc000.log 10 393 KB \WINDOWS\PCHealth\HelpCtr\DataColl\CollectedData_14284.xml 9 150 KB \Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\McAfee\MCLOGS\MISP\mcnasvc\mcnasvc000.log 9 397 KB \Documents and Settings\Office\My Documents\FinePrint files\AutoSave\Memo Style_2.fp 9 398 KB \Documents and Settings\Office\My Documents\FinePrint files\AutoSave\Memo Style_1.fp 8 29 MB \System Volume Information\_restore{5D95AE1E-87A2-4EDF-B4E0-BDB0C9EDAB3F}\RP718\snapshot\_REGISTRY_MACHINE_SOFTWARE 7 54 KB \WINDOWS\system32\wbem\Logs\wbemess.log 7 213 KB \WINDOWS\Prefetch\Layout.ini 6 213 KB \Documents and Settings\Office\My Documents\FinePrint files\AutoSave\Memo Style.fp 6 3 MB \Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\McAfee\HackerWatch\data\HwLocal.xdb 6 79 KB \Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\Microsoft\Windows NT\NTBackup\catalogs51\38BA8B9B.V01 6 157 KB \WINDOWS\PCHealth\HelpCtr\DataColl\CollectedData_14286.xml 6 234 KB \Documents and Settings\Office\My Documents\FinePrint files\AutoSave\Customer balances Apr 08 at 250508Acquire.fp 5 2 MB \WINDOWS\WindowsUpdate.log 5 100 KB \Documents and Settings\Office\Local Settings\Temporary Internet Files\Content.IE5\29H92LZU\fragmentStyle[1].css 5 100 KB \Documents and Settings\Office\Local Settings\Temporary Internet Files\Content.IE5\2GLOWPJO\fragmentStyle[1].css 5 88 KB \Documents and Settings\Office\Local Settings\Temporary Internet Files\Content.IE5\2GLOWPJO\script[1].js 5 100 KB \Documents and Settings\Office\Local Settings\Temporary Internet Files\Content.IE5\22G33NEB\fragmentStyle[1].css 5 39 KB \Documents and Settings\Office\Application Data\Microsoft\Outlook\OutlPrnt =================== <<If you're not actually having a problem with the way the computer is operating then I'd suggest not worrying too much about the defragger muttering over a couple of files. >> I am concerned that after installing SP3 something changed wrt defragmentation. I don't like change I can't explain - it makes me nervous. I've had too much trouble with PCs in times gone by to leave something like this. If a defragmenter is supposed to defragment and it doesn't there is something wrong. I want to know *how wrong*. Can I sleep at night or is there something going to pop up and bite me...? > Oh dear, I missed the lot. I'm going to answer as much as I can > [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > ready > to learn... *** I said "having a FEW fragmentend files makes no measurable *** difference". Try to measure the difference - you won't notice *** anything! > > Oh dear, I missed the lot. I'm going to answer as much as I can > > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > *** difference". Try to measure the difference - you won't notice > *** anything! The lap top had dozens of files - maybe hundreds - with 400+ fragments each on an XP system. My PC has dozens of files >300 fragments after a week. I would venture to suggest saying about the effects of fragmentation that there will be a proportionally greater impact on speed when regularly used files are highly fragmented (eg o/s and db files). I wouldn't expect to see a difference with a highly fragmented WP or spreadsheet file. What puzzles me is a note from the defragmenter about files left fragmented. That just does not seem right, and in the absense of the file names (even though the warning dialogue says the file names are in the report - but they are not) I'm stuck for wondering what's going on. It's like the garage saying "We serviced your car and the diagnostics say there is a broken wire. The cost of the service is..." So most people I would I think say, "So... which wire?" with the garage replying "Sorry, the diagnostics didn't say..." And I feel that Windows is doing that in this case. Stephen The reality is that there are so many scenarios that what suits one situation does not have a significant impact in another. Defragmenting should not be taken in isolation. You should always run Disk CleanUp ( or cCleaner ) before running Disk Defragmenter. The combination of the two will have an an impact but it will differ from one system to another. A point worth making is that a system which has limited RAM and CPU capacity may need all the help it can get to achieve an acceptable level of performance. The percentage improvement will be greater on computers in this situation than those with plenty of RAM and CPU capacity. How much RAM and what is the CPU on your system? Looking at your Disk Defragmenter Report my interpretation is that not a lot is wrong. Do you run Disk CleanUp before you run Disk Defragmenter? One limitation Disk CleanUp has is that to be more effective it needs to be run in each User Profile where there is more than one user active. An alternative to Disk CleanUp is cCleaner (freeware) which does a more thorough job than Disk CleanUp. Disk CleanUp has to be run for each user profile, whereas cCleaner only needs to be run once. http://www.ccleaner.com/ccdownload.asp http://www.ccleaner.com/ With any cleaner you need to proceed with caution. To be safe you should create a restore point before using cCleaner. cCleaner also offers backup before removal. When using cCleaner think twice before checking Autocomplete Form History under Internet Explorer. You do get a warning but this one has irritating consequences. You may need to restore your system's recollection of passwords after use so keep a record off computer so that they can easily be re-entered. Leave the Scan for Issues option alone. cCleaner does not remove restore points. You need to use Disk CleanUp for this. Select Start, All Programs, Accessories, System Tools, Disk CleanUp, More Options, System Restore and remove all but the latest System Restore point. It is noticeable that you are running McAfee. What version would that be? You do seem to have a lot of logs running? Hope this helps. Gerry ~~~~ FCA Stourport, England Enquire, plan and execute ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>> Oh dear, I missed the lot. I'm going to answer as much as I can >>> [quoted text clipped - 40 lines] > replying "Sorry, the diagnostics didn't say..." And I feel that > Windows is doing that in this case. Stephen Methinks a lot of people have not been taking this issue seriously... I have. I too had this issue and tried all sorts of methods to rid myself of the nasty red block to no avail so I thought I'd get a bit drastic having read various articles on the subject and guess what... I managed to solve it, I now have a solution for you that works. Download two programs, both free I hasten to add, Eraser and Ultimate Defragmenter and run them both in that order. I would add links o them but it's just as easy to Google them. Eraser securly wipes the free space on your drive then Ultimate Defragger does exactly what it says on the packet..... Problem solved. Hope this helps you... it did me. And BTW I scanned both programs with A2 Squared and AVG and they're both clean so no worries there either. > > > Oh dear, I missed the lot. I'm going to answer as much as I can > > > [quoted text clipped - 36 lines] > I think say, "So... which wire?" with the garage replying "Sorry, the > diagnostics didn't say..." And I feel that Windows is doing that in this case. > Oh dear, I missed the lot. I'm going to answer as much as I can > > <<Do you have Windows Live Messenger installed? >> > yes, but disabled. Doesn't matter. Try doing the defrag in Safe Mode under the Administrator account and you should be able to see what isn't being defragged. I have installed Windows Live Messenger on five computers and all of them had the defrag problem you refer to after installing Windows Live Messenger. It's ironic that WLM is an MS product. Alias > <<While having all files completely continguous might give you > a warm feeling of satisfaction, having a few fragmentend files [quoted text clipped - 119 lines] > something wrong. I want to know *how wrong*. Can I sleep at night or is there > something going to pop up and bite me...? > > Oh dear, I missed the lot. I'm going to answer as much as I can > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > all of them had the defrag problem you refer to after installing Windows > Live Messenger. It's ironic that WLM is an MS product. Ok I'll try. Thx. S |
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